Hebrews and the Warnings in Hebrews

[Van]

Hebrews 10:36-39
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

1) We need to be patience, keeping our eyes on the prize, and press forward to the high calling of Jesus Christ, while we wait for the Second Coming of our Lord.

2) After we have gone all in for Christ, we look forward to the promise of eternal life.

3) Christ's return is immanent, and so we should live each day as expecting to see Jesus.

4) The just (those justified by the blood of the Lamb) shall live (both in the present serving Christ and in the hereafter with Christ) because of God crediting our faith as righteousness. But, rather than going "all in" a person exposed to the gospel, draws back, he will not be saved. However, those saved are not those that draw back, for they went all in! Those who reject the gospel go into perdition, but them that fully believe to the saving of their souls.

 

[Van]

I'm just having trouble with the passage following the warning, because it seems to link good works with being saved. I know we're supposed to do them, but I don't think that we need to do them to merit or prove our salvation.

Hebrews 6:7
For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

1) Born anew believers mature spiritually and bring forth fruit of the Spirit, as expressed both in their love of God and their love of others.

2) Those that bring forth thorns and briers will receive no rewards, and their work product will be burned.

3) Thus when we evaluate our own lives (and definitely not the lives of others) we should see growth, a changed life. If not, it would look to me as if I lacked genuine commitment to Christ.

 

[Guido]

Hebrews 6:7
For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

1) Born anew believers mature spiritually and bring forth fruit of the Spirit, as expressed both in their love of God and their love of others.

2) Those that bring forth thorns and briers will receive no rewards, and their work product will be burned.

3) Thus when we evaluate our own lives (and definitely not the lives of others) we should see growth, a changed life. If not, it would look to me as if I lacked genuine commitment to Christ.

So is preaching the gospel a good and loving work? (I'm pretty sure it is). And how do I know I am preaching the right gospel?

 

[Guido]

Is Ralph Yankee Arnold preaching the right thing? I've been listening to him. I don't think he's a Baptist but he preaches free grace. I originally went to Baptist churches when I was much younger, and I thought I got saved but I wasn't sure if I did. Then I started reading all kinds of things on the Internet and then I started getting confused. When I was much younger, I was confused about whether salvation was by faith or by works, and I thought I was going to hell because I didn't have any good works.

 

[1689Dave]

I have so long endeavored to comprehend Hebrews, believing myself to have salvation for my faith in Christ and the gospel, but not discerning the meaning of the epistle, because of the warnings that taken together confound my understanding, having searched out sundry interpretations thereof, but being unable to settle on one for contradictions within them, which so long disturbed me because of my fear I was lost.

So what do you think is the meaning of Hebrews and its warning passages?

Paul warns the Hebrew Christians against returning to the Mosaic law, now replaced by the New Testament (New Covenant). Many today are doing this who plan to offer temple sacrifices in a supposed 3rd temple in Jerusalem.

Since saved people cannot lose their salvation, those who defect were not saved. For them to be saved, Christ would need to choose them and return to the cross a second time to redeem them which is impossible. If you think you can be lost, you do not yet have saving faith.

 

[Guido]

Okay, then I'm a sinner, and Jesus died for my sins, was buried and rose again from the dead, to give me eternal life which can never be taken away me, and I believe that, and trust in that, and in Him. Does that make me saved? I thought I was already saved but then I started doubting.

 

[Guido]

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm trolling. In other forums I've participated in, they thought I was a troll because of the way I behaved. But I'm not a troll, and I'm trying not to misbehave on this forum.

 

[Van]

So is preaching the gospel a good and loving work? (I'm pretty sure it is). And how do I know I am preaching the right gospel?

Before you present the gospel to others, you should seek the help of the ministry staff at your church.

And study the "fruit of the Spirit." Rather than teaching others, consider allowing others to teach you...

