Featured Heavenly Incentives with Earthly Images

Hebrews 11:5 states theat Enoch was translated so that he did not see death. The term death means sepration, the greek used for death in Hebrews 11:5 is qa/natov Thanatos wehich means:

the death of the body


that separation (whether natural or violent) of the soul and the body by which the life on earth is ended

Revmwc quote:
This is physical death for us, when we die physically the body goes to sleep but the soul and spirit live on. This is what Enoch did not see, for He was translated "metatiðqhmi - Metatithemi = to transpose (two things, one of which is put in place of the other)
to transfer
to change
to transfer one's self or suffer one's self to be transferred
to go or pass over
to fall away or desert from one person or thing to another

He had been changed. When Paul says we shall be changed an entirely different word is used, for that change. Allasso is used by Paul for the believer being changed and it means "to change, to exchange one thing for another, to transform" we will be transformed at Christ coming for us, Enoch was changed He was transposed or He passed over into eternity."

More of the meaning.
with the implied idea of future misery in hell

the power of death

since the nether world, the abode of the dead, was conceived as being very dark, it is equivalent to the region of thickest darkness i.e. figuratively, a region enveloped in the darkness of ignorance and sin

metaph., the loss of that life which alone is worthy of the name,
the misery of the soul arising from sin, which begins on earth but lasts and increases after the death of the body in hell
the miserable state of the wicked dead in hell

in the widest sense, death comprising all the miseries arising from sin, as well physical death as the loss of a life consecrated to God and blessed in him on earth, to be followed by wretchedness in hell

 

Where are you?

Col 1:13 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

What is that inheritance? How do we know that we are, meet to be?
What does "in light," mean? How are we in light?

The Holy Spirit, Titus 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
That is how we are "in light", being in Christ and is also how we are, "meet to be partakers".
Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs (that is to receive an inheritance) according to the hope of (Which is) eternal life.

Col. 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness,(Death) and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son: That is into the light, eternal life in the kingdom of his dear Son, which you inherit at the resurrection/change.

1 Cor. 15:50,51 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.

You have been translated, in Christ, the faith that did come just as Enoch was translated by faith, before the faith came. See Galatians 3:23-25.

Enoch is dead awaiting the return of Jesus and the resurrection Hebrews 11:39,40 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Jesus of Nazareth is the only one who has received the inheritance which came by a promise, (G3;19 Wherefore then the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave to Abraham (and his one seed Christ V16) by promise.

What is the inheritance that came by a promise God made for the seed which was to come through Abraham, and also, the only begotten of the Father?

The Promise: In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
The one seed to whom the promise was made, the Christ: The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Eternal Life is the grace of God which comes through the faith and there is a specific moment in time when, the faith did come. And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost. HE DIED

 

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

he led captivity captive, (Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.) And because he Jesus is the firstborn from the dead, by resurrection, death is led captive, not those who have died. The people with whom Jesus is building his church have been going through the gates (death) of Hades from the beginning but the gates of Hades (death) shall not prevail against her, because in a moment in the twinkling of an eye at the last trump. Then
then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where thy sting? O Hades, where thy victory?

Why was he then able to give gifts to men? In what manner do we receive these gifts.

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

The gifts come by the Holy Spirit which Jesus had to receive from the Father.

BTW Where does LIFE come from? The Spirit is Life.

 

Paul makes it real clear here:


2 Corinthains 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

While we at home or alive in the body, we are absent from the Lord. So you believe Christ to be in Hades just as all who die are, yet Stephen said Christ was in Heavne seated by His father. If Christ is there we too are with Him for Paul says to be absent from the body and be present with the Lord. When we die our souls goes to be with the Lord. 1 Thes. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
When Christ returns for the Bride He will bring the souls of the Church, the Bride with Him and their bodies will rise and meet Him and their souls. Pretty clear cut.

 

1. Both.
2. There is the faith that saves, and there is the faith you live by after you are saved. Heb. 11 is all about the faith a believer lives by after he is savd.

Yes, they were quoting Hab. 2:4. They left out "his" because it was not in the Hebrew original.

 

Well yes, you are correct. I guess I wasn't thinking too theologically when I wrote "Heaven."

