Henry Ford

Your link says

"The two Holocaust survivors suing the US government and the Bush family for a total of $40bn in compensation claim both materially benefited from Auschwitz slave labour during the second world war. Kurt Julius Goldstein, 87, and Peter Gingold, 85, began a class action in America in 2001, but the case was thrown out by Judge Rosemary Collier on the grounds that the government cannot be held liable under the principle of "state sovereignty"

Actual truth is

In a bizarre addition to the Holocaust-related suits now winding their way through the courts, two German-Jewish survivors of the Auschwitz death camp are suing the American government for its failure to bomb the camp.

The plaintiffs in the class-action suit, Kurt Julius Goldstein, 87, and Peter Gingold, 85, are asking for $40 billion in compensation for survivors and the descendants of the Jews killed in Auschwitz in the closing months of World War II. They claim that a decision to bomb the camp would have rescued some 400,000 Hungarian Jews who were deported there in 1944 and 1945"

http://pages.prodigy.net/thomasn528/blog/2002_02_17_newsarcv.html

http://www.forward.com/issues/2001/01.04.06/news4.html

Interesting Bush is not mentioned in either article

 

Funny how every thread turns into a Bush-Bashing orgy.

 

www.georgewalkerbush.net/bushfamilyfundedhitler.htm

 

That's what happens when there is a failed presidency with two war debacles.

 

Ken why did they lie in the first article? And now why would you expect me to believe the second?

 

I linked to the articles simply to show the connection of Prescott Bush. I am not into the details of it as the subject really doesn't interest me.

But I saw no reason for someone to consider Henry Ford to be the biggest foreign supporter of the Nazi regime without some competition for the position. That's all.

If Henry Ford still "wins", that's fine with me. :smilewinkgrin:

 

This is highly offensive...americans paid for business to have a platform and a place to open.. with blood...did you get that Scott J...yes blood!
Americans died to have a free country for them and for business to thrive and you slap them in the face ..again!...you are pathetic...Americans and the American are the best and most productive in the world...take your illegals and stick them in your self righteous orifice.

the bottom line with illegals is people are getting rich off of them and they have no rights and so fear and someone throwing a dime into there crowd to see who wants it more...shame and I curse those in Jesus name who use them and talk traitorous about the American worker who has freedoms rights because of the blood of American patriots....my opinion but it is mixed with righteous indignation from ignorant people who forget the sacrifices of freedom.

Like I said highly offended by the post ...telling the lie about the American worker and his and her productivity. Someone is getting rich off of the backs of people who have no stake in this country and only really want to survive so they give into the taskmaster ..who they really hate privately.

Henry Ford regardless of his checkered past was correct in his ideas about wages...it really benefited a strong middle class ..and ladies and gentlemen if we lose the middle class we lose America.

 

They certainly shouldn't be engaging in a race to the bottom to see how low they drive wages, that's for sure, Terry. If their employees can't buy their products, then there is definitely a problem(unless the product is yachts and such like).

 

Actually, I responded about the subject matter of the thread, pretty darn good response, too. (You skipped that part) Then I brought up yer Nazi hero's "checkered" past.

This thread was screwed up frim the title.

 

I answered your questions, allready. Why won't you address my answers ? That's a much better debate technique than putting words in my mouth.

 

Being a pro-capitalism conservative christian I have to say that employers struggle to pay people living wages. Much of the time it is from greed. These employers want employees to give 60 to 70 hours a week for very little pay. And the employees have to work those long hours to make enough money not to be able to pay their bills.

At the same time the work ethic in this country has deteriated. Having been in management in the construction industry I had to deal with the "what have you done for me lately" mentality. No respect for employers, no respect for anyone. Moslty self-centered.

There are those employers who would like to pay a fair wage but cannot because of the lack of production from the only employees they can find.

Employers do not just have the wage to pay out. Overhead for most companies is very high and eats up the majority of profits. Wages, insurance both medical and workers comp (which is expensive), cost of maintaining vehicles, materials etc.

Having been part of the International Elevators Union I also know that labor unions are equally corrupt in many cases. The labor mantality here is get all I can from the company and do as little as possible for it. Then they work to recruit and force companies to become union without there consent or desire.

Some unions and sometimes unions provide a needed service and help to bring about a just and fair work situation.

But overall both ways of doing things can be and are corrupt. It is fool hardy to argue which is better. Systems are never really the answer as they are always corrupted by fauty sinful man.

