heresy or opinion

[The Archangel]

Archangel, I've much respect not only for your skill and knowledge with the word, but also for the Christian demeanor that you maintain when you post. I wish you posted more often. But I also wish you would have provided some scripture here that articulates your definition of 'heresy', particularly when you make a statement such as, “something in which you believe that will deposit you in the very bowels of hell.” I don't agree with you on this.

Maybe I'm one of those that you consider has thrown the word heresy around “like it were rice at a wedding”, but I don't assign the gravity to the word that you evidently do, i.e., heretics aren't necessarily unregenerate, and, God's redeemed can indeed be deceived. Even Hymenaeus and Alexander, who had made shipwreck of the faith, were turned over to Satan 'that they might be taught'. The man in 1 Cor 5:5 was turned over to Satan but 'his spirit was still yet to be saved.'

“Of course, we know that the law is good if a person uses it legitimately, that is, if he understands that the law is not intended for righteous people but for lawbreakers and rebels, for ungodly people and sinners, for those who are unholy and irreverent, for those who kill their fathers, their mothers, or other people, for those involved in sexual immorality, for homo*sexuals, for kidnappers, for liars, for false witnesses, and for whatever else goes against the healthy teaching that agrees with the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.” 1 Tim 1:8-11 ISV
http://isv.scripturetext.com/1_timothy/1.htm

I define heresy as any dogma that goes against the healthy teaching of the gospel, of which I consider dispensationalism to be just that. It has morphed into a myriad of some very unwholesome, destructive notions that have crossed over into the political realm and has become a potent force propelling us toward [more] war. And there's much more that could be said, but I'll leave off, for now.

kyredneck,

I appreciate your very kind words, friend. As is often the case a well-meant phrase written by me is questioned by an astute reader, such as yourself, and I notice something that I should have mentioned...and this is one such case.

Do I think that believing in heresy will lead to hell? Yes. But remember, I have a very narrow definition of heresy. A heresy is a denial of a first-order issue--like the divinity of Christ or the resurrection. If one does not believe that Christ was actually raised from the dead, that person simply is not a Christian. If one does not believe Christ to be God-in-the-flesh, that person simply is not a Christian.

If I had been more careful, as I should have been, I might have phrased it this way: Heresy is something in which you persist in believing that will deposit you in the very bowels of hell.

It is important to remember, strictly speaking, we all start off as rebellious heretics. As far as believers go, some have fallen into heresy only to be rescued by concerned brothers and sister. Some have fallen into heresy and have demonstrated that they were never believers in the first place. Again, it is not how one starts the race of faith, it is how one finishes that matters.

As far as scripture is concerned, I'll offer two passages.

1. Romans 10:9
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (ESV)

This passage clearly shows that one who denies that Christ was raised from the dead cannot be a believer. To believe in some heresy that denies the actual, bodily resurrection of Christ and to persist in believing the heresy is to show yourself to be a non-believer.

It is also likely that the phrase "confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord" is intended to be understood as saying "confess with your mouth that Jesus is Yahweh." Therefore, to say that Christ was not or is not God is to deny the faith and show yourself to be a non-believer.

2. Galatians 1:6-9
[6] I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—[7] not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
[8] But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. [9] As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. (ESV)

In this passage, Paul pronounces a curse (anathema) on those preaching a false Gospel. In the context of Galatians, it is likely the "false gospel" was the "gospel" of the Judaizers which preached the "works" of the law.

When Paul says "let him be accursed" it is VERY strong language condemning those holding to and teaching the false gospel to hell...and Paul makes the statement twice.

In the Galatians passage it is clear that any perversion of Paul's Gospel--salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone--is not a mere "oops." Rather it is a matter of eternal damnation. Because to hold a gospel other than the true gospel is to believe in Heresy as defined by Scripture itself--a rejection of one or more of the non-negotiables of the Christian faith.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

[convicted1]

The only belief of yours that I have ever questioned is your belief that at the Transfiguration, the light from Elijah, Moses and Christ came from EverReady batteries.

YOU'RE A LIAR, AND YOU KNOW IT!!! I said Duracell and not everready....get your facts straight, Jack, before you post.....:laugh: J/K

 

[convicted1]

Did you hear about the cow who could not give milk? It was an utter failure.