 

[Van]

Hebrews 12:25-29 This passage is very apropos to us today. As the Godless Left tightens its grip on public discourse, we will pay a price for standing up for Christ. Our views will be regarded as "hate speech" and biased. Some will go with the flow, and put a basket over their light. It has become acceptable to ban certain topics, and deny freedom of speech. People who say the wrong things will be removed and only the "party line" will be allowed.

Do not disregard our holy calling, and neglect our salvation. We are ambassadors of Christ and we have the ministry of reconciliation. Be wise and careful, but carry out our part of Christ's ministry to our lost world.

 

[Guido]

Okay.

What if I did something stupid and Satan started harassing me. Am I still saved? I'm schizophrenic by the way.

I did a lot of stupid sins of a theological or spiritual nature.

 

[Guido]

Also I haven't been going to church because of COVID. And I don't know where there is a church in my area.

 

[Guido]

Hebrews 12:25-29 This passage is very apropos to us today. As the Godless Left tightens its grip on public discourse, we will pay a price for standing up for Christ. Our views will be regarded as "hate speech" and biased. Some will go with the flow, and put a basket over their light. It has become acceptable to ban certain topics, and deny freedom of speech. People who say the wrong things will be removed and only the "party line" will be allowed.

Do not disregard our holy calling, and neglect our salvation. We are ambassadors of Christ and we have the ministry of reconciliation. Be wise and careful, but carry out our part of Christ's ministry to our lost world.

I suppose that I ought to do bountiful reading of the words in the Holy Bible, to learn all the things required of me by the Lord, in order that also I might accomplish them, to show to the lost a life of holiness, and to undo the feeling that I am a hypocrite, to stablish the saving of as many souls as God through my witness will call unto Christ.

 

[Guido]

The only thing is I think Lordship salvation is wrong and even though I am starting to believe that salvation results in good works, and I really don't want to believe that because I feel like it is contrary to God's grace. But being behaving after holiness before unbelievers is still God for showing them the truth.

I wasn't saying that it's not good for pleasing God.

 

[Guido]

What do you think of this? Did you read the whole book of Galatians?

Galatians 2:16 KJV

16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[Guido]

Galatians 3:1-3

1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

 

[Guido]

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to cause an argument or to be unteachable. I've considered myself a Baptist since my childhood I'm not exactly sure what the Baptists believe about saving faith, but I don't believe in works for salvation at all. I don't even believe that works prove salvation. I just believe that the saints should obey God because they love God and they love others and they want to bring others to Christ. I wasn't obeying God so I doubted my salvation, then I did certain sins and I thought I fell away. That was a long time ago.

 

[Van]

Works does not provide salvation nor maintain salvation. But to claim a changed life after salvation does not provide assurance of salvation is without merit.

 

[kyredneck]

So what do you think is the meaning of Hebrews and its warning passages?

Are you a heller? There's always going to be those that say God only punishes with infinity in torment, which is insane. The Lord will, and does, judge His people. Not eternally but temporally in this time world. Go through the entire book, these 'falling away' are described as brethren, partakers of the Holy Spirit, tasted the good word of God, received the knowledge of the truth, sanctified by the blood of the covenant, referred to as 'His people'. They entered not into His rest because of unbelief. Even Moses and Aaron were refused entrance into His rest because of their unbelief.

Are Moses and Aaron in hell?

Does Christ's atonement cover the sin of unbelief?

Are there other sins that His atonement doesn't cover?

Check out chapter 10:

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.
28 A man that hath set at nought Moses law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses:
29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Heb 10

These in chapter 10 had 'received the knowledge of the truth', were 'sanctified by the blood of the covenant', called 'His people'. It's not just 'any ol' sin' that's in view here, but a specific sin (returning to apostate Judaism) of which a specific people (professing Jewish Christians), of a specific time (the very generation that judged Christ to be worthy of death) were under pressure to do.