There are always more details to consider when making these kinds of arguments. This debate has been lacking from the begining.

P.S.
The teachers Union is the most corrupt organization on the face of the earth!

 

And then you asked about Christian business owners, and I answered. You skipped over my answer, and accused me & another of screwing up your thread. Do you want to debate, or not ?

 

[/qb] This is highly offensive. The sacrifices were made to protect the rights and liberties of our people as defined by our Constitution. Among those rights are property rights, freedom of conscience, freedom of association, broad freedoms directly concerning enterprise, etc... The "platform and a place" are incidental to ideals that count as sacred the rights and sovereignty of the individual.

I have slapped absolutely no one in the face. If you can't deal with the truth that is YOUR problem not mine. I report what I have seen, witnessed, and know from acquaintances to be pretty much standard fare. At the lower end of the American labor pool, you have a class of people who have been taught by people like you that they have a "right" to get a "fair" wage regardless of whether they do a good job... or even have a job at all.

No. Pathetic is the political and social ideas spewed forth by people like you that have resulted in a fairly large class of people with very limited skills who think employers "owe" them a paycheck and are insulted at being asked to work as hard as a Mexican immigrant to get it.

The company I mentioned and myself personally would have paid the higher wage for even equal work... but not for work that would have put the company out of business resulting in job losses for close to 1000 other Americans that did the higher skill jobs.

I am an American and probably more of an idealist patriot than you even think you are... but this is sadly untrue- especially at the lower end of the labor pool. This is exactly why so many things in Walmart now bear the "Made in China" label. Their workers do it better, faster, and cheaper.

When did I say one word about "illegals"? I didn't... speak of self righteous? That would be you.

The workers I had came through a temp agency that bore the legal responsibility for verifying their status.

The bottom line is that those people were free to come and go as they pleased. No one forced them to work for us they did so voluntarily for an agreed upon wage... and did an exceptional job. FTR, I stepped on a number of toes within the company to get some of the ones who had worked with us the longest a $1.00/hr raise.

As for who is getting rich off them (hypocritically)... YOU ARE. If you shop at Target, Walmart, Exxon, KFC, RiteAid, or several other major retailers whose costs have been helped by paying less to companies like this one... thus passing lower prices on to YOU.

Have you ever read the parable about the penny wage? Where in that parable did Christ condemn the business owner who honestly offered a wage that was agreed to by the laborers? He didn't. He condemned those who whined about not being able to get more than they had agreed to out of the employer.

There is no such thing as a right to employment. That is a privilege extended by a property owner. The agreement between the owner and the employed is voluntarily agreed upon. A worker attempting to strip the owner of their rights by extorting more money out of them is no more "right" nor "noble" than if the employer attempted to enslave the employee.

Righteous indignation? Hardly. Unrighteous envy is more like it.

I told no lie. I reported exactly what I experienced and have very good reason was commonly experienced by others.

That is one of the most ridiculous and naive or else intentionally false things you've ever posted.

Wrong twice. His ideas about wages simply will not work in open competition. Secondly, a static middle class will sink the country. In fact, this whole "classism" ideal promoted by liberals who want to empower themselves is a lie. The only thing that will cause us to "lose America" is stripping people of their rights and liberties in the name of populism.

 

I don't consider myself a capitalist but instead a supporter of "free enterprise"... which I don't think capitalism always supports.

Moreover, I am a believer in the rights and liberties envisioned by the founders of our nation. They didn't recognize a "right" to employment. That is a marxist or humanist social engineering type of ideal.

The parables told by Christ show respect for property owner rights consistently.

No. A company has a responsibility to pay people what they agree to work for... see the parable Jesus told about the penny wage.

In a free enterprise system, wages are determined by what the work is worth. If one employer pays higher wages, he'll have an easier time getting workers and thus have a market advantage.

The problem is/was that some businesses (primarily capitalists) colluded to keep wages low contrary to free enterprise. The "treatment" for this problem was better than the disease but not as good as an actual "cure"... which would have been to protect and secure the rights of both the owner and employed.

 

FTR, What a Christian employer "should" pay and what he is responsible to pay to be morally "just" are not necessarily the same thing. Others said he should pay as the Spirit leads... I agree with that. However Jesus Himself affirmed that the employer is justifed in paying what the worker agrees to work for when both sides negotiate the deal honestly.

If I were an owner, I would probably tend toward group incentive types of "sharing the wealth" like bonuses based on profitability.

 

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?