Heard of Ian Paisley?

[ July 27, 2002, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]

 

Warm Christian greetings!

As a British citizen I have a reasonable knowledge of Ian Paisley. I have never met him but have heard Gospel sermons of his on tape.
I have also read some of his Gospel/Bible ministry books.

My own view is that his Gospel preaching and Bible ministry is outstanding. There is no doubting that he is truly Born Again and has a deep love for God's word. I am not entirely happy with him denouncing the Pope in the European parliament as I feel it is counter productive and I certainly don't agree with preachers being involved in politics.

However, before we line up to condemn him at least try to understand his actions in the light of several things:

1) His father, James Paisley, was one of Carson's volunteers and signed the Ulster covenant with his blood.

2) He has lost friends to the IRA (including Rev Robert Bradford)

3) He has first hand knowledge of the ethnic cleansing that has been perpetrated against protestants living near the border for the last 30 years.

I'm not saying that I agree with everthing he has done but I appeal to you to try and put yourself in his position before writing him off as a "nut case". You experienced a dreadful terrorist act last September - the people of Northern Ireland, both Catholic and Protestant have had it for the last 30 plus years.

Kind regards

Robert J Hutton

 

I don't know what goes on in the dark musty recesses of his blackened heart, so he may very well be. It's not up to me to decide that so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

However, the next logical question is: If he really is born again, why is he fillied with so much hatred?

Why has he fought so hard against the GFA and against reform of the RUC (which more than 30% of Protestants support) when we are called to be agents of reconciliation?

While this is certainly sad, how many people have lost friends and family members to the loyalist groups he aligns himself with, the RUC or the occupying British forces, yet have not tried to deny Protestants basic human rights.

Such as?

Whatever the reason for his actions, they're no less wrong.

Yes. Sept. 11 and the response to hundreds and hundreds of years of British oppression and injustice are exactly the same thing.

[ July 27, 2002, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]

 

I don't get it. Here is a guy who has made a career out of inciting his followers to violence against others...

And the response by some here is...

Hey, it's ok, he's a fundamentalist!

He preaches a great sermon!

He's right, the Pope is the antichrist!

But you have to understand...!

I'm sure that if this guy were Islam, Catholic, Mormon, or whatever your personal bias chooses, he would be roundly condemned and judged to be "not saved" and proof that his entire church is corrupt.

But hey, look at his beliefs, he's a "fundamentalist" so it's ok!

 

Warm Christian greetings!

I feel that "Smoke eater" has misunderstood what I was trying to say. I do not take any political line regarding N. Ireland. Being an evangelist I am avowedly a-political and have no desire to debate Ulster or any other political "hot potato".

I am simply saying that it is an over-simplification to write off Ian Paisley without trying to understand the situation he has grown up in. As an old Indian proverb says "do not judge anyone until you have walked a mile in his moccasins".

Kind regards

Robert J Hutton

 

You guys just don't get it. Is that ever a true statement! Check your protestant commentaries. Protestants have been saying the same things for centuries and your just now coming to this realization?? "The pope is the antichrist." Not exactly a new revelation among Protestants. But something good to slander with Paisley with. Paisley site is tame compared to:

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/
DHK

 

It seems like the web page in dispute offers several clearly-stated points that are either facts or lies. I see no reason to doubt them, since they seem consistent with the behavior of other hate-mongering bigots who prevert Christianity into a tool for promulgating their ignorance.

Joshua

 

No, I understand and I respect your opinion.

I agree to an extent but, whatever his background, how does that excuse his actions?

I'm still interested to know what "ethnic clensing you" were talking about.

[ July 27, 2002, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]

 

DHK, are you being deliberately obtuse? This has nothing to do with "the Pope is the anitchrist". It has everything to do with Paisley encouraging, inciting and calling upon his followers to do physical harm, even to the point of death, against others.

Do you condemn Paisley and his followers for carrying out violence against Catholics? A simple yes or no will do. (not holding my breath)

Still waiting for your answer as to exactly what is the "misinformation" on the website I offered. (also not holding my breath, but you know me, I'll keep asking you in post after post)

 

DHK, you do not choose your ground well. It would seem that to you a question as to degrees granted and validity of ordination is of greater importance than one of implication in violence.

Such a pity.

Added as an after thought: What's the big deal over BJU anyway? Paisley merely has an honorary degree from BJU. And you must admit that receiving a doctoral degree in just seven months is at least a little unusual.

[ July 27, 2002, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: trying2understand ]

 

???

Since when? Bob Jones is held up by most Christians as a perfect example of ignorance and bigotry run amok in the guise of education. I actually thought the comments about Paisley's "credentials" were the most damning, since they immediately put him in the category of fringe lunatic.

Joshua

 

Smokeater open your eyes and do some reading. I gave a list of commentaries in a previous post. Turn to Revelation 17, and check out what Matthew Henry, Barnes, Jamieson Faucett and Brown, John Gill,and dozens of other have to say. These are standard commentaries found on the web.
DHK

 

???

Since when? Bob Jones is held up by most Christians as a perfect example of ignorance and bigotry run amok in the guise of education. I actually thought the comments about Paisley's "credentials" were the most damning, since they immediately put him in the category of fringe lunatic.
Joshua</font>[/QUOTE]I assure you Josh,
Among liberals and homosexual Bob Jones is not held up as a God-honoring institution. Among conservative born-again Christians it is.
But what to expect from liberals who don't know their Bible, but slander and name-calling.
DHK

[ July 27, 2002, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

Pity you!! You were the one that chose to post the URL to the site--a site that contained misinformation and slander. I point it out, and you say you that I am more concerned about his reputation than his politics. A little bit two faced are we?? I say you, as a Catholic are a little bit more concerned about the Catholic's reputation in all of this than the peace process or about Paisley. The IRA is the greatest stumbling block to peace in that area and you know it. A Catholic terrorist group--another Al Qaeda! What more can the Catholic church offer us, besides perverted priests, and a history of killing Bible-believing Christians throughout the centuries, the Spanish Inquistion, etc.
DHK

 

Take a breath, DHK.

This thread is about Ian Paisley. I didn't start it, I merely provided a little information. As it stands, you have not shown anything on that site to be untrue. You keep saying it is "misinformation" but all you can offer is they said he got an honorary degree from BJU. Where is the misinformation there?

I have said nothing about the Catholic Church in this thread.

I ask again, do you condemn Paisley for inciting others to violence? A simply yes or no, without excuses for it, will do.