HELL IS NOT LAKE OF FIRE

[av1611jim]

Originally posted by DHK:
And just what facts did you present to us Jim?
I saw a lot of words posted, but little facts.
DHK

Obviously DHK, you did not read, with comprehension, my comments.

I was exspressing my exasperation. Comprende?
In His service;
Jim

FYI My fellow Kingdom believer is doing quite well. And my comments were directed to him about my frustration with the out of hand dismissal of this truth and flippant attitude of some on this board who seem to think somewhat of themselves.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by James Newman:
So when did he get cast into the lake of fire, if no one else does until after the thousand years are finished? The bible says he was in hell, and he was tormented by flames. Hell is cast into the lake of fire at the same time everyone else is at the end of the millennium. Even Satan himself is kept in hell until after the thousand years. How do you explain this?

The Lake of Fire does not come into play until after the Millennial Kingdom. See Revelation 20:10-15.
Where did the rich man go? To hell.

Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Then, some time after the Millennial Kingdom is over, the Resurrection of the Unjust will take place, and all unsaved will stand before God in the Great White Throne Judgement for their final sentence where all will be thrown into the Lake of Fire--including the rich man (and the rest of those in Hell).

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
DHK

 

[James_Newman]

So then you don't believe the rich man is in the lake of fire? Either there is a place of fiery torment in hell before the lake of fire, or the rich man got express trained to the lake of fire long before the judgment at the great white throne ever even took place. The latter is apparently what Marcia believes. What say ye?

 

[DHK]

That is right. The rich man is not presently in a place called "the lake of fire." He is in a place that the Bible calls "hell," which Revelation 20:14 says will be cast into the Lake of Fire sometime in the future. There is torment in Hell. It in itself is likened to a place of fiery torment as you described. But it is not the Lake of Fire, per se. Every unsaved person who dies is faced with eternal torment the minute he dies. First he goes straight to Hell. Then at the Resurrection of the Unjust he receives his body and will also receive a final sentence and be sent to a final place of eternal torment--the Lake of Fire. Though the Lake of Fire is spoken of in Revelation 20, it is not certain that it, at this time, even exists yet. The first mention of the Lake of Fire is in Revelation 19:20, when the beast and the false prophet are cast into it. The last mention of it is in Revelation 20:15 when all who are not found in the Book of Life are cast into it.
DHK

 

[JohnBaskette]

Thanks for your reply. Your absolutley right.
but, Do not miss the purpose of my post., It's The Kingdom Doctrine THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE VERSES ABOUT CHRISTIANS & HELL WORK WHILE HOLDING GODs WORD AS TRUE...
Thanks again.
John

 

[JohnBaskette]

This reply is to Dr.Bob RE: "HELL & THE LOF."
I'm not careful to answer you although, I haven't attended a Bible Cemetary. -NOTE SPELLING.
Knowledge is great & Dr.Bob probably has alot in the "tradition of men".
Here's an idea:
Because, The Kingdom is preached throught the Bible, Why don't you and/or anyone show me (post) where in the Bible HELL IS ETERNAL
You may've missed the scripture I posted yesterday
CAN YOU ANSWER THE QUESTIONS THAT FOLLOW W/THE TRADITIONS OF MEN? --Rhetorical question
Revelation 20:14-15 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Gotta think for a minute; WHY IS HELL CAST INTO THE LOF. IF HELL IS ETERNAL?
FURTHERMORE WHY WOULD GOD CHECK THE BOOK OF LIFE TO SEE IF PEOPLE’S NAMES THAT ARE IN HELL ARE WRITTEN THEREIN?
I'm waiting... PLEASE KNOW I MEAN THIS FOR YOUR GOOD.
In Christ, John (of The Kingdom Belivers Sect)

 

[Dr. Bob]

Many threads, John, have talked about hell. Before reinventing the wheel, it is is incumbant on you to search and read these.

No eternal hell? What kind of people call themselves "Baptist" these days? I'm trying to think of any Baptist confession of faith/doctrinal statement that would teach such error.

