Heresy?: Calvinism or Arminianism

I don't know rc...back a few weeks ago or so I said something about the proper way to interpret Scripture and mentioned rules of grammar, etc. and a few of these characters jumped down my back trying to discredit what I said.

I agree with you about rules of grammar, etc. but how come nobody is jumping down your back?

 

KJ you didn't notice that I have?

For shame, Mayby I should have shouted!

 

Wes,
You not only do not know grammar but go against grammer! I have asked you many times to EXPLAIN the grammer of the text and you never once explained them... and you can't. You do not even believe that the Subject and the verb of a sentance have to AGREE ! This is 4th grade grammer in ANY LANGUAGE.

 

Wes, I don't remember you coming to back me up when certain individuals tried to make me look stupid for posting a well known rule of biblical interpretation. If you did, then I am sorry. Yeah...you should have shouted. But...no need to now.

 

What rule was that KJ?

 

Where in scriptures does it say one must be a language major to understand scripture's meaning? Where does it say one must be a professional linguist to receive God's message?

Get off you grammer high horse and read for meaning, not for grammar! We do not find this among unbelievers, only among believer's. It is the old, "My dog's bigger than your dog" routine. And all I see is the linguists with their hind leg up watering either a post, or those upon whom they want to leave their signature thus staking out their territory!

 

I wish my time did not have to be divided between posting and working but unfortunately I cannot be here all the time like I would like to be.

This whole discussion has departed the topic. Is there are particular reason to continue it?

 

rc...that you interpret Scripture in light of historical and grammatical rules and in context.

Wes...be glad you can work. I am laid off and collect more in unemployment than I can in any other job. I am about to shout at my boss.

 

I'm sorry that you are out of work, KJ. I am looking at the same prospect within the next 60 days myself, we're running out of work and funded hours.

 

A person that teaches is to be TRAINED in the WORDS of the FAITH Wes. Well TAUGHT. NOT STRAYING with EVERY WIND of DOCTRINE.

Being trained in the WORDS.... WEs... what do you think the REASON for proper GRAMMAR is? FOR a PROPER conveyance of MEANINGFUL THOUGHT!

That's why you have improper understanding of texts because you are not allowing the grammar to dictate your meaning but you are destroying the grammar to hold onto your presuppositions.

That's why I proved my point before when I said "WE" and you assumed I INCLUDED you. Then I made it a joke by saying NO I meant me and the Apostles not YOU. Showing you the HUGE problem you have when you don't let the grammar DICTATE the meaning.

 

Thanks Wes...I hope things work out for you.

 

Actually rc...I myself assumed you were including Wes when you did that. I see what you did and it was effective...just use some grace in your approach ok?

 

Sorry KJ...

I will try... I'm such a little sinner... well big sinner... gained 10lbs in June! ha !

 

I think I'm gonna gain ten pounds in July/August.

I hope I didn't offend you by saying to try and use some grace. I myself don't at times but it is only when I'm arguing. I guess...I just don't see you and Wes as really "arguing" and since I thought the same thing as he did...well you know...

 

I made no such assumption. I had no reason to make such an assumption.

The "we" in Ephesians 1:3-12 is Paul describing the first generation believers. Those in Ephesus and ALL who are not Apostles are not included in "we" in that passage of Scripture.

If you ever read it with the understanding that Paul is talking ABOUT the Apostles and the beginning of the church and what Salvation is, Your eyes will pop wide open with amazement that you did not understand the truth before. That understanding will provide you with a better perspective of what Paul is telling the Ephesians.

 

I never use grace because it is not grace that saves!

 

LOL that was funny Wes...but that quote...I was talking to rc.

 

You just committed eisogesis Wes. You have to let the TEXT dictate WHO he was talking about. YOU are interjecting meaning INTO the text that just isn't there. Can't you see that?

Let's say you NEVER read any other book in the Bible and you read Ephesians for the first time.
After reading the first chapter, would you honestly be saying "Gee, who is Paul talking about here in the first 13 verses? He is obviously talking about someone else here but I don't know who!"
NO you wouldn't. You would take it as it is INTENDED. The WE and the US ALWAYS refers to the ones written TO ! Every person knows the 1st person plural INCLUDES the people talked to. PLEASE refrain from this horrible rendering!

 

If I'd never opened a bible before, I certainly would not start in Ephesians, that obscure little letter some where near the end of the bible.

Indeed, I would start in Matthew, because most likely I would have been handed a pocket new testament. By the time I got to Ephesians, I would have read John 17 so that I knew all about the Apostles, and especially what Jesus, who by now, is known to me to be God the Son had to say about them. I would have learned all about Peter's confession of who Jesus is. And I would have known by now of all the miracles perform by spirit filled men that we call the Apostles. And in light of the common knowledge available in secular circles that there is a church, I would by now know how the church got started and I would know all about the missionary trips of the Apostles to those dogs the gentiles.

So here I am at Ephesians Chapter 1, and Paul greets me with verses 1 and 2, then starts telling me all about the beginning of the Church and about the mystery of Salvation. I would expect Paul to reiterate to me some of what I already know from reading the gospels in order, then the Acts of the Apostles, followed by Romans, the two letters to the Corinthians, and the letter to the Galations. So it would not surprise me to hear what I've already heard before getting into the meat of His letter to the Ephesians.

Perhaps you should try it the way I do.

 

Is one plus one two in your world Wes? Or is it three because you think it is so?

No more on your foolishness. I will not answer you according to your folly.