Hebrews 6:4-6?

am I wrong in adding that one must be in grace before there is any chance of falling from? Somewhere I read many have tasted but some found it sweet and to others it was bitter...

 

It says it is impossible to renew him again unto repentance. He must of got there or it would not be renew.

made partakers of the Holy Ghost

They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost. I read where someone in the world wanted to buy the Holy Ghost and what the Lord said to him. The world never have had the Holy Ghost. You are either in or out you can't be "lukewarm" and partakers of the Holy Ghost.

 

I'm sorry, but nobody can just read their Bible and come up with that doctrine. Have you by any chance, been reading (or have read) ONE BOOK RIGHTLY DIVIDED: THE KEY TO UNDERSTANDING THE BIBLE BY DR. DOUGLAS STAUFFER (2000, McCowen Mills Publishers), the works of Dave Reese, or any of Peter Ruckman's teachings on dispensationalism? These men teach a form of hyper-dispensationalism that is NOT Biblical.

 

Really? I am a follower of Christ Jesus from heaven. Who did Christ last speak about justification of the believer? One guess is all you get.

When you read Acts and the Epistles of Paul you find what you say with feeling, such as a "curse word", the gospel of the terrible hyper-dispensationalism. Should we not by "hyper" about the dispensational gospel that Christ gave to Paul? I don't call you with vindictiveness an under achieving "dispensationalist". I believe you are learning as you study His Word. Paul could not comprehend it all in one sitting. Christ got him away to an Arabian desert, away from the Gentile and his own people, just like God wanted Abram away from any outside influence, or input from others. There is a more perfect way, and we can find it in Acts, and the Epistles of Paul, who says he is my Apostle. Doesn't mean those today that don't fully understand his gospel won't be in the "kingdom", but we should believe Damascus Road did happen, and since it did, it has a purpose to it. The Cross had a purpose, and Pentecost had a purpose. For we today His purpose is Damascus Road. The "more perfect way".

It is as old as the hills. To understand anything we must use the 5 W's, and the How of it. Hebrews 6:4-6 is a good proving ground. "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5. And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

I believe Paul did write the book of Hebrews (when-Apostles still lived & Jerusalem and Temple still existed, there was a "Kingdom Church" belief by some), and will not argue that point here. To whom is the Book of Hebrews written? One of the "W's" is doing double duty here. The who wrote it is Paul, and the who it is written to is the Hebrew people, Israel God's very own nation He chose for Himself. Why-"impossible receivers of the Holy Ghost that fall away to renew to repentance" This Book is written to who - the "Kingdom Church", for the "kingdom was at hand". What we see is a glimpse of the "millennium". This is the gospel to those of (where) Temple worship in Jerusalem, the Pentecostal Jewish church, those of the circumcision gospel, that had been "enlighted, had tasted of the heavenly gift, and had received the Holy Ghost.

This settled, Paul wrote only one book specifically to the Hebrew Nation of God. How do we know this? Look at all of his Epistles', and we can tell there is only one (1) written to those of Temple worship in Jerusalem, whether they are of the "law and the prophets", or the gospel of John the Baptist. If we wish to argue about this then take it up with Peter. He will tell you why Paul wrote the Book, and why we are to believe the "dispensational" gospel of Paul.II Peter 3:15-16, "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16. As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

Peter tells vividly why he writes to those of the "circumcision gospel". Peter says listen to this "hyper dispensationalist". Peter says as he does in Acts 2:22 "Ye men of Israel" if you know what is good for you believe what Paul tells you in his Book to you, Hebrews 6. Don't any of you remember what happened to Ananias and his wife Sapphira in that first year of Pentecost? Don't you know our "circumcision" gospel has always been we must endure until the end? This is what Paul is telling you in His one (1) book to you.