And why would someone want to teach that hell is not forever? That is a hallmark of the cults, not baptists.

 

[James_Newman]

Now, Bob, you know that the King James bible teaches that hell is not eternal. Oh, but the King James bible is a mark of a cult, too, isn't it? Maybe you should stop trying to conform your doctrine to a confession of faith, and start believing the bible.

 

[DHK]

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

suffering is present tense. They are suffering the vengeance of eternal fire right now, these wicked men from the Old Testament. The only possible place for them to be suffering eternal vengeance is in Hell as they await the final judgement at the Great White Throne Judgement.

As I have said before: A man may receive a life sentence for a crime committed here. The prison guard may move him from one cell to another during that life sentence, but that doesn't change the life sentence any. It is still a life sentence. The fact that he is moved from one cell to another doesn't make one iota of difference.

The fact that the wicked are moved from Hell to the Lake of Fire does't make one iota of difference. It is still eternal punishment of the wicked.
DHK

 

[JohnBaskette]

Dr,Bob,
We are not a cult! Here's what you missed, I'd give you the benifit of the doubt but, (as brother James posted) IT'S CLOSER TO THE TRUTH THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO BRING THE BIBLE IN LINE WITH YOUR VIEW, THAT HELL IS ETERNAL TO UNDERSTANDTHE KINGDOM DOCTRINE YOU MUST SEE THE DIFERANCE IN HELL & THE LAKE OF FIRE! TELL ME WHY HELL IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE IN REV 20:14-15! YOU ARE A DOCTOR REPLY IF U CAN..

Meant in the nicest possible way... John
* Use scripture DON'T THROW WORDS LIKE "CULT" AROUND.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Hell is not eternal? Let's get out the scissors and start cutting up the Bible.

Hell (hades) is cast into the Lake of Fire for all eternity. Punishment is forever. For ever and ever (Greek - into the ages of the ages of the ages, best way they had to describe something WITHOUT END)

Orthodox Christianity believes in an eternal heaven for the righteous and eternal hell for the unrighteous. One who does not believe such is NOT ORTHODOX in belief and by rule should not even be calling themselves "christian".

Much less, "baptist".

 

[Lacy Evans]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
Orthodox Christianity believes in an eternal heaven for the righteous and eternal hell for the unrighteous. One who does not believe such is NOT ORTHODOX in belief and by rule should not even be calling themselves "christian".

Much less, "baptist".

Your stack of "orthodox" books teaches that. The Bible teaches an eternal heaven for the righteous and eternal Lake Of Fire for the unrighteous. I suggest you study Govett, Lang, Pember, Roadhouse, Seiss, Craig, etc. That way you have at least heard my stack of "orthodox" books.

lacy

 

[JohnBaskette]

Brother DHK,
Thank you for clearing that up! The Anolgy of a Life sentence is great, 1 difference between a life sentence that man executesis that the prisoner gets to walk(STRETCH HIS LEGS) when changing cells. Hell on the otherhand will have no break b/c HELL IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE" Forgive my foolishness, trying to lighten it up a little.
POST Again DHK! In Christ; John

Originally posted by DHK:
Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

suffering is present tense. They are suffering the vengeance of eternal fire right now, these wicked men from the Old Testament. The only possible place for them to be suffering eternal vengeance is in Hell as they await the final judgement at the Great White Throne Judgement.

As I have said before: A man may receive a life sentence for a crime committed here. The prison guard may move him from one cell to another during that life sentence, but that doesn't change the life sentence any. It is still a life sentence. The fact that he is moved from one cell to another doesn't make one iota of difference.

The fact that the wicked are moved from Hell to the Lake of Fire does't make one iota of difference. It is still eternal punishment of the wicked.
DHK

 

[JohnBaskette]

Dr.Bob, Would you prefer, [attack snipped] Mt.23:7 [KJV].
Replies/Posts without Scripture to back it up will
be ignored like the Scripture you've ignored that Kingdom brethren & I've posted...

[ October 22, 2004, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]

 

[Lacy Evans]

ouch!

