Here's Something That Will Make You Think!!Here's Something That Will Make You Think!

[Inquiring Mind]

Sky Pair said: Watch this!!

http://www.youtube.com/v/SmLhyPjHVes

Baptist Believer said: Wow! Almost everyone in the room were unbelievers, even the preacher!

Because Matthew 24 (which they were obviously referencing) actually teaches that those who trust God will remain (like Noah and his family), and those who do not trust will be taken (like those swept away and drowned in the flood).

Yes, I know that contradicts a lot of popular teaching on the rapture, but I have to go with what Jesus actually taught instead of what popular preachers and authors teach:

Matthew 24

37 "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
38 "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
40 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
41 "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
42 "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming."

Are you ready to rumble!

 

[bound]

In nomine Ieus I offer you peace,

Rumble about what exactly?

Pax

 

[Brother Bob]

Same was true with Lot, he was saved when the fire and brimstone came and destroyed all the rest in the city.

Luke 17;
"28": Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

"29": But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

"30": Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[Inquiring Mind]

Same was true with Lot, he was saved when the fire and brimstone came and destroyed all the rest in the city.

Luke 17;
"28": Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

"29": But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

"30": Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

I just love that refution. Keep up the good work.

 

[Inquiring Mind]

In nomine Ieus I offer you peace,

Rumble about what exactly?

Pax

Rumble (Debate)!

 

[Brother Bob]

refution????

I think I understand now it is because I go against the most popular belief on the Scripture, right?

I go against most of our Chruch Associations and their belief on these Scriptures. I sent this question to several Theology

Colleges and they put it before their classes. Most responses were against me but some after reveiwing the Scripture deeper

replied that they could see where I was right.

Yes, I know that contradicts a lot of popular teaching on the rapture, but I have to go with what Jesus actually taught instead of what popular preachers and authors teach:

 

[bound]

Rumble (Debate)!

Yeah I understand you wish to debate but concerning what exactly? As I reflect on that passage I believe it speaks about the Day of Judgment not any PretribRapture so I'm not sure what your point is?

Pax

 

[webdog]

For those or you who think the lost will be raptured...and believers left behind...how do you coincide this with 1 and 2 Thessalonians? It totally contradicts.

 

[Inquiring Mind]

Yeah I understand you wish to debate but concerning what exactly? As I reflect on that passage I believe it speaks about the Day of Judgment not any PretribRapture so I'm not sure what your point is?

Pax

Exactly, that is what to be debated.

 

[Chemnitz]

Can't say as it was exactly thought inspiring. Just one more popular misrepresentation of the Bible.

 

[Brother Bob]

For those or you who think the lost will be raptured...and believers left behind...how do you coincide this with 1 and 2 Thessalonians? It totally contradicts

We are just saying Webdog that these passages are talking about the world getting caught in their sins.

We believe the Saved will be raptured up and the unsaved left to be punished, its just that these passages according to what Jesus said is those that were caught unawares and the theif was able to break into their houses is one way to put it. Another is that "death overtook them in their sins" and another is the Lord came and time ceased and they were caught in their sins. Hope I making it clear.

What I am saying and I am sure its what the others are saying also is that when the reaper came through and the blood was not applied to the lental and door post the first born was taken.
Also, when the reaper or destruction comes through if you don't have the blood of Christ applied to your soul you will be taken in your sins. Jesus said as in the days of Noah when the flood came and took them away while they were all busy sinning and not aware that the end was there.

 

[webdog]

Whew! Thanks for explaining Brother Bob...I was sweating there for a moment!

 

[BobRyan]

Same was true with Lot, he was saved when the fire and brimstone came and destroyed all the rest in the city.

Luke 17;
"28": Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

"29": But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

"30": Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

When the Son of man "is revealed" Parousia - (at the Rapture event we see in 1Thess 4 and again we see the same event in Rev 19) then as you say - the saints are raptured up - taken out and those who are left are destroyed as you say - just as the city of Sodom was wiped out - JUST as Rev 19 says "The REST were KILLED by the sword that came from His mouth".

So they are not correct in showing those left - to NOT be destroyed as was Sodom -

And PAX is right about one thing - the door of the ark closes BEFORE the RAIN falls. And while it is true that when the rain falls (the visible 2nd coming) it is a big shock - rapture and then lots of destruction upon those left -- it is ALSO true that the "door was shut" BEFORE the second coming - BEFORE the rain falls the door of the ark closes.

We see that door close at the end of Rev 15 "AND THEN" the 7 last plagues (Rev 16) and THEN the 2nd coming and Rapture event of Matt 24 (also seein in Rev 19).

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

BobRyan,

"When the Son of man "is revealed" Parousia - (at the Rapture event we see in 1Thess 4 and again we see the same event in Rev 19) then as you say - the saints are raptured up - taken out and those who are left are destroyed as you say - just as the city of Sodom was wiped out - JUST as Rev 19 says "The REST were KILLED by the sword that came from His mouth".