Here is hyper-dispensational understanding of the Book of Hebrews, including 6:4-6. These Jewish believers were justified byfaith, and those that are saved by faith must endure until the end. They are to read Hebrews 11 which shows when (at the beginning) by faith began, and when Justification through faith began, and when it became effective. It began at the Cross, and became known to man after Damascus Road. This is some of that wisdom Christ Jesus gave to Paul, that Peter tells wants all to know.

All of the Bible is written for us, and some is written to us today, and has our name on it, addressed to "Gentile or Jew - It is from Your Apostle Paul. Christ said send it To YOU".

 

So you don't believe in internal security?

 

Does U mean this?
So you don't believe in ETERNAL security OF THE BELIEVER?

Does U mean this?
I believe in "taking" the Scriptures literally as possible. That's why I reject
such things as INITIAL salvation (JUSTIFICATION)
by works, KJVO, and regenerational baptism.

 

We're all entitled to our opinion, but we are not to go against what the Holy Spirit interprets for us. If we accept Him how can we reject Him? He is not into divorces today. Are we not already in the Body of Christ, awaiting that day? We are Not Waiting for that "Kingdom Church" to come. We have arrived before that can happen. What you have committed to Him, He will keep. "For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day", II Timothy 1:12.

I don't understand how you can believe (if you do) that once you are sealed in by the Holy Ghost, He will then break that seal of Grace as you came through the faith of Jesus Christ to the Father. You are speaking of the Impossible.

It is OK to "backslide", just as long as we don't "slide" too far? Is this justification through faith in Christ Jesus' blood, or justification by faith in the blood of animals?

You have the right to reject the gospel of Paul.

I fail to understand "those verses were written only for the future". What verses are you speaking of "written only for the future? Hebrews was written for the benefit of the Jew and, Gentiles read that Book written to Israel. Even though John the Baptist, Jesus, James, Peter, John, and the rest of the Jerusalem Pentecost church never preached to or at a Gentile, the Gentile could come as a proselyte to that faith.

Wish you had tried to disprove with scripture what was presented in my Post. But people never do for if they try they find they cannot, for they have to leave out what Christ Jesus reveals from heaven.

We don't "test" verses that apply to us today. We "trust" those verses for they come from Christ Jesus in heaven. If you have confessed with your mouth the Lord Jesus Christ for your salvation, you turned (repented) to Him, and even if you should turn your back to Him, He will not let you go. You now have a home - where would you go? He is going to take care of you.

 

Even if I can't spell (Thanks Bro Ed) you didn't answer my question. I'm not asking about works, what version you use or baptism, just do you believe in eternal security?

 

Me neither, and I believe that is exactly what they are meant to accomplish.

 

Well stated, Robycop3. I agree.

 

How can one go from saint then back to sinner?

I open my question to all with this view, do you believe in eternal security?

 

I certainly agree those words are there for a reason, but I think this seems to assume that a saint no longer sins; I think a saint becomes a saint by faith and will heed to those words of warning and never truly let go of that faith as he believes the Word. Even though he sins I would think it will be eating him up inside because of that true faith…some would try to inspect his fruit comparing it to how much he sins and by that judge that he was never saved, but we can not see his heart, we can’t be sure.

Now the Word says us (wanabe fruit inspectors) will know them by their fruit, so how would one look at their fruit? If we were to witness a professed “believer” showing that he thought he would lose his salvation because of sin or because of a lack of his “own” work, and not understanding that his own work is nothing but rags, then I would think his fruit is not of faith, not coming from the right tree, and/but again, on the other hand why would he be even concerned if he had not faith? So how can we be sure about the circumcision of a heart? Maybe this is where hope comes in to the picture, it is for something we can not clearly see, if we did why would we yet hope for it, or IOW’s what would keep us on the right path? God knows how our little evil minds work and I think verses like these and many others keep a true believer in the faith working out their salvation in trembling and fear unto sanctification or maybe another way to put it is for preservation of a justified believer.

Can we be sure about another’s salvation? I wouldn’t want to be the one caught judging it on rather or not he commits a sin or not!