What do you call a cow that can't give milk? A "milk dud".....:laugh:

 

[kyredneck]

... The problem is too many get opinion and sound doctrine mixed up. ....Heresey should be reserved for a position that is obviously at odds with a fundemental doctrine from the Bible.

Exactly what I said in post #13:

.....“Of course, we know that the law is good if a person uses it legitimately, that is, if he understands that the law is not intended for righteous people but for lawbreakers and rebels, for ungodly people and sinners, for those who are unholy and irreverent, for those who kill their fathers, their mothers, or other people, for those involved in sexual immorality, for homo*sexuals, for kidnappers, for liars, for false witnesses, and for whatever else goes against the healthy teaching that agrees with the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.” 1 Tim 1:8-11 ISV
http://isv.scripturetext.com/1_timothy/1.htm

I define heresy as any dogma that goes against the healthy teaching of the gospel, of which I consider dispensationalism to be just that. It has morphed into a myriad of some very unwholesome, destructive notions that have crossed over into the political realm and has become a potent force propelling us toward [more] war. And there's much more that could be said, but I'll leave off, for now.

Sound doctine literally translated means healthful teaching.

Example: It is unhealthy teaching for a Church to approve of homosexuality.

Would you call that 'heresy'?

 

[Yeshua1]

kyredneck,

I appreciate your very kind words, friend. As is often the case a well-meant phrase written by me is questioned by an astute reader, such as yourself, and I notice something that I should have mentioned...and this is one such case.

Do I think that believing in heresy will lead to hell? Yes. But remember, I have a very narrow definition of heresy. A heresy is a denial of a first-order issue--like the divinity of Christ or the resurrection. If one does not believe that Christ was actually raised from the dead, that person simply is not a Christian. If one does not believe Christ to be God-in-the-flesh, that person simply is not a Christian.

If I had been more careful, as I should have been, I might have phrased it this way: Heresy is something in which you persist in believing that will deposit you in the very bowels of hell.

It is important to remember, strictly speaking, we all start off as rebellious heretics. As far as believers go, some have fallen into heresy only to be rescued by concerned brothers and sister. Some have fallen into heresy and have demonstrated that they were never believers in the first place. Again, it is not how one starts the race of faith, it is how one finishes that matters.

As far as scripture is concerned, I'll offer two passages.

1. Romans 10:9
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (ESV)

This passage clearly shows that one who denies that Christ was raised from the dead cannot be a believer. To believe in some heresy that denies the actual, bodily resurrection of Christ and to persist in believing the heresy is to show yourself to be a non-believer.

It is also likely that the phrase "confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord" is intended to be understood as saying "confess with your mouth that Jesus is Yahweh." Therefore, to say that Christ was not or is not God is to deny the faith and show yourself to be a non-believer.

2. Galatians 1:6-9
[6] I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—[7] not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
[8] But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. [9] As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. (ESV)

In this passage, Paul pronounces a curse (anathema) on those preaching a false Gospel. In the context of Galatians, it is likely the "false gospel" was the "gospel" of the Judaizers which preached the "works" of the law.

When Paul says "let him be accursed" it is VERY strong language condemning those holding to and teaching the false gospel to hell...and Paul makes the statement twice.

In the Galatians passage it is clear that any perversion of Paul's Gospel--salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone--is not a mere "oops." Rather it is a matter of eternal damnation. Because to hold a gospel other than the true gospel is to believe in Heresy as defined by Scripture itself--a rejection of one or more of the non-negotiables of the Christian faith.

Blessings,

The Archangel

but aren't the doctrines that would be heretical to be held by 'christians' be those that distort/deny the CARDINAL truths of the faith?

Those that compromise the kernal/core doctrines of Christianity?

To me, one holding to calvinism or Arminianism, to Dispensationalism or Covenant theologies does NOT rise to being holding to hersies, it would be bethremn having sincere disagreements on what the bible teaches based upon how they view the proper means/way to interprete the bible!

 

[saturneptune]

Exactly what I said in post #13:



Sound doctine literally translated means healthful teaching.

