Herd Behaviour?

[mioque]

There is money to be made and popularitypoints to be scored by backing, or opposing a popular fad.
Harry Potter is the classical example. Compared to a lot of other children's books it's downright wholesome.
Potter is extremely popular however, so anti-Potterbooks (and pro-Potter books) are the one's being written.
Narnia is similar. Some Christian leaders score points by attacking Lewis (who apparently said something questionable on a radioshow once that ended up buried in one of his books) proving their doctrinal purety. Other Christian leaders score points by supporting Narnia, aligning themselves with both the great C.S. Lewis and the popular Christin fad du jour.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by mioque:
There is money to be made and popularitypoints to be scored by backing, or opposing a popular fad.
Harry Potter is the classical example. Compared to a lot of other children's books it's downright wholesome.
Potter is extremely popular however, so anti-Potterbooks (and pro-Potter books) are the one's being written.
Narnia is similar. Some Christian leaders score points by attacking Lewis (who apparently said something questionable on a radioshow once that ended up buried in one of his books) proving their doctrinal purety. Other Christian leaders score points by supporting Narnia, aligning themselves with both the great C.S. Lewis and the popular Christin fad du jour.

Agreed. Good observation mioque. Opposing fads to appear "holy" is just as much a fad as the fad themselves.

 

[just-want-peace]

Martin, I feel certain that I see your point - not Narnia, not Lewis, not PDL/PDC etc., etc.!

It can be anything at any time that is suddenly the "CHRISTIAN PC" equivalent that "demands" that for you to be "HOLY" you must support.

Do I get your drift?

If so, I feel the same reluctance to embrace all the "get better", "become a better husband/wife/mom/dad/neighbor/mentor" or whatever the current spiritual/personal/sexual/marriage/parenting--- problem is that is in vogue at the time.

As an old codger, I've attended many of these in the past, but 99% of them (maybe my fault?) seemed totally useless the first few days after completion. I've given up on all the offerings now unless I feel a direct word from God to participate.

As you stated, too much of all this seems to be the "herd mentality", and I've now seperated from the herd and feel very free to relate to God as He seems to lead me!

Nowhere near as stressful as trying to be all things to all ministers.

As Popeye used to say, "I yam what I yam!"

And if that's a problem for you, then that's your problem; I'm satisfied with my relation with God, and that's all that matters.

 

[blackbird]

Whats even more spookier than the "Herd" chasin' Narnia???


Is-----what they will chase next????

Jesus posed the question that goes something like this

If they do all that in a green tree---what will they do in a dry tree????

Herding sheep is a tricky business---but its getting to where if the pastor(undershepherd) doesn't herd according to the herds desire---the herd will "stampeed"----hang in there preachers---don't fall for "Dime Store" theology---don't get your theology from a box of Cracker Jack's!! Dive into the infallable, inerrant, inspired word from the Word----give your herd green pasture from the word and watch the other pastures around you brown up and then burn up for lack of spiritual rain!!!

 

[rsr]

Originally posted by Martin:
I am talking about the problem of the people who run out to buy this stuff and how the leaders need to be more responsible.

I fully agree with you on that.

I do not consider the release of the Narnia movie some fantastic boon to evangelism. I would not encourage a church to adopt curriculum based on Narnia, but I would not be averse to pointing out the symbolism of the movie to churchgoers who asked about it.

And although I don't agree with pinning great hopes on the movie, I find its theology much more orthodox than the usual religiosity that is provided by movies and television, such as Highway to Heaven and Touched by an Angel, which I considered far, far more objectionable.

The usual Hollywood plan has been to toss in a little vague godliness, or at least goodness that we can call godliness, here and there and see who laps it up. Narnia, at least, does not do that. Aslan is no "tame lion" to be molded to our whims and preconceptions.

I don't like fads, though I admit to having been caught up in one or two as a young person. (I was an avid reader of Hal Lindsey until it dawned on me that he had no idea what he was talking about), but have successfully avoided The Prayer of Jabez,, Left Behind (in all its multitudinous incarnations), The Passion of the Christ (partly because of the source texts and mostly because I didn't want to see that much blood), and any version of being purpose driven.

I have been reading Lewis for 30 years or so and am well aware of his shortcomings — and also of his strengths. To me, his strengths outweigh his weaknesses because some of his insights really resonated with me. To others, they may not. So be it.

[ December 11, 2005, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: rsr ]

 

[bubba jimmy]

I hope we don't start to view our own righteousness in terms of what we do or do not partake in, whether entertainment or what ever. Our righteousness does not come from our behavior. When ever a movie is made from a book, the movie causes renewed interest in the book. If you want to make a movie about a book, isn't a book loosely structured around the gospel message (told as fiction for children) a reasonable choice. C.S. Lewis was a Christian (an imperfect one like me) writer. I'd love to see more movies made from fiction written by Christians rather than most of the stuff that gets made into movies.

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by Martin:
People herded out to buy them without investigation first. That shows a lack of discernment.

How do you know this to be true? Have you spoken to them all?

 

[tinytim]

Originally posted by bubba jimmy:
I hope we don't start to view our own righteousness in terms of what we do or do not partake in, whether entertainment or what ever. Our righteousness does not come from our behavior. When ever a movie is made from a book, the movie causes renewed interest in the book. If you want to make a movie about a book, isn't a book loosely structured around the gospel message (told as fiction for children) a reasonable choice. C.S. Lewis was a Christian (an imperfect one like me) writer. I'd love to see more movies made from fiction written by Christians rather than most of the stuff that gets made into movies.

