Hebrews 8:10-12

[KenH]

Hebrews 8:10-12(NASB)
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.
11 “And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen,
And everyone his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
For all will know Me,
From the least to the greatest of them.
12 “For I will be merciful to their iniquities,
And I will remember their sins no more.”

I find it interesting that the "I" here is all work done by God. He is not depending on man to do anything. The only place man is mentioned in this is as "not" doing something.

 

[Yelsew]

The "them" being spoken of is the Children of Israel, and not the gentiles. So just as God "hardens" the children of Israel, God remolds them.

 

[KenH]

Yelsew,

Christians are part of the new covenant referenced in these verses.

I am beginning to wonder if Calvinists and Arminians are reading the same Bible.

 

[Yelsew]

Hebrews 8

1. Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2. A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
3. For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4. For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5. Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
6. But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9. Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11. And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Jeremiah 31:33. But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

There is little evidence that the House of Israel is changing in accordance with this new covenenant. Therefore, I do not believe this new covenant will be in effect until the time of the gentiles is complete.

 

[KenH]

I give up.

Adios for a while.

 

[Bible-belted]

Yelsew,

You have to be kidding.

There is little evidence that the House of Israel is changing in accordance with this new covenenant. Therefore, I do not believe this new covenant will be in effect until the time of the gentiles is complete.

The New Covenant is the one in Christ's blood. If it isn't in effect yet, then you aren't saved.

Clearly you have no understanding of the Bible.

 

[Ray Berrian]

In Hebrews chapter eight you will find more than two covenants. The first two are noticeable at a glance. 'If that first covenant {Law} had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second {the covenant of Grace}. We live under the covenant of grace until the rapture of the bride to Heaven. [I Thess. 4:13]

The writer of Hebrews had a reason to say that God ' . . . found fault with them.' {both the covenant of Law and Grace} This does not mean that they did not serve their purpose, but God's planning as to covenants changes with different eras of time. The reason He found fault with the covenant of Law and grace is because there is still another covenant that is coming yet future. In the Millinimum, the thousand year reign of Christ on the earth, He will make a unique covenant with Israel or as the writer says, ' . . . with the House of Israel and the house of Judah.' [Hebrews 8:8]

A further peculiarity is that under our present covenant only a trickle of people even know the Lord in our twenty-first century. In all of the Muslim nations about 98% of the people believe in Allah. But, when Jesus sets up His theocracy in Jerusalem [Zachariah 14:17] most of the world of people will come to know Jesus through faith. Jesus will require their allegiance and personal pilgrimage to Jerusalem. [vs. 16]

Still another differentiation is found in the fact that the vast majority will know the Lord [Hebrews 8:11] who will sit on the throne in the holy city of Jerusalem. I have checked with the leadership of Messianic Christians who live in NYC and they agree with this view of eschatology.

If a person does not see three covenants in Hebrews chapter eight, then there is no meaning behind the 'House of Judah and the House of Israel.'

Although God may classify us all under one unconditional covenant via the 'Abrahamic Covenant' as to salvation, He nevertheless, has a covenant of Law, Grace and His Messianic covenant yet to be introduced.

 

[Ray Berrian]

Yelsew,

I agree with your post. I think you will find some similarities to my view of this passage with yours. This is a confirmation that our view is correct.

The introduction of the Messianic covenant means that the covenant of grace as we know it today will evolve into His theocratic Kingdom Age. Obedience to the Lord will be the call word to a loving, faith relationship to Him.

If some brethren would study their Bible the way they try to justify Calvin's presuppositions then they would understand the coming age.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Ken H:
Yelsew,

Christians are part of the new covenant referenced in these verses.

I am beginning to wonder if Calvinists and Arminians are reading the same Bible.

Yelsew is right, Ken. In fact, the whole book of Hebrews should be ripped out of the New Testament, since it is written to the Hebrews, and not to Christians.

 

[Ray Berrian]

Since the Cross of Jesus Christ even until this day we are living under the New Covenant of Grace, spoken of as the ' . . . better covenant,' [Hebrews 8:6] because it is founded on ' . . . better promises,' coming from God. [vs. 6]

God will one day 'find fault with them' [vs. 8] and will introduce a new covenant with Israel as noted in [vs. 8] during the Kingdom Age on earth. This future covenant will appear on the earth as also mentioned in Jeremiah 31:31.

 

[William C]

Context is key.

I think you need to read chapter 4 to understand chapter 5:

1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left to us of entering into His rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the Gospel preached, as well as unto them; but the Word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter into rest, as He said, "As I have sworn in My wrath, `If they shall enter into My rest'"--although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He spoke in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works." 5 And again in this place: "If they shall enter into My rest"--. 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter in because of unbelief, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David "today," after so long a time, as it is said, "Today if you will hear His voice, harden not your hearts."

 

[Frogman]

Hello Bill.

Remember that song on Sat. mornings..."I'm just a Bill....on Capitol Hill...but some day....I'm gonna be a Law...?

When I see your name this song jingles in my head, sorry, can't help it. Just thought I'd share that....

Most people relate to me either 'who shot J.R. or 'Going thru the Big D and don't mean Dallas...go figure.

Bro. Dallas

 

[Yelsew]

Thank You Ray.

I knew that I was correct, but your explanation certainly added to my understanding.

Thank you too Npetreley, but I have to disagree that Hebrews should not be part of the Christian bible. You see, there are Hebrew Christians everywhere in the world, and the book of Hebrews is a strong link that binds us to them.

 

[Frogman]

I agree with your post. I think you will find some similarities to my view of this passage with yours. This is a confirmation that our view is correct.

Yet Calvin was arrogant? Hey fellows spell Jesus, in the Hebrew it is Joshua, a thorough word study will show that Jesus means 'in whom Jehovah is satisfied'

Add Christ as in Jesus Christ and we have 'in whom Jehovah is satisfied, the anointed Messiah of God'

Christ Jesus is: The anointed Messiah, in whom Jehovah is satisfied'

Where do we find bro. Dallas, Ray, Yelsew, Ken, Glen, Bill, Npetreley or any other? If satisfying to Jehovah, it is in Christ they are found. When? At the Cross where He bought His people, who did He pay? satan, no, He, as His name says satisfied Jehovah.

Bro. Dallas

 

[Yelsew]

JOSHUA? or JESHUA?

Christ is not Mary's or Joseph's last name therefore it is not Jesus' last name!

 

[Frogman]

Jesus is the Greek for Joshua.

Christ is the name of the annointed Messiah of God. Jesus manifested God in the flesh, the manifestation of this Messiah.

Bro. Dallas

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Yelsew:
JOSHUA? or JESHUA?

None of the above, if you want to get persnickety. Yeshua better reflects the way it is pronounced.

 

[Frogman]

Originally posted by Yelsew:
JOSHUA? or JESHUA?

Christ is not Mary's or Joseph's last name therefore it is not Jesus' last name!

O.K. forgive me; but I did tell you I was not perfect.

Jesus the Christ; is that satisfactory?

What about Paul's calling our Lord Christ Jesus; should we correct him? make it perhaps Christ the Jesus, obviously Jesus is not his last name either.

There is yet found a meaning in each usage of the names:

Jesus Christ
and
Christ Jesus

Bro. Dallas

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Frogman:
O.K. forgive me; but I did tell you I was not perfect.

Jesus the Christ; is that satisfactory?

Are you saying that "the" is His middle name?

 

[Frogman]