Hebrews 6:1-8

[HankD]

While I obviously don't agree, you made good points in your responses to my post Allan.

The interpretation of Hebrews 6 has always been a debatable area of Scripture.

While I focused on individuals in general we all should remember that this Book was written to "Hebrews" many of which were quite religious and trusting in themselves that they were righteous based upon their day to day religious deeds.

Hebrews 6 could also apply to a religious Catholic (for instance) who did not realize the benefit of the finished work of Christ. This individual would have the gospel of salvation by grace through faith alone presented to them, they would understand yet still not receive Christ.

Or it would also apply to an individual who "appears" to believe the gospel but later "backs off" and returns to their former state.

Matthew 13

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.​

Paul later assures these believing Hebrews that even though he is speaking to them in this manner this is not the case with them:

Hebrews 6
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

Hebrews 10

38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.​

Another point that I would like to rebut, in the case of those who have once rejected the gospel:

No that can not be at all brother. It states that it is 'impossible' for that to happen. Therefore it can not be possible.

With God all things are possible.

And a couple of question concerning Hebrews 6:3

Hebrews 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

What will God permit? Simple : those things in verse 2.

What then does verse 4 point back to: same thing, those things in verse 2.

You don't need to respond, I know you have your own view (which I respect).
Just a few points to ponder.

In Christ
HankD

 

[Allan]

You don't need to respond, I know you have your own view (which I respect).
Just a few points to ponder.

In Christ
HankD

Hey no problem

I respect your view as well and was curious about those certain points I gave which 'seemed' to clash with your view of it being the presentation of the gospel and their acceptance or rejection. Like I said also, I had never heard that version before and find it interesting

May the peace and Love of our God dwell richly in your brother and your loved ones :thumbs:

 

[gb93433]

The book of Hebrews was written to believers who were vacillating back and forth between Judaism and Christianity. They were not solid in their faith yet. In those days there was a price to pay in following Christ. It could have meant that your business was boycotted or and possibly you could be executed.

Heb. 6 has nothing to do with eternal security.

 

[gb93433]

Not all commentators agree that these believers were going back to Judaism, but rather they were tempted to hide their Christian faith under their Jewishness, so to speak, since they were Jewish believers.

Excellent point. However the result is the same in that they are not strong in their faith and are not trusting God. We have seen examples of that in the past under communism as well in church history in the early church.

 

[Allan]

1. Water baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit

2. Baptism of Holy Spirit

Two baptisms, consistent with reference to "doctrines of baptisms".

Laying on of hands: The question is not if Christians are "laying on hands" today, but were they in the first century which would require teaching conerning the issue.

Acts 6:6 "And these they brought before the apostles; and after praying, they laid their hands on them."

Acts 13:2 "And while they were ministring to the Lord and fasting the Holy Spirit said, 'Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them. (v.3) Then, when they had fasted and prayed and laid their hands on them, they sent them away."

peace to youraying:

Yes, but it is not talking about church doctrines in general but those 'foundational' doctrines were those to which new believers were taught.

I agree that there are doctrines with regard to baptisms on the whole but the later (Holy Spirit baptism) is not one that can be 'proven' to have been intrensic to the doctrines taught new believers. I have found no sourses (not that they might not be out there) who does anything more than speculate on that issue. So to 'that' I could give you, just for the sake of argument.

However the 'laying on hands' was not something that is considered a or one of the foundational doctrines in the NT in which new believers were to be grounded. However what does equate without any problem or question is those things which relate to the Jewish law which I quoted from 'Wiersbe' previously:

Instead of going ahead, however, these believing Jews were tempted to lay again “a foundation” that is described in vv. 2-3. The six items in this foundation do not refer to the Christian faith as such, but rather to the basic doctrines of Judaism. Facing the fires of persecution, these Hebrew Christians were tempted to “fall by the wayside” by forsaking their confession of Christ (4:14 and 10:23). They had already slipped back into “babyhood” (5:11-14); now they were prone to go back to Judaism, thus laying again the foundation that had prepared the way for Christ and the full light of Christianity. They had repented from dead works, referring to works under the law (9:14). They had shown faith toward God. They believed the doctrine of washings (not baptism, but the Levitical washings; see Mark 7:4-5 and Heb. 9:10). Laying on of hands refers to the Day of Atonement, Lev. 16:21; and every true Jew held to a future resurrection and judgment (see Acts 24:14-15). If they did not move forward, they would be moving backward, which meant forsaking the substance of Christianity for shadows of Judaism.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Is it possible that parapiptomai used here is synominous with apostênai apo theou zôntos used in Hebrews 3:12?

 

[HankD]

Hey no problem

I respect your view as well and was curious about those certain points I gave which 'seemed' to clash with your view of it being the presentation of the gospel and their acceptance or rejection. Like I said also, I had never heard that version before and find it interesting

May the peace and Love of our God dwell richly in your brother and your loved ones :thumbs:

Thanks Allan, I see from your picture you have been blessed with a beautiful family.

In a nutshell, I believe that Hebrews was written to just that "Hebrews".

Some true believers, some not.
Paul is simply saying "fish or cut bait" (so to speak), "make up your minds".

Asking (in effect), have you entered into His rest?

Apparently most were religious folk complacent/satisfied with Judaism who either rejected the gospel of Jesus Christ or simply ignored it not realizing the importance of entering into His rest and/or believed on Christ but were still practicing Judaism.

Apparently the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple had not yet occurred since these events were not refered to in order to jolt them out of their apathy.

This is the message of Hebrews, to saved or unsaved Jews, either go on to salvation or maturity, enter into His rest.

Otherwise you may be (or become) of that class of people who will be unable to do so in the future.

Hebrews 3
7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

​

Acts 13

39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;
41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

Again, in a nutshell, no matter how "religious" they are, those who back off into perdition and do not enter into His rest, were never believers in the first place even if they started out under the "Old Covenant".

It was empty ritual.

Religious but unsaved who put their stamp of approval on what they are by rejecting the gospel of grace and faith apart from the law.

Can they yet be saved?

Only "if God permits".

2 Timothy 2
23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

HankD​

 

[BaptistBob]

It seems to me that the book is written to believers at risk of loss of faith, although the author seems to suggest that the risk is slight at that moment in time.

My favorite book on Hebrews is David DeSilva's Perseverance in Gratitude: A Socio-Rhetorical Commentary on the Epistle "To the Hebrews".