Henry Morris KJV Study Bible

[Dwayne McDowell]

You're going by guesswork insteada firm empirical proof. Again, just Google the statement that 0ver 99% of all species that ever existed are now extinct.

If Noah had taken dinos, there'd be dinos now, or at least proof that they existed not long ago. And had people seen such gigantic critters asT-Rex or brontosaurus, there would be records & legends about them.

And again, God enabled us to discover the speeda light for a reason.

Dwayne: You keep talking about proof, but you don't present any. You seem to be ignoring that many cultures have traditions about dinosaurs (dragons) that existed long before we actually found dinosaur fossils. Look at almost any artwork from ancient China, and lots of cave drawings of native Americans from hundreds of years ago. And do you seriously expect us to believe that fossilized dinosaur bones would still contain soft tissue after being in the ground for 65 million years?

As for starlight, do you have any proof that God did not create the light waves from distant objects already reaching the Earth at the time He created it? I'm asking for PROOF, not more of your speculation. Just saying it is so doesn't make it true. And here is a quote from a scientist who is not a creationist, either YEC or OEC: "There has been in recent years the horrible realization that radio decay rates are not as constant as previously thought, nor are they immune to environmental influences. And this could mean that atomic clocks are reset during some global disaster, and events which brought the Mesozoic to a close may not be 65 million years ago but, rather, within the age and memory of man".

Maybe Jesus didn't say that the world is 6000 years old, but His Word does say that Adam was created on the sixth day of Earth's existence, and that Adam and Eve were from the beginning. We have a Biblical chronology from Adam to Christ, and while it may not be a complete chronology, there is nothing in Scripture that suggests that there is a significant amount of time that is not accounted for. So, if you have proof of anything to support your position I would love to hear it, but it must be PROOF. So far, you haven't provided any proof of your old Earth position.

 

[church mouse guy]

Know what "Bah ! Humbug!" means ?

Jesus never said the earth was only a few thousand years old.

And Moses proved it when he wrote that the spirit of God moved over THE FACE OF THE WATERS, showing earth was in existence before God started making the current arrangement.

ALL 'scientific' discoveries are made according to God's will. He enabled us to find the speeda light, how to calculate the approximate distances to interstellar objects. (As earth & all objects in the universe are moving at various speeds, it's impossible to calculate those distances with extreme accuracy.) He preserved fossils for us to find. And that's just the tippa the iceberg for PROOF of earth's great age.

You are so silly. The earth was covered with water twice. Once at Creation and once during Noah's Flood. Jesus speaks of the beginning of Creation but you yourself speak of the beginnings. I told you before that I believe Jesus and Moses and I do not believe you.

 

[37818]

As for starlight, do you have any proof that God did not create the light waves from distant objects already reaching the Earth at the time He created it?

That understanding of seeing a distant past undermines light as symbol of truth. That would be to see things that never ever really existed.

 

[robycop3]

You are so silly. The earth was covered with water twice. Once at Creation and once during Noah's Flood. Jesus speaks of the beginning of Creation but you yourself speak of the beginnings. I told you before that I believe Jesus and Moses and I do not believe you.

The silliness is all yours. You admit that the earth existed before God made the current arrangement of the surface. And you cannot show us where JESUS mentioned a young earth. And, in your goofiness, I don't care if you believe me or not, as YOUR view is 'way off.

 

[robycop3]

Dwayne: You keep talking about proof, but you don't present any. You seem to be ignoring that many cultures have traditions about dinosaurs (dragons) that existed long before we actually found dinosaur fossils. Look at almost any artwork from ancient China, and lots of cave drawings of native Americans from hundreds of years ago. And do you seriously expect us to believe that fossilized dinosaur bones would still contain soft tissue after being in the ground for 65 million years?

As for starlight, do you have any proof that God did not create the light waves from distant objects already reaching the Earth at the time He created it? I'm asking for PROOF, not more of your speculation. Just saying it is so doesn't make it true. And here is a quote from a scientist who is not a creationist, either YEC or OEC: "There has been in recent years the horrible realization that radio decay rates are not as constant as previously thought, nor are they immune to environmental influences. And this could mean that atomic clocks are reset during some global disaster, and events which brought the Mesozoic to a close may not be 65 million years ago but, rather, within the age and memory of man".