Example: It is unhealthy teaching for a Church to approve of homosexuality.

Would you call that 'heresy'?

Yes, I gave an example of heresey in my post. It is not a name to be tossed around as carelessly as it is. Somone's opinion is not doctrine.

 

[saturneptune]

but aren't the doctrines that would be heretical to be held by 'christians' be those that distort/deny the CARDINAL truths of the faith?

Those that compromise the kernal/core doctrines of Christianity?

To me, one holding to calvinism or Arminianism, to Dispensationalism or Covenant theologies does NOT rise to being holding to hersies, it would be bethremn having sincere disagreements on what the bible teaches based upon how they view the proper means/way to interprete the bible!

Those areas that you mentioned Calvinism, etc, are the purest for of opinion. How many times has someone been called a heretic in a Calvinism, convenant, KJVO, and other debates?

 

[Yeshua1]

Those areas that you mentioned Calvinism, etc, are the purest for of opinion. How many times has someone been called a heretic in a Calvinism, convenant, KJVO, and other debates?

That is my point! That one can be a Christian, and belong to any of those 'teaching" and NOT be heretical!

As those teaching still agree on the core doctrines of the faith!

 

[kyredneck]

...Sound doctine literally translated means healthful teaching.

Example: It is unhealthy teaching for a Church to approve of homosexuality.

Would you call that 'heresy'?

Yes.....

And I agree with you, but, reference the passage I'm using from 1 Tim 1:

.....“Of course, we know that the law is good if a person uses it legitimately, that is, if he understands that the law is not intended for righteous people but for lawbreakers and rebels, for ungodly people and sinners, for those who are unholy and irreverent, for those who kill their fathers, their mothers, or other people, for those involved in sexual immorality, for homo*sexuals, for kidnappers, for liars, for false witnesses, and for whatever else goes against the healthy teaching that agrees with the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.” 1 Tim 1:8-11 ISV

You agree that a Church or denomination that approves of homosexuality is heretical, what about approval of any of the other vices/sins listed in the passage? "Whatever else goes against the healthy teaching that agrees with the glorious gospel" would include a myriad of potential charges of heresy, don't you think?

Example: A Church or denomination that condones cohabitation of unmarried couples and accepts them as members?

Is this heresy?

 

[OldRegular]

Heresy

The word heresy does not appear in the Old Testament and its usage in the New Testament appears to be primarily in reference to the Church. That does not mean that there were not heretics in the Old Testament! I do not define heresy per se as leading to damnation as does The Archangel in post #3, but he has a different standard for heresy.

I believe that those beliefs or practices that rise to the level of heresy must:

A. Question or impugn the nature, character, and persons of the Triune God as declared in Scripture.

B. Diminishes or adds to the Cross Work of Jesus Christ.

1. “Open theism” questions the omnscience of God contrary to Scripture therefore I consider it heretical.

2. The teaching of a parenthesis Church and the stated basis for it is questions the validity of the declaration by Jesus Christ: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. Therefore I consider this teaching to be heretical.

3. Mormonism and Jehovah’s Witness are called Christian Cults but they are both heretical. Mormonism because it is polytheistic, denies the sufficiency of the Cross Work of Jesus Christ, and impugn’s the nature and person of Jesus Christ. Jehovah’s Witness is a heretical organization because it denies the nature of the Triune Godhead and diminishes the Cross Work of Jesus Christ.

There are a number of other heresies in the Christian Faith some almost as old as Christianity itself.

4. The Word of Faith movement is a relatively new heresy, the offspring of people such as: Hagin, Kenyon, Copeland, Hinn, Crouch, Capps, Savelle, Hagin, Avanzini, Price and assorted others. Some of the most agregious teachings of these people are as follows:

From: The Kingdom of the Cults, revised by Hank Hanegraff.

1) God is a being who stands approximately six feet tall, weighs some two hundred pounds, and looks exactly like a man.

2) Faith is the literal substance that God used to create the universe, and He transported that faith with His words. Here, essentially, is what God did. God filled His words with faith. He used His words as containers to hold His faith and contain that spiritual force and transport it out there into the vast darkness by saying, ‘light, be’! That's the way God transported His faith causing creation and transformation. The way that He created the world was that, first of all, he conceived something on the inside of Him. He conceived, He had an image, He had a picture.

3) All things, including God, are subject to this ‘force of faith’ beause it works according to spiritual ‘laws’ of the universe.

4) The greatest thing God conceived of and created was an exact duplicate of himself. This duplicate god--named Adam-was God manifested in the flesh.

Snip

10) Although Jesus declared that he walked with God and that God was in Him, he never actually claimed to be God.

11) In order to redeem humanity, Jesus had to die spiritually as well as physically. When He died spiritually, he died in the same way that Adam died. In other words, He lost His divine nature and was given the nature of Satan. Jesus’ death on the cross and His shed blood did not atone for our sins. The atonement took place in hell through the devil's torturing of Jesus’ spirit for three days and three nights. Unfortunately for Satan, Jesus was taken to hell ‘illegally’ because He had never sinned. This ‘technicality’ enabled God to use His ‘force of faith’ to revive Jesus’ spirit, restore Jesus’ divine nature, and resurrect Jesus’ body. Through the resurrection process Jesus was ‘born again’.

12) When a person is born again they experience exactly what happened to Jesus. Their satanic nature is replaced by God’s divine nature. The transformation is so identical to Jesus’ transformation that Christians become little gods (small “g”) and are as much an incarnation of God as was Jesus.​

 

[saturneptune]

And I agree with you, but, reference the passage I'm using from 1 Tim 1:

.....“Of course, we know that the law is good if a person uses it legitimately, that is, if he understands that the law is not intended for righteous people but for lawbreakers and rebels, for ungodly people and sinners, for those who are unholy and irreverent, for those who kill their fathers, their mothers, or other people, for those involved in sexual immorality, for homo*sexuals, for kidnappers, for liars, for false witnesses, and for whatever else goes against the healthy teaching that agrees with the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.” 1 Tim 1:8-11 ISV

You agree that a Church or denomination that approves of homosexuality is heretical, what about approval of any of the other vices/sins listed in the passage? "Whatever else goes against the healthy teaching that agrees with the glorious gospel" would include a myriad of potential charges of heresy, don't you think?

Example: A Church or denomination that condones cohabitation of unmarried couples and accepts them as members?

Is this heresy?

Since your last example is a church (house of God) practicing sin as an official policy, yes that is heresy. Maybe we should ask, what is not heresy that Baptists seem stuck on. Drinking in moderation is not heresy (I do not drink). Buying a lottery ticket is not heresy. (Never bought one in my life). Dancing is not heresy. ( I tried it once, and am the biggest klutz on earth, never again).

You used an example of a church condoning cohabitation, allowing membership, and with that, participation in Baptism and the Lord's Supper. Let's examine a sin, rampant sin, in local Baptist churches that powers that be ignore, and give a wink and a nod to, and that is called gossip. The Scripture is full of passages about the sin of gossip. It can be in the form of slander, division, false witness, etc. Usually, it is in the form in modern day churches of jaws flapping in the far corners of a church, talking about someone's sin, their unfortunate situation, or bad circumstances. Is it to gather and pray for the person? No, 99% of the time it is for the sheer pleasure of seeing someone going through a hard time, or the thrill of spreading the news. Gossip destroys reputations and character. It is one of the most destructive sins in the Christian community, yet, we as leaders do not address it. I believe with all my heart that a local church condoning gossip is heresy. The tongue is a wicked thing. Look at Proverbs 18:8, then Romans 1:29-30, to see what the Lord thinks about a gossip, in addition to the church condoning it.

Here is an excellent summation of the gossip:
Thursday, October 27, 2011 – Guess What I Just Heard…

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The most tragic words I heard while preaching were, “I know I needed to respond to the Lord’s invitation, but I was afraid of what everyone would be talking about afterwards.” Though the weight of sin carries with it a heavy burden, often the effects (or potential effects) of gossip can cause one to fail to respond to the Lord.

All the sins of the tongue are deadly. Profanity, insults, lying, negativism, complaints, and criticism are all harmful. Gossip is a particularly deadly sin. Gossip has destroyed more people, tarnished more reputations, broken more friendships, and split more churches than any sin I'm aware of. Gossip is quickly told, quickly heard, and quickly spread. Worst of all, gossip is quickly believed.

