Featured Hebrews 11

The problem is assuming that "wrath" in God is similar to wrath in us. You define God's attributes in an all-too-human way.

Light and darkness are not necessarily polar opposites (they are in application, perhaps, but not in essence). Darkness is the absence of light. Darkness is not a natural effect that is equal to light. Rather, darkness is what happens when there is no light. It is not as if two forces were fighting for dominance. There is one dominant force--Light. When that dominant force is absent, there is darkness.

In God, His wrath is never capricious or arbitrary--it is always expressed in opposition to sin. God opposes sin and sinners--violently, even. But it isn't because He likes to burn ants with magnifying glasses. Instead, it is because sin impugns His holiness. He must "react" against sin in order to uphold His holiness. Sin must be punished, therefore God's wrath--His definite opposition of and to sin--must come out.

But, there is more.

To say "God wanted Adam to gain the knowledge of good and evil" and imply that God wanted Adam to experience these things through the Fall is very problematic. Sin, or evil, is that which is not in accordance with God. In fact, the basic definition of "sin" is "to miss the mark." We don't measure up to God's own perfection. We don't measure up because we willfully choose our own desires over His. In essence, we are rebels against God and our rebellion is sin.

Now, Adam had a knowledge of good and evil before the Fall. Adam and Eve knew what good was--obedience to God. They knew what evil (or sin) was--disobedience to God. What happens in the Fall is not Adam and Eve learning good and evil. Instead, they experience good and evil in the Fall. There is a world of difference.

Also, when Satan is tempting Eve and he says "you will be like God knowing good and evil," the nuance of the language and context here means that Satan is saying to Eve (and Adam) you will be like God being a law unto yourself. This autonomy ("self-law" or "self-rule") is the essence of all sin. It is the idolatry of self whereby we dethrone God from His rightful place as Creator, Law Giver, etc...

The Archangel

 

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Gen 1:1


And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. from Gen 1:2

Would it be fair to say that verse 1 would require the presence of God?

Would it be fair to say that in verse two, God in wrath had departed from the earth thus the absence of God had left the earth in the darkness because of sin?

The darkness being evil?

Beginning in the last part of verse 2 into 3 God returning as light, stated as good in verse 4, to begin to deal with sin, evil, darkness and death?

Good and evil are divided, light and darkness, life and death, God and Satan, the serpent devil and man is yet to be created in the image of God. Where is the death of Genesis 2:17 going to come from?

Why is God creating man? Was the creation of the man relative to the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world?

What does God know the man created in his own image is going to do?
Did Satan know what the man would do or was he through the deception of Eva bringing temptation to the man in the form of the lust of the flesh? See James 1:13-15

 

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

You hit the nail on the head. What ever people say darkness is not evil, It is created by God. Death earthly is not evil we all will die. To die without God in our life is evil.

It is what people do in darkness and in someone dieing do with it that makes it evil. They think they are hiding in darkness but you can only hide it from people you cannot hide from God.

If someone I love dies for any reason it is not evil my seed being choked out and turning away from God because of it is evil.

 

You quoted a definition of "wrath" (anger, the natural disposition, temper, character) and applied it to God.

In the above quote, you, essentially, equate God's wrath with an emotional human wrath. God's wrath is not emotional; it is a natural expression of His Holiness in the face of sin.

Justice, in this case, doesn't even enter into the equation. Of course God's wrath is always just, but that isn't the point. You've ascribed a human-like wrath to God (saying it is "natural disposition," "temper," and/or "character"). God's wrath is none of these.

The wrath of God itself is neither a part of nor a function of His character. Again, God's wrath is the expression of His Holiness in the face of sin. Hence the illustration of light and darkness.

You obviously didn't realize that I was using light and darkness as an illustration, an analogy, of God's wrath. Perhaps I didn't do enough to explain it properly, however.

Light and darkness are not two fundamental things. Light is a fundamental thing and darkness is the absence of light. Similarly, God's wrath is not a fundamental thing. It is His holy and just reaction against sin.

I am not in anyway saying that the Fall was not in God's plan; it clearly is.

God ordained the Fall. Adam exercises his will. These two things are not at odds. There is a great difference between that which God ordains and that which He decrees.

Judas, however, is referred to as the "Son of Destruction." So, he was the one who would betray Jesus from the beginning. But, he still does so of his own free will. Again, the ordination of God and the free will of man are not at odds.

Again, you miss the point because it adds greatly to the discussion. The "fullness of knowledge" they didn't have is what they should have kept. If, as Proverbs says, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" then fearing Him and obeying Him is itself the fullness of knowledge.

Sin is experienced through disobedience (in either omission or commission, and it's commission in this case). Adam and Eve disobeyed because they wanted what they thought (and what the serpent tempted them with) they wanted--fullness of knowledge. In "exchanging the truth of God for a lie," they did not receive fullness of knowledge, they only received the experiential knowledge of sin. In reality, they had the fullness of knowledge in obedience to God; they lost it in their disobedience.

The Archangel