There was to be no repentance granted for those that fell away and returned back to that apostate system that killed Christ, because by returning they crucified the Son of God afresh and put him to an open shame (Heb 6:4-6), but there was only a certain fearful expectation of judgment which would devour the adversaries before that generation passed away (Heb 10:37), for those that had trodden under foot the Son of God and counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing and done despite unto the Spirit of grace (Heb 10:27-29) by falling away back to the apostate Judaism they been delivered from.

THAT is a very crucial message contained within the book.

 

[Guido]

Are you a heller? There's always going to be those that say God only punishes with infinity in torment, which is insane. The Lord will, and does, judge His people. Not eternally but temporally in this time world. Go through the entire book, these 'falling away' are described as brethren, partakers of the Holy Spirit, tasted the good word of God, received the knowledge of the truth, sanctified by the blood of the covenant, referred to as 'His people'. They entered not into His rest because of unbelief. Even Moses and Aaron were refused entrance into His rest because of their unbelief.

Are Moses and Aaron in hell?

Does Christ's atonement cover the sin of unbelief?

Are there other sins that His atonement doesn't cover?

Check out chapter 10:

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.
28 A man that hath set at nought Moses law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses:
29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Heb 10

These in chapter 10 had 'received the knowledge of the truth', were 'sanctified by the blood of the covenant', called 'His people'. It's not just 'any ol' sin' that's in view here, but a specific sin (returning to apostate Judaism) of which a specific people (professing Jewish Christians), of a specific time (the very generation that judged Christ to be worthy of death) were under pressure to do.

There was to be no repentance granted for those that fell away and returned back to that apostate system that killed Christ, because by returning they crucified the Son of God afresh and put him to an open shame (Heb 6:4-6), but there was only a certain fearful expectation of judgment which would devour the adversaries before that generation passed away (Heb 10:37), for those that had trodden under foot the Son of God and counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing and done despite unto the Spirit of grace (Heb 10:27-29) by falling away back to the apostate Judaism they been delivered from.

THAT is a very crucial message contained within the book.

That interpretation makes sense to me. I already had that view at one point but then I thought it was incorrect.

 

[asterisktom]

Are you a heller? There's always going to be those that say God only punishes with infinity in torment, which is insane. The Lord will, and does, judge His people. Not eternally but temporally in this time world. Go through the entire book, these 'falling away' are described as brethren, partakers of the Holy Spirit, tasted the good word of God, received the knowledge of the truth, sanctified by the blood of the covenant, referred to as 'His people'. They entered not into His rest because of unbelief. Even Moses and Aaron were refused entrance into His rest because of their unbelief.

Are Moses and Aaron in hell?

Does Christ's atonement cover the sin of unbelief?

Are there other sins that His atonement doesn't cover?

Check out chapter 10:

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.
28 A man that hath set at nought Moses law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses:
29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Heb 10

These in chapter 10 had 'received the knowledge of the truth', were 'sanctified by the blood of the covenant', called 'His people'. It's not just 'any ol' sin' that's in view here, but a specific sin (returning to apostate Judaism) of which a specific people (professing Jewish Christians), of a specific time (the very generation that judged Christ to be worthy of death) were under pressure to do.

There was to be no repentance granted for those that fell away and returned back to that apostate system that killed Christ, because by returning they crucified the Son of God afresh and put him to an open shame (Heb 6:4-6), but there was only a certain fearful expectation of judgment which would devour the adversaries before that generation passed away (Heb 10:37), for those that had trodden under foot the Son of God and counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing and done despite unto the Spirit of grace (Heb 10:27-29) by falling away back to the apostate Judaism they been delivered from.

THAT is a very crucial message contained within the book.

Great answer. I would add that one of the most important keys to this book is to bear in mind to whom it was written - the Hebrews. And also, noticing that is directed to a certain time period - 1st century. We see this in passages like Heb. 8:13:

"In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away"

It was written when the Old Covenant was still around in some form, but on its last legs, so to speak. These passages have a special reference to that time, not ours, And certainly not to some imaginary Tribulation period in the future.