Help with this verse

[NewMusic]

For 40 years whenever I read or ponder this statement of the Lord's in the midst of his talking about John the Baptist in this chapter, I do not know how to interpret this line.

Matt 11:12 From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force.

I could make an argument both ways, but let me ask you guys for your thoughts.

Is being violent a good thing or a bad thing in this statement?

 

[unprofitable]

The verse is related to the right of the firstborn in regard to the priesthood and the coming forth of the new covenant kingdom during Christ's ministry.

This is a persecution that began with Abel and Cain. Both brought sacrifices but only Abel's was accepted. Cain was the firstborn and the right of the priesthood double blessing belonged to him but he was carnal and did not understand the order the sacrifices.

Hebrews 11:4 says, "By faith, Abel offered unto God a MORE EXCELLENT sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his GIFTS: and by it he being dead yet speaketh." (Isa 59:21) (Num 25:13)

Christ spoke on the same manner in John 8:18 when he said "I am one that beareth witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me." And again in John 10:25, "Jesus answered them, I told you and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Fathers's name, they bear witness of me." These gifts are set in the church as described in I Cor 12:28.

David describes that persecution in Psalms 83:14 when, because of their hatred of the righteous, the sons (violent) of of the wicked one (Mt 13:38, Jn 8:44) say, "Let us take the houses of God in possession." "The kingdom kingdom of heaven suffereth violence and the violent take it by force." To take it by force is speaking of the self willed spoke of in Jude.

Christ had come and showed them he was Messiah by his gifts and the witness of the Father. He showed them the form/order of the house/kingdom (Eze 43:11) but they were not ashamed of their self righteousness vanity as neither was Cain.

Christ told them in Luke 17:21, "the kingdom of God is within (in the midst) of you." This was the witness of the new covenant kingdom coming forth as the body of Christ, His church." Christ tells his church in Luke 6:22, Blessed are ye (Abel) when men (Cain) shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company (Joseph), and shall reproach you as evil, for the son of Man's (the righteous one) sake.

The violent ones in Matthew 11:12 speaks of the same self righteous ones under the defiled interpretation of the old covenant persecuting the righteous ones of the new covenant kingdom.

I John 3:15 says, "Whosoever hateth his brother (in the church), is a murderer (Cain), and ye know that no murderer (violent one) hath eternal life in him."

I John 3:12 says, "Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil and his brother's righteous."

As was with the prophets, apostles, and Christ, so is the kingdom today.

 

[37818]

The Scofield Reference Bible note has:
Matthew 11:12
suffereth violence

It has been much disputed whether the "violence" here is external, as against the kingdom in the persons of John the Baptist and Jesus; or that, considering the opposition of the scribes and Pharisees, only the violently resolute would press into it. Both things are true. The King and His herald suffered violence, and this is the primary and greater meaning, but also, some were resolutely becoming disciples. CF Luke 16:16.

 

[Van]

Here is an unambiguous translation:
28) Matthew 11:12 should read, "Since the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of the heavens has been forcefully sought, and forceful people are laying hold of it."

a) The time period in view is from the onset of the gospel revelation (behold the Lamb of God) until at least the writing of Matthew, and perhaps still on-going today.

b) Some of the people who hear and understand the gospel take the direction to eternal life and forcefully seek the kingdom of God by their full commitment.

c) Those that (in God's eyes) fully commit to Christ as Lord and Savior and are chosen for salvation are those that lay hold of the opportunity provided by Christ's sacrifice.

 

[Alex2165]

I covered this issue in my previous posts.


This verse speaks not about physical violence but about the force of the human spirit and will.


No one using physical force can enter the Spiritual Kingdom of GOD, it is complete nonsense.


Similar verse also indicated in Luke 16.16.


The translation varies from Bible to Bible:


Gideons and NRSV - "suffered violence, and the violent take it by force."

KSB - "suffered violence, and violent men take it by force." (suffered - "is forcibly entered," or "seized it for themselves.") N.T. P-1277.

GNB - "has suffered violent attacks and violent men try to seize it." or "has been coming violently." N.T. P-15.)


Because entire chapter dedicated to John the Baptist who prepared the coming of Christ, from that moment in time a new standard applied for the way leading to GOD'S Kingdom.


Before John the Baptist the way to GOD was paved by the Law of Moses, half of which consist of physical rituals and the other half of spiritual commandments.


But under the Christ the physical rituals no longer applicable, because the Temple some 40 years after Christ will be destroyed, so the only Commandments left to fulfill are the spiritual Commandments of the Law of Moses, all of which Jesus Christ repeated in His sermons and speeches and commanded to fulfill.


So the violence about which Matthew 11.12 and Luke 16.16 are talking about is a spiritual will and force of a human being to obey and to follow all the spiritual Commandments that Jesus Christ commanded to fulfill and to live by.


In other words, you want to enter the Kingdom of GOD? Force yourself to do following:


TEN COMMANDMENTS



(Exodus 20.1-17) (Leviticus 19.3-4.11-13.16.30.34) (Deuteronomy 5.6-22, 6.1-25)



FIRST TABLE


1. No other gods.

2. No image of GOD.

3. No dishonoring of GOD'S name.

4. No desecration of GOD'S DAY. (Sabbath)

5. No dishonoring of GOD'S representatives (parent).



SECOND TABLE


1. No taking away of a neighbors life.

2. No taking away of his wife - his home - his dearest good.

3. No taking away of his goods.

4. No taking away of his good name.

5. No coveting of his good or his goods.


The New International Dictionary of the Bible. J. D. Douglas, Merrill C. Tenney.



All teachings of Jesus Christ was based on Ten Commandments, and so, in order to force yourself into Kingdom of GOD, force yourself first to obey and follow elementary spiritual 10 Commandments, and then after follow much more difficult Commandments of Jesus Christ when He preached self-sacrifice in terms of wealth and property and even own life.


I already know ahead how Baptists and perhaps some other few denominations will react on this post, because they already convinced themselves that they are already saved by the Blood of Christ and there is no need to follow GOD'S Commandments or do anything good.


But I will stay firm in my conviction and will repeat again and again that we have to make strong effort and force ourselves to follow spiritual Commandments of the Law as Christ teach us to do, and do something we do not like to do, or doing something what is very heavy to us and is not pleasant.


This is the only to way to reach the Kingdom of GOD and be accepted by Him, and Matthew 11.12 and Luke 16.16, exactly pointed to this notion to force ourselves into Kingdom of GOD by forcing ourselves to obey and fulfill His Commandments.


No guts no glory.