So they are not correct in showing those left - to NOT be destroyed as was Sodom -

And PAX is right about one thing - the door of the ark closes BEFORE the RAIN falls. And while it is true that when the rain falls (the visible 2nd coming) it is a big shock - rapture and then lots of destruction upon those left -- it is ALSO true that the "door was shut" BEFORE the second coming - BEFORE the rain falls the door of the ark closes.

We see that door close at the end of Rev 15 "AND THEN" the 7 last plagues (Rev 16) and THEN the 2nd coming and Rapture event of Matt 24 (also seein in Rev 19)."


GE:
What is the difference between you rapturists? The one (group) believes a stay-behind on earth going on today; the other (group - SDA) believes a stay 'up in heaven' after the second coming. To me both talk nonsense simply.

Jesus will come again; it will be judgement day; evil men are destroyed (in hell); the earth is made new; the redeemed inherit it; Christ is with them and they are where He is for evermore. Old Christian Faith and Doctrine. What do you wish better or more for?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

BobRyan:
"We see that door close at the end of Rev 15 "AND THEN" the 7 last plagues (Rev 16) "

GE:
The door that closes is Christ coming to this earth from 'heaven'; "and then the 7 last plagues (Rev 16)" - God's judgement upon the wicked - are meeted out. Then the end and then a new beginning and a new creation and a new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness for evermore. Amen, Lord Jesus, come!

 

[Brother Bob]

BR;
This passage says the flood took them away and its talking about those sinning.

"38": For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

"39": And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

It is very easy to think of this as the rapture for that is what first comes to mind and sounds the best but to carefully study the passage it is talking about getting caught in your sins. Jesus coming at an hour you think not when they shall be marrying and giving in marriage.

These passages are simply saying "Jesus will come at an hour ye think not".

If you believe otherwise then we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Marcia]

Why can't the one being "taken" refer to being taken away from God's wrath, as Noah was? Those remaining are judged (as in Noah's day when the wicked remained while the rains came and Noah was taken in the ark).

From NET Bible commentary

There is debate among commentators and scholars over the phrase one will be taken and one left about whether one is taken for judgment or for salvation. If the imagery is patterned after the rescue of Noah from the flood, as some suggest, the ones taken are the saved (as Noah was) and those left behind are judged. The imagery, however, is not directly tied to the identification of the two groups. Its primary purpose in context is to picture the sudden, surprising separation of the righteous and the judged (i.e., condemned) at the return of the Son of Man.

 

[Brother Bob]

I never new there was even a debate about this subject several years ago but while reading the Scripture again I saw what I believe now and sent it to several Bible colleges and different Theologians for their take on this passage. The responses I received back were in the majority on the side you suggest but there were those who saw it as I do. Some even sent me their answers much later saying it was a good question and they needed all that time to study it.

quote by Marcia:
Why can't the one being "taken" refer to being taken away from God's wrath, as Noah was? Those remaining are judged (as in Noah's day when the wicked remained while the rains came and Noah was taken in the ark).


For most I think it is and then there are people like me that read the other side of the coin which "those taken" were the ones taken by the flood in their sins.

For thirty years I looked at it as you suggested Marcia until one day I was reading the Scripture again for, who knows how many times and saw where those taken, were taken by the flood and also the part that stuck with me was they were taken unawares.
__________________

Marcia;
Anyway of knowing when this was written?

From NET Bible commentary

Quote:

There is debate among commentators and scholars over the phrase one will be taken and one left about whether one is taken for judgment or for salvation. If the imagery is patterned after the rescue of Noah from the flood, as some suggest, the ones taken are the saved (as Noah was) and those left behind are judged. The imagery, however, is not directly tied to the identification of the two groups. Its primary purpose in context is to picture the sudden, surprising separation of the righteous and the judged (i.e., condemned) at the return of the Son of Man.

 

[Brother Bob]

Here is something worth studying on the Flood!

"'As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the
days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage,
up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen
until the flood came and took [airo] them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of
the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken [paralambano] and the
other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken [paralambano]
and the other left (Matthew 24:37-41).'
"The difference between these Greek words is important.
"• Airo means 'to take away, put away, loose, and remove.' [Strong's G142]
• Paralambano means "to receive near, i.e., associate with oneself (in any familiar or
intimate act or relation); receive, take unto, take with." [Strong's G3880]

When the flood came Noah had already taken his family and all the animals into the ark and the

flood came and took those in their sins. (Scripture says flood took (airo) them away. (airo means to put away)

I want to make it clear that I believe that the Lord will come and take his children home to Heaven and will send destruction upon the devil and all the unbelievers.

 

[Joe90]

In reply to the very first post:

It will NOT be like that at all...

2 Peter 3:10

10 But the day of the Lord will come AS A THIEF IN THE NIGHT; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Remember the last time the Lord came they missed that too. They believed they crucified a common criminal...