Maybe Jesus didn't say that the world is 6000 years old, but His Word does say that Adam was created on the sixth day of Earth's existence, and that Adam and Eve were from the beginning. We have a Biblical chronology from Adam to Christ, and while it may not be a complete chronology, there is nothing in Scripture that suggests that there is a significant amount of time that is not accounted for. So, if you have proof of anything to support your position I would love to hear it, but it must be PROOF. So far, you haven't provided any proof of your old Earth position.

If you drive thru the Appalachian Mts. you'll see undulating layers of rock that couldn't've been thus bent quickly without breaking. They were bent by millions of years of pressure. And geologists have found the "cutoff points' of many of those mountains where the rock has been eroded into soil. had that happened quickly, the detritus from erosion woulda been washed away insteada settling near where it was eroded from.

And coal doesn't form overnight. It tahes a LONG time for layers of dead plants to be compressed into coal. Before those layers become coal, they first become lignite, then subbituminous coal, bituminous coal, & then, anthracite, or hard coal. And the process is S-L-O-W !

And I believe the evidence of light & the great distance from us of interstellar objects is empirical & beyond reasonable question.

As for dragons, I believe a species of dino survived, especially since all depictions of dragons from civilizations that didn't meet in ancient times look fairly the same. As for fire-breathing, it likely came from a dragon breathing hard in chilly air, which caused vapor to form as happens with ourselves. (Naturally, it's unknown if the critters called dragons were warm-blooded or not. They may have been, as Beowulf's dragon enemy Grendel lived in a cold land.

But most dinos & many of the early, now-extinct mammals, were never seen by men. If men had seen such critters as saber-tooth cats, the gigantic baluchitherium, mammoths or mastodons, or the huge flightless birds such as diatryma, it woulda been recorded.

And in Antarctica, the remains of temperate-zone plants & grasses, have been recovered from deep in the ground, showing that at one time, the earth's surface was much-different from what it is now. In fact, the remnants os a WHOLE RAIN FOREST have been discovered in western Antarctica ! If you don't believe me, just Google it or consult an encyclopedia.

 

[church mouse guy]

The silliness is all yours. You admit that the earth existed before God made the current arrangement of the surface. And you cannot show us where JESUS mentioned a young earth. And, in your goofiness, I don't care if you believe me or not, as YOUR view is 'way off.

I have never said that anything existed before Genesis 1:1. I believe Moses and Jesus and I do not believe you.

 

[Dwayne McDowell]

If you drive thru the Appalachian Mts. you'll see undulating layers of rock that couldn't've been thus bent quickly without breaking. They were bent by millions of years of pressure. And geologists have found the "cutoff points' of many of those mountains where the rock has been eroded into soil. had that happened quickly, the detritus from erosion woulda been washed away insteada settling near where it was eroded from.

And coal doesn't form overnight. It tahes a LONG time for layers of dead plants to be compressed into coal. Before those layers become coal, they first become lignite, then subbituminous coal, bituminous coal, & then, anthracite, or hard coal. And the process is S-L-O-W !

And I believe the evidence of light & the great distance from us of interstellar objects is empirical & beyond reasonable question.

As for dragons, I believe a species of dino survived, especially since all depictions of dragons from civilizations that didn't meet in ancient times look fairly the same. As for fire-breathing, it likely came from a dragon breathing hard in chilly air, which caused vapor to form as happens with ourselves. (Naturally, it's unknown if the critters called dragons were warm-blooded or not. They may have been, as Beowulf's dragon enemy Grendel lived in a cold land.

But most dinos & many of the early, now-extinct mammals, were never seen by men. If men had seen such critters as saber-tooth cats, the gigantic baluchitherium, mammoths or mastodons, or the huge flightless birds such as diatryma, it woulda been recorded.

And in Antarctica, the remains of temperate-zone plants & grasses, have been recovered from deep in the ground, showing that at one time, the earth's surface was much-different from what it is now. In fact, the remnants os a WHOLE RAIN FOREST have been discovered in western Antarctica ! If you don't believe me, just Google it or consult an encyclopedia.

Dwayne: I have been in the Appalachian Mountains, and I now live in the Rocky Mountains. And once again you make statements that cannot be demonstrated to be true. The undulating layers you mentioned could certainly have folded before the sediments hardened into rock. And how long it takes for vegetation to form coal depends on how much heat and pressure it is subjected to. Coal can to turned into diamonds in the lab fairly quickly under the right conditions.

And once again you failed either to answer my direct question about whether God could have created light waves already in place from distant objects, and you state that the evidence from light is empirical beyond question - yet without offering anything more than your opinion.

While I agree that the Arctic and Antarctic were once temperate zones, the finding of a rain-forest in Antarctica is more compatible with the effects of a global flood than with any slow process.

So, I'll ask again. Can you provide PROOF for the things you claim to true?

 

[robycop3]

I have never said that anything existed before Genesis 1:1. I believe Moses and Jesus and I do not believe you.

Well,

But Gen. 1:2 says, 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

"The deep" & "the waters" show earth was already made when God began making the current arrangement.

As there were no men before this current arrangement, God didn't give any history of the earth before the current arrangement.

 

[church mouse guy]

Well,

But Gen. 1:2 says, 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

"The deep" & "the waters" show earth was already made when God began making the current arrangement.

As there were no men before this current arrangement, God didn't give any history of the earth before the current arrangement.

Not so. Moses said God made the earth. In verse 2, Moses said the earth was covered with water.

It was dark because God did not make the light first.

It will be covered with water again by Noah's Flood.

You believe in the gap theory of 300 years ago. It is not Biblical.

 

[robycop3]

Dwayne: I have been in the Appalachian Mountains, and I now live in the Rocky Mountains. And once again you make statements that cannot be demonstrated to be true. The undulating layers you mentioned could certainly have folded before the sediments hardened into rock. And how long it takes for vegetation to form coal depends on how much heat and pressure it is subjected to. Coal can to turned into diamonds in the lab fairly quickly under the right conditions.

And once again you failed either to answer my direct question about whether God could have created light waves already in place from distant objects, and you state that the evidence from light is empirical beyond question - yet without offering anything more than your opinion.

While I agree that the Arctic and Antarctic were once temperate zones, the finding of a rain-forest in Antarctica is more compatible with the effects of a global flood than with any slow process.

So, I'll ask again. Can you provide PROOF for the things you claim to true?

As 37818 wrote, if God had made light to give us the appearance of objects millions of years old, that would be a deception & an untruth, which God does not do.

And not all the folded layers of rock in the Appys are sedimentary. As for coal, lab conditions such as are used to make diamonds quickly don't exist in nature. And most coal is made from plants that are now extinct, or no longer live in places such West Virginia. And the flood of Noah woulda DESTROYED any rain forest then existing.

Another mystery you can't explain: I'm sure you're aware that several frozen woolly mammoth bodies have been found in Siberia. Most of those bodies show no trauma that coulda killed them, & some still had GRASS in their mouths, and grass doesn't grow min the areas where they were found. All evidence points to sudden deaths for those animals.

Not even the bitterest cold of Siberia coulda frozen those mammoths to death so quickly, and mammoths were well-equipped to survive in cold climes. SOMETHING hit them with SUPER-cold, hundreds of degrees below zero, that almost-instantly killed them & froze their bodies, some, UPRIGHT. I believe that was GOD, altering earth before the events of Gen.1. Care to offer any other feasible theory ?

 

[robycop3]

Not so. Moses said God made the earth. In verse 2, Moses said the earth was covered with water.

It was dark because God did not make the light first.

It will be covered with water again by Noah's Flood.

You believe in the gap theory of 300 years ago. It is not Biblical.

Yes, the earth was covered with water til God made the current land arrangement. From fossils & core samples, we have some idea of prehistoric land & sea arrangements.

 

[church mouse guy]

As 37818 wrote, if God had made light to give us the appearance of objects millions of years old, that would be a deception & an untruth, which God does not do.

And not all the folded layers of rock in the Appys are sedimentary. As for coal, lab conditions such as are used to make diamonds quickly don't exist in nature. And most coal is made from plants that are now extinct, or no longer live in places such West Virginia. And the flood of Noah woulda DESTROYED any rain forest then existing.

Another mystery you can't explain: I'm sure you're aware that several frozen woolly mammoth bodies have been found in Siberia. Most of those bodies show no trauma that coulda killed them, & some still had GRASS in their mouths, and grass doesn't grow min the areas where they were found. All evidence points to sudden deaths for those animals.

Not even the bitterest cold of Siberia coulda frozen those mammoths to death so quickly, and mammoths were well-equipped to survive in cold climes. SOMETHING hit them with SUPER-cold, hundreds of degrees below zero, that almost-instantly killed them & froze their bodies, some, UPRIGHT. I believe that was GOD, altering earth before the events of Gen.1. Care to offer any other feasible theory ?

The mammoths were trapped in dust storms at the end of the ice age. They died of suffocation. You can drop the science fiction because everyone agrees that it didn't get that cold.

 

[church mouse guy]

Yes, the earth was covered with water til God made the current land arrangement. From fossils & core samples, we have some idea of prehistoric land & sea arrangements.

Absurd. Even secular geologists agree that the current arrangement of the continents is not the original arrangement. Your pre-world war science is obsolete.

 

[robycop3]

The mammoths were trapped in dust storms at the end of the ice age. They died of suffocation. You can drop the science fiction because everyone agrees that it didn't get that cold.

No, the mammoths whose bodies have been found almost intact did NOT die from dust storms; no such evidence was found. And the cellular evidence shows they were QUICK-FROZEN, by temperatures colder than are found on earth. Science believes some sorta atmospheric aberration killed & froze them, & the temp remained cole enoughto keep them frozen. If you don't believe me, just Google it for yourself.

And, how do you explain GRASS being found in the mouths & stomachs of some, when grass doesn't live in those areas ?

 

[robycop3]

Absurd. Even secular geologists agree that the current arrangement of the continents is not the original arrangement. Your pre-world war science is obsolete.

Can you READ?

I just wrote that the arrangement of the continents is NOT the same as it useta be !

 

[church mouse guy]

No, the mammoths whose bodies have been found almost intact did NOT die from dust storms; no such evidence was found. And the cellular evidence shows they were QUICK-FROZEN, by temperatures colder than are found on earth. Science believes some sorta atmospheric aberration killed & froze them, & the temp remained cole enoughto keep them frozen. If you don't believe me, just Google it for yourself.

And, how do you explain GRASS being found in the mouths & stomachs of some, when grass doesn't live in those areas ?

Right. You are a uniformitarianist until you need something special from space that quick froze the mammoths but nothing else. Never mind that they were found in piles of dust like a house in the Oklahoma dust bowl. Your science is millions and millions of years obsolete.

 

[church mouse guy]

Can you READ?

I just wrote that the arrangement of the continents is NOT the same as it useta be !

You were writing about prehistoric land and there is no such thing.

 

[church mouse guy]

The mammoths were trapped in dust storms at the end of the ice age. They died of suffocation. You can drop the science fiction because everyone agrees that it didn't get that cold.

That should have been stated that they were trapped at the beginning of the ice age after the Flood.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 2:55 AM Pacific.

 

[Dwayne McDowell]

As 37818 wrote, if God had made light to give us the appearance of objects millions of years old, that would be a deception & an untruth, which God does not do.

And not all the folded layers of rock in the Appys are sedimentary. As for coal, lab conditions such as are used to make diamonds quickly don't exist in nature. And most coal is made from plants that are now extinct, or no longer live in places such West Virginia. And the flood of Noah woulda DESTROYED any rain forest then existing.

Another mystery you can't explain: I'm sure you're aware that several frozen woolly mammoth bodies have been found in Siberia. Most of those bodies show no trauma that coulda killed them, & some still had GRASS in their mouths, and grass doesn't grow min the areas where they were found. All evidence points to sudden deaths for those animals.

Not even the bitterest cold of Siberia coulda frozen those mammoths to death so quickly, and mammoths were well-equipped to survive in cold climes. SOMETHING hit them with SUPER-cold, hundreds of degrees below zero, that almost-instantly killed them & froze their bodies, some, UPRIGHT. I believe that was GOD, altering earth before the events of Gen.1. Care to offer any other feasible theory ?

Dwayne: As this thread is about to be closed I'll make only two comments regarding your post:
1. The issue with starlight is not that those stars are ancient, but that they are distant. Genesis clearly states that those stars were created after the Earth was created. So it is no deception on God's part that He allows us to see them, but to claim that the stars are older than the Earth is to call God a liar.
2. I agree with your assessment of the frozen mammoths, except for the last line. There is no Biblical indication of gap you imply. You are determined to interpret the unchanging Word of God by the ever changing dictates of science. If you had lived a few hundred years ago you would be arguing just as vehemently that the Earth was the center of the solar system, and you would be just as wrong.