 

[JohnBaskette]

Bro.Lacy; Those words may not may not have been called for, espially to a moderator so for that I'm kinda sorry...

People need to wake up & read the Bible THIS IS NOT THE DARK AGES but, it's getting worse, Evil men and seducers will wax worse...

 

[dianetavegia]

Seems KingdomBaptist.org disagrees with you fellas.

http://www.kingdombaptist.org/article731.cfm

WHEN PREACHERS BURY HELL: THE ATTACK UPON LITERAL JUDGMENT FIRE AFTER DEATH

Based on the language of the Gospels, this definition, at least in regard to the parabolic language Jesus uses, is absolutely correct. In any and every parable that the Lord uses, everything really exists in reality and nature, exactly as described. Vineyards exist, husbandmen exist, fig trees exist, sheep exist, shepherds exist, doors exist, gates exist, coins exist, candles exist, brooms exist, women exist, barns exist, seeds exist, thorns exist, the sun exists, rocks exist, the blind exist, ditches exist, wine exists, leaves exist, towers exist, winepresses exist, pennies exist, fields exist, fish exist, pearls exist, the sea exists, and rich men exist, beggars exist, angels exist, Abraham exists, and HELL EXISTS AND HELL-FIRE EXISTS! Therefore, even if it could be proven that the story in Luke 16 is a parable (it is not), it would only then prove that Hell really exists, exactly as stated. Notice how the J.W.'s attempt to argue contrary to this fact:

 

[James_Newman]

How you figure that this is not exactly what we are telling you?

 

[JohnBaskette]

Jim, Jim, You are right but if someone can show me in scripture were I’m wrong, YES THEN IT WOULD BE A CULT. The fact is they can’t. Not by men’s traditions BUT W/THE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD.
Marcia something to the effect of ’men think of Hell & The Lake of Fire as interchangeable’ my dear brother James quoted this. for what reason I don’t know…
As for Marcia’s quote, I NEVER ONCE ASKED WHAT DO MEN THINK! Rather reproved, The Traditions of men…
Sorry to sound mean but, NOT TOO SORRY.
Some are going to be offended before they see I certainly was.

Originally posted by av1611jim:
Yeah,
If it don't square with a certain someone, then it is a sect.
Or heresy.
Or false doctrine, i.e. a lie.
Or whatever, fill in the blank__________.
And supposedly this forum is for discussing and/or debating theology.
But woe unto the man who introduces something unfamiliar!
I thought discussion was more than just contradicting what someone has to say. I thought discussion was something like presenting a position with facts. And supporting those facts with Scripture and recognized scholars/theologians/preachers. Or something to that effect anyhow.
Hmmm. Guess I was wrong.
Must not be a Baptist Board after all.

I do apologize for my sarcasm. But I do get exasperated sometimes.
In His srvice;
Jim

 

[JohnBaskette]

Jim, You are right but if someone can show me in scripture were I’m wrong, YES THEN IT WOULD BE A CULT. The fact is they can’t. Not by men’s traditions BUT W/THE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD.
Marcia said something to the effect of ’men think of Hell & The Lake of Fire as interchangeable’ my dear brother James quoted this. for what reason I don’t know…
As for Marcia’s quote, I NEVER ONCE ASKED WHAT DO MEN THINK! Rather reproved, The Traditions of men…
Sorry to sound mean but, NOT TOO SORRY.
Some are going to be offended before they see I certainly was.

Originally posted by av1611jim:
Yeah,
If it don't square with a certain someone, then it is a sect.
Or heresy.
Or false doctrine, i.e. a lie.
Or whatever, fill in the blank__________.
And supposedly this forum is for discussing and/or debating theology.
But woe unto the man who introduces something unfamiliar!
I thought discussion was more than just contradicting what someone has to say. I thought discussion was something like presenting a position with facts. And supporting those facts with Scripture and recognized scholars/theologians/preachers. Or something to that effect anyhow.
Hmmm. Guess I was wrong.
Must not be a Baptist Board after all.

I do apologize for my sarcasm. But I do get exasperated sometimes.
In His srvice;
Jim