Hell -a Place of Eternal Torment?

[Claudia_T]

Most of the Protestant world and Catholic, teach that Hell is an eternal place of torment? But is that what the Bible teaches?

Furthermore, what is this saying about God? Is it defaming Him before the world?

Look at everybody's favorite Bible verse... what is the opposite of eternal life?

Jn:3:15: That whosoever believeth in him should not PERISH, but have eternal life.

The wicked are going to burn for a certain time in Hell and then PERISH.

And is the Devil is charge of Hell as so many imagine? Is he standing there with his red leotards and pitchfork, delighting in torturing human beings? Is Satan on the Divine Payroll?

 

[gekko]

isn't that John 3:16? not John 3:15?

no - the devil is in an orange suit with a shovel... and blocks the freeway so that one cannot drive on an open road... hehehe.

 

[Claudia_T]

Yes you are right it is John 3:16

well the devil isnt in hell turning up the heat volume on anyone because nobody is in Hell yet.

And he isnt going to be in control of hell anyway.

 

[gekko]

i dont understand this topic at all...

 

[Claudia_T]

Here's the thing, gekko,

Most all of Christianity has adopted the false doctrine from the Roman Catholic Church that claims that the wicked are tortured forever and ever in Hell, but they are wrong.

If you study this topic out to its entirety, you will find that the wicked are destroyed after burning in Hell for a certain amount of time.

Also, Nobody is in Heaven or Hell right now, as is commonly taught, the false doctrine that says people die and go straight to heaven or hell also came from the Roman Catholic Church, along with the Sunday Sabbath...

I will start with just a few Bible verses to show you... and give you more as time goes on...

 

[Claudia_T]

Notice this is called the SECOND DEATH..

everyone dies the first natural death but the second death is in Hell.

Rv:21:8: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is THE SECOND DEATH.

This was known as "the death" or the second death... it is what Jesus died on the cross,, the Second Death, in our place.

Mt:15:4: For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

Now look at Sodom and Gammorah:

Jude:1:7: Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Is Sodom and Gammorah, which are given as examples of "eternal fire" burning today? NO of course not.


The wicked are BURNED UP with the unquenchable fires of Hell...

Mt:3:12: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will BURN UP the chaff with unquenchable fire.


the wicked will be as ashes under the feet...

Mal:4:3: And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.


Mt:10:28: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to DESTROY BOTH SOUL AND BODY IN HELL.


JUst because the Bible says people burn in hell "forever and ever" doesnt necessarily mean as we normally think of as "forever". We have to look at ALL the Bible verses about what happens to the wicked...

How is the term understood in the case of certain Hebrew servants?
"His master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him forever." Ex. 21:6.
NOTE. - He could not serve his master longer than he lived.

For how long a time did Samuel's mother lend him to the Lord to serve in the temple?
"I will bring him, that he may appear before the Lord, and there abide forever." "Therefore also I have lent him to the Lord; as long as he liveth he shall be lent to the Lord." 1 Sam. 1:22, 28.

"forever" in this case meant as long as he would live.

Read the book of Jonah and you will discover he stayed in the belly of the whale "FOREVER" but we know it was only 3 days...


The wicked will be punished with EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION"
2Thes:1:9: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power

What does the Saviour say will befall those who do not repent?
"I tell you, Nay; but, except ye repent, ye shall all like wise perish." Luke 13:3 (1 Cor. 1:18) (Job 20:4-6).

"But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption." 2 Peter 2:12.


"But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the lord shall be as the fat of lambs; they shall consume, into smoke shall they consume away." Ps. 37:20.


"As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more; but the righteous is an everlasting foundation." Prov. 10:25.


"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble; and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." Mal. 4:1.


I will give more later but this is just a start...

[ May 16, 2006, 10:16 PM: Message edited by: Claudia_T ]

 

[DeclareHim]

Yes Hell is a place of eternal torment.

 

[nate]

Revelation 20:10 "and the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were. They will be tortured day and night forever and ever." ISV

Here we see clearly that hell is eternal abode of those who reject Christ.

