help for a confused Calvinist

Well, I got my definition from Webster's. Do you have a problem with Webster's? What kind of American has a problem with Webster's?

In fact, Roget's lists "capricious" as a synonym for "arbitrary"; hence my objection.

 

There's Webster's and then there's Webster's. The highest authority is the third edition, that big honkin thing that lies on the table at the library. Its first definition agrees with my post.

Sure. Roget reaches from Dan to Beersheba, and if one word sometimes connotes another, in it goes.

Summary: one may justly object to the word "arbitrary" because of its connontation, but another who chooses the word anyway is on firm ground denotatively.

For the slow among us, let me illustrate: I may be perfectly accurate in saying "Your baby resembles a toad," but it's still a bad choice of words.

 

Yea, but you supposed to tell the truth! I mean if it looks like a toad it not your fault. :laugh: :laugh: :thumbs:

 

Not that you are more settled into Calvinism, but that you are more settled in your own mind, I am pleased to hear back from you. I am sure, as you say, your own life is open to God, and you are prepared to let God be God.

Cheers, and every blessing,

Jim

 

Pretty much sums up how one becomes a calvinist...read some books by calvinists...rely on the fact there are some great calvinistic theologians...realize their views must be inerrant...gradually become indoctrinated. Yep, sound like all Holy Spirit to me...

I pray that God opens your eyes to the truth of His Word. As you even said, calvinism doesn't sqare with the free will and responsibility of man throughout Scripture. Unfortunately, one looks at the list of "who's who" and assumes these historians have it all figured out, instead of relying on the Holy Spirit within. I believe that uneasiness you have been feeling is the Holy Spirit trying to get your attention away from man's theology, away from books by both calvinists and free willy's and rely on His Word.

 

And besides, Calvinism is much easier. All you have to do is decide you're one of the elect and that's it.

 

Christianyouth, I again recommend W. G. T. Shedd.
Also, whilst you are in the midst of the things like the Westminster Confession, when it gets to the part about primary and secondary causes, slow down and learn about what those are, and how they apply to the discussion at hand.

 

I believe Gods sovereignty and the freewill of Man are both clearly taught in Scripture.


Election:

John 6:65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."


John 15:16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.


Freewill:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.


Matthew 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!



If Scripture is without error and Scripture teaches both, then both must be true, correct?


After sin was introduced, and God entered the garden looking for Adam, what did Adam do?

Genesis 3:10 So he said, "I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself."

He hid, and Man has been hiding from God ever since.

Revelation 6:16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

We will not come to God on our own, even though we have the freewill to do so. Rather we run from God and the acknowledgement of our sins.

God desires that all of us would come to him, but none of us will come on our own. So God does not choose who will go to hell, we choose hell ourselves. The problem is without God calling us and convicting us of our sins, we will continue in them, thus rejecting God and deserving hell.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.

The existence of the World and all that is in it is clear evidence of God, yet we will not come to him without him initiating the call by placing conviction and guilt on our hearts. Therefore God Chooses some of us, for his own Divine reasons and through no merit of our own, to bring to him.


Matthew 20:16 So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen."


Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen."

Psalms 65:4 Blessed is the man You choose, And cause to approach You, That he may dwell in Your courts. We shall be satisfied with the goodness of Your house, Of Your holy temple.


This is the reason that Man is responsible if he goes to hell, but God deserves all the credit for salvation.

 

Actually arminianism is much easier. All you have to do is decide you are saved and that's it. Calvinism is the realization that God decided we are saved and that's not it....... the Holy Spirit confirms it with a new regenerated heart that can see and hear the wonderful truth of the Gospel.

 

you are actually debating on which is EASIER? come on guys, get real. take a break from your debates and get back to what it's all about. do you really think your doing well by "winning" your debates? stop trying so hard to think "right" and instead do right. it might be a refreshing experience.

 

Forgive me dan ok? For some reason I thought I was in the Baptist DEBATE forum. I'll try to do better.

 

sweet, thats what i like to hear. :applause:

 

The two go hand in hand. Before you can do what is right, you must konw what is right and why it is right. Otherwise, all you have is good intentions. I have no doubt that you are sincere in your sentiment. But you are also sincerely wrong.

Joseph Botwinick

 

the problem with going back and forth, claiming that you must do one thing first before you can do another, is that you never move on. there are probably many who don't concentrate enough on learning the Bible, and understanding it's implications for us today. it definitely goes the other way though. by that i mean people who don't get their heads out of books for the sake of making sure they've got it all "right", therefore leaving no room for those who may not have it as "right" as they have it. if i just confused you with the way i structured my sentence, don't worry. i just confused myself.

 

i like to keep myself lighthearted.....:thumbsup:

 

that actually poses an interesting question.....do you really have to think right before you can do right? i whole-heartedly disagree. Think of the new Christians that know very little about a lot of things. must they begin studying before attempting to "do" Christian acts? often times we learn the most when we dive in. this is why it is important to have someone to act as a mentor, to guide you along the way. i don't know much.....should i stop my ministry and pursue more education so i can make sure i'm right in the head before i continue serving?? you probably didn't mean it that way. i just think these things happen together.