(Rom 14:22) Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

 

Lebuick writes:
" I open my question to all with this view, do you believe in eternal security?"

No, I believe in conditional security, i.e. conditional on continuing to trust Christ as Savior.

 

LeBuick, you couldn't be more right. His precious blood is not worth more than the blood of animals if it cannot save us any longer than could the animal's blood. This is the purpose of God, the Cross. We find after Damascus Road it had been God's intention all along to justify the Gentiles through faith, and that justification is available to all today, but no one knew this until after Damascus Road.

I don't mean to be the pithiest one on the board, as I know it is very hard, scary, and awkward to understand there are (were) two gospels running simultaneously while the Apostles lived. We can see one is being removed from the scene as we go through the Book of Acts.

All those I've conversed with on this board, or read their post's, I believe are saved for they have all confessed the name of the Lord Jesus Christ as their Lord. But I also see so very many do not understand their salvation. Their words belie them.

No doubt you LeBuick confess His name, as does robycop3, as I do. But I believe you and I (correct me if I'm wrong) have been shown we are unconditionally saved (justified), or OSAS. Robycop3, to me your belief points to being conditionally saved (justified), having to endure until the end.

I believe when we come to understand there we two gospels, there is no contradiction in Hebrews 6:4-6 or in the rest of the Bible. The Book of Hebrews is written to the nation Israel and not to any today in this "dispensation" of grace that Christ Jesus revealed to Paul.

This is not me against you robycop3, or Lebuick I know we don't agree on everything, but what the Holy Spirit has thus far allowed each of us to see. For most of my life I was trying to build on two foundations.

 

Hello drfuss. Didn't make it down to your post before posting to Lebuick.

I see we do not agree, but we once did when I found I had one foot in the Kingdom Church, and one foot in the Body Church which is an uncomfortable position to be in.

I too thought at one time it all depended on me, what I did to stay saved. I just had to somehow keep on trusting, and if I ever stopped, it would all be for naught for I was depending on me, and not Him.

I'll try to make myself clear. Paul tells us he will not build on another man's foundation, although that man is Peter. Paul was building on the same foundation as Peter. They were both laying their own foundation on the foundation of Jesus Christ. The foundation that Peter laid is the Kingdom Church, and that gospel was the gospel of John the Baptist that he preached to the Temple believers, the Jew. This is what Jesus also preached while He was on earth to only His own people, the Jew. This is also what the earthly Apostles of Jesus preached, and none but Peter (at the insistence of God-one time) ever preached to a Gentile.

What was this gospel, this gospel of the Kingdom is at hand, for those of the Kingdom Church? We see it in the "great commission", and when the men of Israel asked Peter "what should we do?" Acts 2:38 confirms the gospel of the "great commission" of "…Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. This is the foundation Peter lays for Israel to build on, that Kingdom that was coming, and it was at hand.

If we are to believe the Word of God, and believe Paul we know he says he is the Apostle to the Gentile, and also to the Jew in that day. God's Word tells us there is no difference between the two today. Paul's gospel shows us things not before known, for God said these things were "hidden" in Him (God). Such things as our justification through faith; The Body of Christ Church, the rapture, and other things.

The Bible points to those of the "Kingdom Church", the Jewish Pentecostal Church were to "repent and be water baptized for the remission of their sins", and had no knowledge they would be "unconditionally saved", as we Gentile's are. Jesus never told them this. It was not His place, for the Father had it hidden.

So this is why we disagree. My repentance is found in Him. He died for me, and at the Cross are my sins, which have been taken care of. I am saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, and His blood not being the same as the blood of animals, that needs to be shed over, and over, and could never save in the first placed. It only hid man's sins until His blood was shed - once for our sins.

Conditional salvation was all that was available to man until Jesus Christ shed His Blood, at which time God could then tell us now our salvation is unconditional, if we believe on the Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ.