Hell as Chastisement

[StefanM]

Why are you confused? It's second person singular in the Greek and in the KJV. It's not plural, no matter how badly some want it to be plural.

Yes, I do realize this. I guess I was confused when you said "you" instead of "thee" because "you" isn't (err.. that sounds bad) in the verse in the KJV.

I follow you now.

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

If he were speaking to a group, then the word would be second person plural, not singular. Singular means that it's an individual, not a bunch of single individuals.

It doesn't matter whether Jesus is speaking to one person or to a group. He is providing insight into how we as Christians should live. How many passages in the Bible speak to you, directly by name? Does that mean that none of the Bible pertains to you?

 

[Lacy Evans]

Yeah! And he would no longer be your nephew, would he? Oh, wait...

No you silly heretic :love2: , it proves that he never really was Diggin's nephew!

Lacy

Sorry DidW, I couldn't resist.

 

[Hope of Glory]

It doesn't matter whether Jesus is speaking to one person or to a group. He is providing insight into how we as Christians should live. How many passages in the Bible speak to you, directly by name? Does that mean that none of the Bible pertains to you?

I agree with you, but I believe that Diggin was trying to say that since he was speaking to the group (which he was not), then there could be some unsaved people involved.

Either way, this is sort of like the "works is not really works" argument, by saying, "singular is not singular". It's trying to make it fit something that you want it to fit. (A generic "you", BTW, not a specific "you", so it could be singular or plural...:tongue3

 

[Lacy Evans]

While we have bantered about on the issue of whether "thee" is singular or plural, we have failed to discuss the main question I had.

Did Jesus hold John (and the other disciples) directly accountable to his teachings in Mark 9?

("Ye belong to me"=saved?)

Was the "Hell" warning applicable to John or not? If so, then why would it not apply to us?

If not who does this apparantly works based salvation apply to? Certainly not unsaved Jews! They (Paul, Peter, etc. got saved just like we do.

Lacy

 

[Lacy Evans]

I guess after 70 or 80 pages or so of this, everyone is tired of talking about it.

Lacy

 

[av1611jim]

Yes my brother Lacy. Apparently they are, for they have their minds made up and no amount of discussion/argument/dialogue/debate will convince them.

I think you know it is the job of the Holy Spirit of God to convict them of sin, righteousness, and judgment. John 16:8.

The best we can do is lay it out for them as simply as we can using the relevant Scriptural basis, and let God do the work in their minds and hearts.

I have been following all the threads on this subject. You guys have left no stone unturned. The next order of business is.....

Pray for them.

 

[Lacy Evans]

Hey Jim! When is our next Kingdom conference?

Lacy

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Actually, as David said, 'My heart is fixed'. God's Holy Spirit has convinced me that He will not cast me away when I stand before Him on that day appointed. He will not cut off even on member of the Body, for the Body is One; every joint supplieth.

I stand convinced by His Holy Word that, even though satan has deceived many to believe Christ will cast out of His kingdom part of His Body, Christ will accept all who are His and those who are not His will be the ones cast out. Those who are not His, never were His.

 

[Lacy Evans]

Those who are not His, never were His.

Mark 9:41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

??????????

 

[Diggin in da Word]

I notice you put several question marks after your last post. Seeing you are confused by those two verses, I can see why you are so easily deceived into believing Christ would put His own who are just like Him for they have seen Him as He is, into outer darkness.

Study to show thyself approved, young man.

 

[Hope of Glory]

You guys have left no stone unturned.

Two things I learned from growing up on the farm is that you always...

I mean, you never...

Well, I can't remember the first thing, but the second thing is that after you've turned all the stones, you can still find more that are unturned...

I find new ones every day, and they're a real blessing.

 

[Lacy Evans]

Two things I learned from growing up on the farm is that you always...

I mean, you never...

Well, I can't remember the first thing, but the second thing is that after you've turned all the stones, you can still find more that are unturned...

I find new ones every day, and they're a real blessing.

Ever pick up a big stone in a combine header HoG? Shuts everything down.

Lacy

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

If Judas did not repent, he was never saved. The Bible clearly tells us he was the son of perdition or the son of destruction.

Jesus said a good tree can not bear evil fruit. The fact that the last act Judas did on this earth was suicide (murder), shows he was not a good tree for he bore evil fruit.

And we know all murderers will have their part in the lake of fire.

I've always wondered whether Judas repented in light of this verse:

Mat 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

The Bible says Satan entered Judas:

Luk 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

What does this mean about his salvation status before this happened? Does Saten enter us when we sin?