That reminds me of all the Christians that complain about Disney movies.
Then Disney finally makes a movie with Christian themes and people still complain.
What do you want people?
The Isrealites were never satisfied either.

 

[tinytim]

Originally posted by blackbird:
Dive into the infallable, inerrant, inspired word from the Word----give your herd green pasture from the word and watch the other pastures around you brown up and then burn up for lack of spiritual rain!!!

...Then when you become popular for teaching something the church can use you can start your own wave and be critised by all that don't like your success.

 

[tenor]

"Herd behavior" has been going on for years, possibly centuries. Fads have come and fads have gone.

Th main difference is that now we are able to get to the masses much more quickly.

Change has always been a constant and a fact - the speed of change is what seems to bother us today.

As to the tables of materials in the bookstores, they are there to make a profit, to sell waht people want, there is nothing wrong with this.

"Anti" fads can be and probably are just as faddish as "pro" fads.

 

[tenor]

Originally posted by Martin:
Some of those are good others are not but they are all fads. It does not matter when they were written they were fads. People herded out to buy them without investigation first. That shows a lack of discernment.
Martin.

How can we know whether they are good or not until we have a chance to look at them and study them for ourselves?

Should we then steal them so we don't have to buy them?

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Martin:
This lack of discernment is damaging the church.

Few churches are making disciples because it is work and requires obedience.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by tinytim:

What do you want people?

Something to complain about and follow the herd.

 

[Brother Ian]

Martin,

You raise a good point. I have been a Christian for 22 years and have observed many fads.

I think there is a prevailing philosophy that if a lot of Christians are doing something, it must be okay. We know this is not necessarily true.

I also advise caution. One area that concerns me is the "Worship" movement. I am disturbed by what I see people calling worship. Many people believe you have to have "worship music" in order to truly worship which is, of course, a fallacy. Music has taken a front seat to the preaching and teaching of God's Word so much that in some churches today, we have an hour of music and 20 minutes of preaching.

I had a woman tell me that her family joined our church because of the music. It breaks my heart that my church is known for the music we have rather than the preaching and teaching we have.

Just so you don't think I'm against music, I play first trumpet in our orchestra and am the brass section leader. I am not against music or worship music or choruses, but we must have a balance.

Sorry for my digression, but Martin has identified an area that requires caution.

 

[blackbird]

Originally posted by Brother Ian:
Martin,

You raise a good point. I have been a Christian for 22 years and have observed many fads.

I think there is a prevailing philosophy that if a lot of Christians are doing something, it must be okay. We know this is not necessarily true.

I also advise caution. One area that concerns me is the "Worship" movement. I am disturbed by what I see people calling worship. Many people believe you have to have "worship music" in order to truly worship which is, of course, a fallacy. Music has taken a front seat to the preaching and teaching of God's Word so much that in some churches today, we have an hour of music and 20 minutes of preaching.

I had a woman tell me that her family joined our church because of the music. It breaks my heart that my church is known for the music we have rather than the preaching and teaching we have.

Just so you don't think I'm against music, I play first trumpet in our orchestra and am the brass section leader. I am not against music or worship music or choruses, but we must have a balance.

Sorry for my digression, but Martin has identified an area that requires caution.

Amen, Brother Ian!! Preaching of the word from the Word is the highest form of worship to God! I preach "in the face of Jesus Christ"---a careful examination of 2Corinthians 4:1-6 is a must for those who's preaching is placed in #1 priority in the worship experience! If we fail in preaching----everything else we do is vain!!

 

[Mexdeaf]

My favorite word is 'balance'.

I can appreciate the fads, but I don't allow them to take control of my life or ministry. I won't hop on the WWJD or Passion bandwagons. Same with the 'Thirty or fourty days of whatever' programs. (What we need are some '365 days of being faithful' Christians.)

To build a solid Christian life you must have balance. A good scale (balance) needs a level and firm foundation to work correctly- our level and firm foundation is the Bible. Anything outside of that or that co-opts it, is sinking sand.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by blackbird:
Preaching of the word from the Word is the highest form of worship to God! I preach "in the face of Jesus Christ"---a careful examination of 2Corinthians 4:1-6 is a must for those who's preaching is placed in #1 priority in the worship experience! If we fail in preaching----everything else we do is vain!!

Do a word study and you will find that to worship is not preaching. Worship does not stem from preaching at all. Worship is our response to God. It is not what a preacher says. Non-christians can preach and teach what the Bible teaches and not believe one word of it. Non-believers do not worship God.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Brother Ian:


I think there is a prevailing philosophy that if a lot of Christians are doing something, it must be okay. We know this is not necessarily true.

If people from both sides are shooting at you then you are probably right where you should be.

 

[Brother Ian]

Preaching can be a form of worship. True worship is response to Truth. When I preach, I am worshipping because I am responding to the Truths in Scripture which I pray will lead the people to worship by responding to the Truth they are hearing.

By contrast, many things people call worship is not worship at all. Just because one is listening to "worship music" does not mean they are worshipping.

One last pet peave and then I'm done. . . . I despise when we move into the "worship" time in our service. It may only be semantics, but our associate pastor will pray after the offering and say something like, "As we move into our worship time. . . ." What were we doing when we were singing hymns and praying????