 

[JFox1]

The Protestants and the Catholics aren't the only ones who believe that the wicked suffer forever in Hell. The Eastern Orthodox and the Copts also believe that, and they reject Roman Catholic teachings.

 

[Claudia_T]

...well at least they think they do

 

[J. Jump]

Claudia how is eternal life eternal, but hell is only for a period of time. The same Greek word is used to describe both life and hell in many of the passages that you are talking about?

 

[James_Newman]

Originally posted by nate:
Revelation 20:10 "and the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were. They will be tortured day and night forever and ever." ISV

Here we see clearly that hell is eternal abode of those who reject Christ.

I see clearly that the lake of fire is anyway.

 

[Claudia_T]

Originally posted by J. Jump:
Claudia how is eternal life eternal, but hell is only for a period of time. The same Greek word is used to describe both life and hell in many of the passages that you are talking about?

Rom:6:23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The wages of sin is DEATH. not eternal life in Hell.


the wicked dont get to have eternal life in hell or otherwise.

What is eternal about it is eternal punishMENT
not eternal punishING

the eternal punishMENT is eternal destruction from the presence of the Lord...

you dont get to be with God... forever


2Thes:1:9: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power

 

[Claudia_T]

Here's a few more for you:


Phil:3:19: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.


"But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption." 2 Peter 2:12.


"As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more; but the righteous is an everlasting foundation." Prov. 10:25.


"For as ye have drunk upon My holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually; yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been." Obad. 1:16.


Where will the place of the wicked be?
"For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be; yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be." Ps. 37:10.
It would be difficult to keep the wicked in a state of eternal torment without any place in which to exist.


Where will the wicked receive their punishment, death, which is the wages of sin?
"Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed in the earth; much more the wicked and the sinner." Prov. 11:31.

How is this accomplished?
"And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city; and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them." Rev. 20:9

When do the wicked receive their punishment? The wicked dead are not now in hell as is commonly taught
"The lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished." 2 Peter 2:9 (Job 21:29, 30).


and the devil... what becomes of him??

Rev 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone


Ezekiel 28:18,19
therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee...and never shalt thou be any more.

 

[J. Jump]

Claudia you didn't answer my question though. How can you understand a limited time of punishment, but you see life as eternal. The same Greek word is used. How can it be limited one time and eternal the next time?

 

[Claudia_T]

Jump,

I dont know anything about Greek or Hebrew. I will see if I can find out.


Meanwhile though think about this.

The truth about what happens to the wicked was taught in the Old Testament, through the sacrificial system.

The penalty for the worst sin was always the death of the substitute victim. No prolonged torture or imprisonment.

The sin offering was consummed, symbolic of the ultimate destruction of sin and sinners.

Then we have the Day of Atonement, which typified God's final judgment upon believers and unbelievers.

Those who did not repent, on the Day of Atonement they were "cut off" from God's people. "For whoever is not afflicted on this same day shall be cut off from his people. And whoever does any work on this same day, that person I will destroy from among his people" (Lev 23:29-30).

Jesus compared this separation to the one that takes happens at the harvest time between the wheat and the tares. The wicked will be thrown "into the furnace of fire and burned up" (Matt 13:42-43).

 

[Claudia_T]

I should add though that the Bible says those who knews God's will are going to suffer longer in hell than those who dont:

Luke 12:
46: The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47: And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48: But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

 

[J. Jump]

Claudia I'm not arguing with you about destruction. This is something that I have just been introduced to and will have to investigate further.

I've just found it quite ironic that you see that punishment is temporal, but life is eternal when the same Greek word is used to describe both.

By the way I had this same conversation with a friend of mine that believes in the complete destruction of the unsaved.

The eternal life that we have been talking about in a couple of the other threads is actually age-lasting life which is life for the coming kingdom, which is tied to the salvation of the soul.

I think if you see the connect to the temporal period for punishment that it would be easier for you to see the connection with the life that is for a temporary amount of time (1,000 years).

Just do a Google search on the word aionios and you will have more reading material than you want. Here's a couple of threads to get you started.

http://www.schoettlepublishing.com/booksonline/craig/chapter2.pdf

http://www.inthebeginning.org/kingdom/sweigart/life.pdf