 

I think he did not taste either physical or spiritual death, personally. I think it's hard to prove either way, though. And I'm not convinced that anyone had a resurrection body until Christ did. But this is all kind of a nebulous area in theology, where the Bible doesn't say per se, but we are forced to make assumptions.

Gasp. No, not the "Hassan Chop." Anything but that!

 

נָת  אֱמ
b·amunth·u
in·faith-of·him

My high school education isn't of much help so I have to "by faith" trust others.

Would you say that above from scripture4all.org is incorrect? Followed by,

יִחְיֶה
ichie
he-shall-live

 

If "we" are at home in the body "we" are absent from the Lord.

And because "we" do not want to be absent from the lord, ""We" groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with "our" house which is from heaven:
If so be that being clothed "we" shall not be found naked."

Can I safely assume the last thing Paul wanted was to be found naked?
In order for "we" to not be found naked we have to put on "our" house from heaven. Described by Paul as, "mortality might be swallowed up of life".
That mortality might put on immortality.

Exactly when does that take place?

1 Cor 15:53-55 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where thy sting? O Hades, where thy victory?

The mortal soul, the soul that sins it shall die, must put on immortality and this corruptible body has to be changed to a spiritual incorruptible body.

When you have been clothed in your house from heaven whether alive or dead you will then be with the Lord.

I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, ye may be also.

For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].

 

See if this will help.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

this is salvation faith we are justified in the Fathers eyes because of our faith in Christ.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

2 Corinthians 5:7
(For we walk by faith, not by sight

The life we live is a life of Faith, we walk by faith in our daily life we have faith that God will get us through.

We Rest in the Promises of God. We Trust (have faith) in all His promises for our daily life and we have Faith in Christ as our redeemer.

 

Take your time John and research the scriptures of post 42 with the context of any commentary in that post and see if the faith spoken of in Hebrews 11 is, the faith that was to come of Gal 3:23 (Before the faith came)

The just shall live by his faith OR in faith of him he shall live.

And after the faith did come of verse 25 Gal 3 no longer is one under the law but are now under grace, therefore;

The just shall live by faith.

I believe that is why Paul wrote this:

Seeing one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through (the, in the Greek) faith.

By faith to come
Through the faith (that did come)

 

1 Thessalonians tells us when we are clothed with the incorruptable. Capter 4: 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

The souls of those who bodies are sleeping (dead) will God bring with Him and verse 16 the dead shall rise first and that will be an incorruptable body, and then 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

We who are alive at His coming will put off the corruptible body and put on the incorruptable one.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words

Why would we find comfort in these word if Paul was not telling us that those souls of the folks who asleep will come with Him, so where are those souls with Him in Heaven.

John 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

We know the soul doesn't sleep Jesus told us that, Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Both died and were buried but their souls ended up in two very disteinct places with a great gulf fixed.
One Jesus refered to as being in Abrahams Bosom the otehr was in torments. Two distinct places and we know Jesus told the malfactor that they would be in Paradise they were going to this same place with the great gulf fixed. But paul has made it clear that souls of believers today are now in Heaven with Christ, so some where the change took place. Some where the blood was shed that paid for the sins of those in Paradise and they too were taken to heaven.

 

Good job. I checked back and this is correct. I was wrong. But remind me. What is your point here?

 

I've got to go to a baseball game for my grandson. May be later or tomorrow. Shoot it may be tomorrow where you are.

 

And that baseball game is extremely imortant! :thumbs:

We're actually on furlough in IL right now. Check out "Blogging Our Furlough" in the Missions/Evangelism forum of the BB.

 

So you are telling me even though Paul the soul did not want to be found naked he understood when he died and the earthly house of the tabernacle of him rotted away the soul Paul would be naked until Jesus returns with his naked soul and resurrects an incorruptible house to clothe his naked soul with?

When the rich man in Hades lifted up his eyes he was being resurrected unless the naked soul of him like his corrupting body had eyes and a tongue.
Send Lazarus: neither if one may rise out of the dead will they be
persuaded.'. He also was being resurrected or his naked soul also had fingers like his corrupting body.

Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

Lazarus the once living soul was now dead/sleepeth. The body of the once living soul Lazarus was beginning to stink for Lazarus had been dead four days.

Lazarus was dead.
Lazarus was raised from the dead.