Gossip is one of Satan's flaming arrows that he shoots at us and entices us to shoot at others. The Lord doesn't mince words in James 3:6 when he tells us about the origin of the sins of the tongue: “The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell."

Satan is behind all gossip, either directly or indirectly. When we listen to gossip, we give the devil a foothold in our lives. When we speak gossip, we're speaking as Satan wants us to speak. The fires of hell ignite gossip.

The book of Proverbs warns us of the deadly allure of gossip as well as its deadly effects over and over again. Proverbs 18:8 says, "The words of a whisperer are as dainty morsels, And they go down into the innermost parts." Whether we admit it or not, we have a fascination with gossip. That's why talk shows and grocery store tabloids are so popular.

The New Testament Greek word for "gossip" (psithuristes, Rom 1:29) is literally "a whisperer" -- a person who whispers behind your back with the intention of hurting you. A further description would be that of one who secretly, by hints and innuendoes, tarnishes the name or character of others or rouse suspicion concerning them. Such people slander other men secretly. The Bible links gossip and slander together as related sins (Rom 1:29-30). The New Testament word "slander" (katalalos) means "to speak evil of someone." When we gossip, we speak evil about people; we badmouth them. The King James Version describes people who gossip and slander people as "backbiters" (Rom 1:30). When we badmouth someone with gossip, we bite them behind their backs, whether the gossip is true or not. The vicious tale is told. The whisperer tells one vile tale after another while pretending great innocence themselves. They tell their tales as if it hurts them greatly to do so, but in reality they delight in the telling.

Gossip is always trouble. Gossip obscures the truth. Gossip drives us from God. Gossip ruins reputations. Gossip destroys relationships. Gossip divides churches. The trouble with gossip:

· It is incredibly destructive - James 3:6 and 8 says, "The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell. No man can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison."

· It spreads falsehood - Ephesians 4:25 says, "Therefore each of you must put off falsehood..." When we gossip, facts are distorted. Lies are spoken as truth. Half-truths are heralded as truth.

So what is the answer?

Don't listen to gossipers and their gossip. When someone begins to gossip to you, tell them plainly, "I don't want to hear any gossip." Don't worry about offending them by telling them you don't want to hear any gossip. Gossipers need to be put in their place.

Confront gossipers. If someone gossips about you, Jesus tells us how to confront them in Matthew 18:15-17. First, speak to the person one-on-one. If that doesn't work, bring a couple of spiritually mature Christian friends with you to confront them. We must confront people with the right facts and the right spirit. Ephesians 4:15 tells us, "Speak the truth in love."

Watch your tongue carefully. Ephesians 4:29 says, "Let no corrupt speech proceed out of your mouth, but such as is good for edifying as the need may be, that it may give grace to them that hear." Watch your tongue. If your words tear people down rather than building them up, keep quiet. As the old saying goes, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

In addition, if someone is a gossip, they cannot love their neighbor who they can see, so how can they love God who they cannot see? A gossip is as lost as a murderer, and most local Baptist churches ignore it.

 

[OldRegular]

It is hard to beat what James tells us about the tongue:

James 3:3-10
3. Behold, we put bits in the horses’ mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
4. Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
5. Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
6. And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7. For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8. But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9. Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

 

[saturneptune]

While I do not think this rises to the level of heresy, another sin local Baptist churches condone is gluttony. Not only do they condone it, they practice it with pot lucks to see which 300 pound carcas can fill their gut the quickest. Proverbs 19:24-25 speaks of people so lazy, they fail to even use a utensil to feed themselves. Not only is gluttony a sin, it promotes bad health, makes Christians appear as slobs, and certainly violates the Biblical principle that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. In some people, the Holy Spirit certainly has plenty of room to live. Even the Lord's Supper in Corinthians was abused over gluttony.

Gluttony is a sin, the most local Baptist churches ignore it. Yet, they are worried about lottery tickets, dancing, and sticking their nose in other people's business. There are many, many references to gluttony in Proverbs. While others starve everyday, we worship being pigs.

Once at a neighboring church, at a church dinner, I saw a 400 pound man stuffing his face full of food as fast as he could shovel it in. At the same time, he was talking about so and so buying lottery tickets, when that money could have been given to the church. His mouth was so full of food, one could barely understand him.

 

[saturneptune]

It is hard to beat what James tells us about the tongue:

James 3:3-10
3. Behold, we put bits in the horses’ mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
4. Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
5. Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
6. And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7. For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8. But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9. Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

Thanks for the Scripture.

 

[OldRegular]

While I do not think this rises to the level of heresy, another sin local Baptist churches condone is gluttony. Not only do they condone it, they practice it with pot lucks to see which 300 pound carcas can fill their gut the quickest. Proverbs 19:24-25 speaks of people so lazy, they fail to even use a utensil to feed themselves. Not only is gluttony a sin, it promotes bad health, makes Christians appear as slobs, and certainly violates the Biblical principle that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. In some people, the Holy Spirit certainly has plenty of room to live. Even the Lord's Supper in Corinthians was abused over gluttony.

Gluttony is a sin, the most local Baptist churches ignore it. Yet, they are worried about lottery tickets, dancing, and sticking their nose in other people's business. There are many, many references to gluttony in Proverbs. While others starve everyday, we worship being pigs.

Once at a neighboring church, at a church dinner, I saw a 400 pound man stuffing his face full of food as fast as he could shovel it in. At the same time, he was talking about so and so buying lottery tickets, when that money could have been given to the church. His mouth was so full of food, one could barely understand him.

You are on a roll tonight S/N!

People might be better off if all that food was used to help those that need it. And Baptists could use a lot of what they spend on bigger barns to help old folks who need an assisted living facility. I realize this is perhaps off topic but???????

 

[saturneptune]

You are on a roll tonight S/N!

People might be better off if all that food was used to help those that need it. And Baptists could use a lot of what they spend on bigger barns to help old folks who need an assisted living facility. I realize this is perhaps off topic but???????

No doubt they would run it better than the state government. I stepped in for the pastor a few weeks ago on Wednesday night Bible study. We were studying Acts 3 and 4, where it talks about the local church helping those in need. I posed the question, if we could stop all government assistance to those in need, would we, as local church members, be willing to take our greater take home pay and take care of these folks. I got a deafining silence.

Years ago, before government programs, family and the local churches met less fortunate and disabled folks needs. Has the government been around so long, that we have forgotten the concept?

 

[convicted1]

I'll cut to the chase right now!! Whoever's opinion is different than mine, it's heresy!! :laugh: :flower: :wavey:



ducking for cover............

 

[Michael Wrenn]

While I do not think this rises to the level of heresy, another sin local Baptist churches condone is gluttony. Not only do they condone it, they practice it with pot lucks to see which 300 pound carcas can fill their gut the quickest. Proverbs 19:24-25 speaks of people so lazy, they fail to even use a utensil to feed themselves. Not only is gluttony a sin, it promotes bad health, makes Christians appear as slobs, and certainly violates the Biblical principle that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. In some people, the Holy Spirit certainly has plenty of room to live. Even the Lord's Supper in Corinthians was abused over gluttony.

Gluttony is a sin, the most local Baptist churches ignore it. Yet, they are worried about lottery tickets, dancing, and sticking their nose in other people's business. There are many, many references to gluttony in Proverbs. While others starve everyday, we worship being pigs.

Once at a neighboring church, at a church dinner, I saw a 400 pound man stuffing his face full of food as fast as he could shovel it in. At the same time, he was talking about so and so buying lottery tickets, when that money could have been given to the church. His mouth was so full of food, one could barely understand him.

:laugh: :laugh:

This is one of the funniest, and truest, posts I've ever read.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Heresy

The word heresy does not appear in the Old Testament and its usage in the New Testament appears to be primarily in reference to the Church. That does not mean that there were not heretics in the Old Testament! I do not define heresy per se as leading to damnation as does The Archangel in post #3, but he has a different standard for heresy.

I believe that those beliefs or practices that rise to the level of heresy must:

A. Question or impugn the nature, character, and persons of the Triune God as declared in Scripture.

B. Diminishes or adds to the Cross Work of Jesus Christ.

1. “Open theism” questions the omnscience of God contrary to Scripture therefore I consider it heretical.