 

The Spirit and Soul are living when the body is dead, some teach that somehow God gives the soul a temporary body not sure of that. The Body is in the ground the soul and spirit are very much functioning, after death. Tehy can be seen and recognized evidently from what Jesus said, but that body is decaying and corrupting.
Lazarus was dead and he was ressusitated not ressurected. For he died sometime yet again and His soul and spirit are in the presence of Christ his body still in the grave. We will not receive our incorruptable ressurection body until the ressurection occurs, there fore we absent from the body and in the presence of Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord

Paaul says at death we are absent from t he body, and at the same exact time we are present with the Lord. How we are clothed or how our Spirit looks we aren't told but we know from what Jesus says we are recognizable. The rich man it says was buried but opened his eyes in hell and felt as if he had a tongue and fingers, we don't have a really clear way ofd knowing what happens but we have this picture.

 

Rev

According to the word of God.

Did God raise Jesus from the dead?
Was the soul of Jesus resurrected from Hades?

Does the living soul even die?

[A] And Jehovah God layeth a charge on the man, saying, `Of every tree of the garden eating thou dost eat; and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.'

And the serpent saith unto the woman, `Dying, ye do not die, for God doth know that in the day of your eating of it -- your eyes have been opened, and ye have been as God, knowing good and evil.'

One or the other, either [A] or was lying. Who was lying?

When Jesus was made sin for us, he who knew no sin did God apply [A] or to him?

Being from the foundation of the world it was determined for the Lamb to be slain, die the above death of [A]. Why? What good purpose could there possibly be in a dead Lamb. The spirit which had made it a living Lamb would have returned to the One who gave it. The body of the Lamb would have rotted away. And the Lamb would be dead.

Was there any hope for the Lamb?
What was the only hope given for the dead Lamb?

Did the Lamb have a Father? What does it even mean to have a Father?

Paul, an apostle -- not from men, nor through man, but through Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who did raise him out of the dead --

Was that in bold actually done by one of the above to the other above?

 

John see post 58 to revmac

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

In my opinion. By question, Is not?

saved, eternal life given by grace of God the Father to the Lamb, (who was made to be sin, and slain from the foundation of the world) because of (through) the faith of the Lamb, the author and finisher of the faith, by obedience of faith unto death even the death on the cross which came with the agony of resisting unto blood, striving against sin in the garden.

Before the faith came. After the faith did come. The faith was the sinless Jesus the Christ, the Lamb dying the cross with only the hope of eternal life which God has promised. The inheritance (eternal life) was by promise. Jesus was the seed of the promise.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The resurrected Jesus receiving the promise (eternal life) is the faith.
The substance of what was hoped for and the evidence of the unseen.

Now prior to the verses about our house from heaven which I said could be a metaphor for eternal life is the last verse of chapter 4: While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen [are] temporal; but the things which are not seen [are] eternal.

Compare that to the evidence of the unseen in the definition of faith.

I do believe we should believe yet I do not believe our faith in, is relative.
The resurrected Christ is the substance and evidence of the faith and it is Christ (Faith) in us the hope of Glory.

Chapter 3 of Gal begins with the question of how one was given the Spirit.
By the works of the Law or by the hearing of the above Faith. Per Acts 2:32.33 After and by being raised from the dead, for I believe the renewing of the Holy Spirit is regeneration, Jesus received the promise of the Holy Spirit and then and only then was it given to us.

We received the Spirit by the hearing of Faith.

I am looking forward on your thoughts about my thoughts.


BTW they lost the game 10-6

 

You seem to put a lot of stock in the deceiver in your "B" question.

But I have a Question that might clear it up.

First your yes, Jesus was raised from being physically dead. Did His soul go to Paradise, He said He would that day be in Paradise so yes His souls was raised from Paradise where was Paradise located? In Hades but the abode of Paradise or Abrahams bosom. Keep in mind what He told Mary Magdeline that morning touch me not for I have not yet ascended to my Father. Later we see Him allowing Himself to be touched. He even offered for Thomas to touch His hands and side. He had a ressurected physical body that His soul entered into. So when did He ascend? Between seeing Mary in the Garden and appearing to the disciples? Remember there were others who came up out of the grave at that time. During that time it is possible Jesus took the blood of sacrifice and presented it to the Father and brought the souls of those in Paradise to Heaven. Making the transition for them.