2. The teaching of a parenthesis Church and the stated basis for it is questions the validity of the declaration by Jesus Christ: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. Therefore I consider this teaching to be heretical.

3. Mormonism and Jehovah’s Witness are called Christian Cults but they are both heretical. Mormonism because it is polytheistic, denies the sufficiency of the Cross Work of Jesus Christ, and impugn’s the nature and person of Jesus Christ. Jehovah’s Witness is a heretical organization because it denies the nature of the Triune Godhead and diminishes the Cross Work of Jesus Christ.

There are a number of other heresies in the Christian Faith some almost as old as Christianity itself.

4. The Word of Faith movement is a relatively new heresy, the offspring of people such as: Hagin, Kenyon, Copeland, Hinn, Crouch, Capps, Savelle, Hagin, Avanzini, Price and assorted others. Some of the most agregious teachings of these people are as follows:

From: The Kingdom of the Cults, revised by Hank Hanegraff.

1) God is a being who stands approximately six feet tall, weighs some two hundred pounds, and looks exactly like a man.

2) Faith is the literal substance that God used to create the universe, and He transported that faith with His words. Here, essentially, is what God did. God filled His words with faith. He used His words as containers to hold His faith and contain that spiritual force and transport it out there into the vast darkness by saying, ‘light, be’! That's the way God transported His faith causing creation and transformation. The way that He created the world was that, first of all, he conceived something on the inside of Him. He conceived, He had an image, He had a picture.

3) All things, including God, are subject to this ‘force of faith’ beause it works according to spiritual ‘laws’ of the universe.

4) The greatest thing God conceived of and created was an exact duplicate of himself. This duplicate god--named Adam-was God manifested in the flesh.

Snip

10) Although Jesus declared that he walked with God and that God was in Him, he never actually claimed to be God.

11) In order to redeem humanity, Jesus had to die spiritually as well as physically. When He died spiritually, he died in the same way that Adam died. In other words, He lost His divine nature and was given the nature of Satan. Jesus’ death on the cross and His shed blood did not atone for our sins. The atonement took place in hell through the devil's torturing of Jesus’ spirit for three days and three nights. Unfortunately for Satan, Jesus was taken to hell ‘illegally’ because He had never sinned. This ‘technicality’ enabled God to use His ‘force of faith’ to revive Jesus’ spirit, restore Jesus’ divine nature, and resurrect Jesus’ body. Through the resurrection process Jesus was ‘born again’.

12) When a person is born again they experience exactly what happened to Jesus. Their satanic nature is replaced by God’s divine nature. The transformation is so identical to Jesus’ transformation that Christians become little gods (small “g”) and are as much an incarnation of God as was Jesus.​

The Hanegraff quotes are way beyond heresy; they are blasphemous.

 

[kyredneck]

....Is heresy merely another word for opinion?

Heresy = anyone's opinion that is different from mine. :laugh:

I'll cut to the chase right now!! Whoever's opinion is different than mine, it's heresy!! .......

I've been researching it some and I'm of the opinion that the topic of heresy is rife with opinion. 'Heresy or Apostasy' may well have been the more pertinent OP title, because, in my opinion, the distinction between the two needs to be made. According to this article, from the standpoint of Christianity, 'heresy' is the addition of foreign doctrine to the truth, while 'apostasy' is the rejection of truth once embraced. 'Teaching as their doctrines the precepts of men' (Mt 15:9) would be heresy. 'First must he suffer many things and be rejected of this generation' (Lu 17:25) would be the ultimate apostasy.

But seriously, I think Paul described heresy as any gospel that is a different gospel than he and the apostles taught.

...Because to hold a gospel other than the true gospel is to believe in Heresy as defined by Scripture itself--a rejection of one or more of the non-negotiables of the Christian faith....

And, IMO, from the standpoint of evangelicals who believe that it is the gospel that imparts life and immortality, heresy becomes any corruption of that formula or equation that causes it to lose it's 'salvific' qualities. Thus the gravity that is usually assigned to the word 'heresy'.