Heretical Teaching of Origen-like Allegory? – Parts 5-9

[Protestant]

Protestant: Futurists deny the united truthful Holy Ghost testimony of the saints and martyrs of centuries past as to the identity of Antichrist.

DHK: That is the heretical teaching of allegory introduced by the heretic Origen.

It is one thing to deny the testimony of psychics, kooks and Marian apparitions.

It is quite another to deny or ignore altogether centuries of testimony by honest, sober, serious Christians who had undergone intense interrogation by ecclesiastical authorities for the purpose of convicting the dissenters of Manichean heresy.

Conviction resulted in loss of property, personal freedom and, ultimately, one’s life.

DHK: You are confused.

DHK accuses this writer of being ‘confused.’

By so doing he accuses the ancient Albigense and Waldense Christians of being 'confused.'

In turn, he accuses all the Reformers and their Confessions, including the 1689 London Baptist Confession, of being 'confused.'

For they all profess the same prophetic truth which I profess:

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Head of the church, in whom, by the appointment of the Father, all power for the calling, institution, order or government of the church, is invested in a supreme and sovereign manner; neither can the Pope of Rome in any sense be head thereof, but is that antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the church against Christ, and all that is called God; whom the Lord shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ depicts a spiritual war between Christ’s true Church and Satan’s false Church.

This war was announced in the Garden of Eden:

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Rev. 12 predicts the fulfillment of this prophecy:

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

It is the pagan Roman seed of Satan the serpent who persecutes and kills the seed of the woman, Jesus Christ.

It is also a Roman seed of the serpent, called a 'beast,' who persecutes and kills the followers of Jesus through the centuries.

That seed is of the same royal lineage as that of pagan Roman rulers.

Both hold the office of Pontifex Maximus, 'high priest.'

There is one important distinction, however.

Though portrayed as a beast by his blasphemous words and reprehensible actions, the 'new' Pontifex Maximus will insist he is a good, moral God-fearing Christian man, an Apostle, given authority to rule the Christian Church by divine mandate.

He will deceive much of the world, including Futurists who look for another to fulfill the Antichrist prophecies.

However, Christ promises no such deception to His elect:

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The ancient Christians were not deceived.

Thanks to the numerous Roman Catholic priests who were converted to Gospel truth, the Scriptures were translated into their native tongues.

Though lacking formal theological training, the Holy Spirit quickly revealed to the nations' townspeople fulfillment of the Antichrist prophecies in the Church of Rome.

Armed with certain proof that the Roman Church was the Babylonian whore of Revelation, the ancient Christian dissenters made good use of this truth when evangelizing.

They compared the Scriptural model of true Christianity with the unscriptural Roman model.

The discrepancy was immediately noticed and conversions were so numerous that in order to combat the rising tide of opposition to their Church, the Roman authorities enacted laws against evangelizing and Bible reading.

Finding little compliance among the protesting Christians, the Catholic Church authorized their extermination by means of force via the Albigense Crusades and centuries of Papal Inquisitions.

Wherever they went, the Albigenses, with no light hand, denounced alike the unscriptural errors and the personal profligacy of the Popish Clergy: while the Roman Church itself they pertinaciously stigmatized as the blood-thirsty Harlot of the Apocalypse, or as the Synagogue of Satanic Apostasy to which the Papal Man of Sin, Antichrist ruling over Antichristianism, enacted the part of the head and ringleader.

In return, the Priesthood liberally bestowed upon them the name of Manicheans; described them as very monsters of secret wickedness; terrified the silly populace with idle tales of their worshipping Lucifer under the specious form of a male cat; and, what was a far more serious matter than those nonsensical and malignant impertinences, wherever they could catch them, burned them alive without evincing the slightest measure of compassion or compunction. (George Stanley Faber, The History of the Ancient Vallenses and Albigenses, 1838, p. 252)

NEXT: Part 6: How a prominent Inquisitor described their character and evangelizing methods.

 

[Protestant]

Heretical Teaching of Origen-like Allegory? – Part 6

Let us now examine the demeanor, character and lifestyles of the Christian dissenting ‘heretics’ as described by the infamous Dominican Inquisitor Reinerius Sacco in his A. D. 1254 Summa Against the Heretical Sects:

Heretics are distinguished by their manners and their words; for they are sedate and modest in their manners. They have no pride in clothes, for they wear such as are neither costly nor mean. They do not carry on business in order to avoid falsehoods, oaths and frauds; but only live by labor, as workmen. Their teachers are also shoemakers and weavers. They do not multiply riches, but are content with what is necessary; and they are chaste, especially the Leonists [Waldenses]. They are also temperate in meat and drink. They do not go to taverns, dances or other vanities. They restrain themselves from anger, they are always at work, learning or teaching……

They may also be known by the precision and moderation of their language. They also abstain from scurrility and detraction and levity in discourse and lying and swearing……(S. R. Maitland, Facts and Documents of the History and Doctrine and Rites of the Ancient Albigenses & Waldenses, 1832, pgs. 433-34)

Next, Reinerius describes how they manage to convert the upper class citizens with whom they would not ordinarily have private social interaction.

As a result of such conversions, the dissenting Christians formed strong alliances with their secular rulers which often gave them protection from both Church and other secular authorities.

The heretics craftily devise how they may introduce themselves to the acquaintance of the noble and the great; and they do it in the following manner:

They exhibit to gentleman and ladies some kind of tempting wares, such as rings and kerchiefs for sale. Having sold them, if he is asked, “Have you anything more to sell?”, he answers, “I have more precious gems than these. I will give them to you, if you will not betray me to the clergy.”
Having received assurance, he says, “I have a brilliant gem from God whereby man may have knowledge of God. I have another which shines so that it kindles the love of God in the heart of him who possesses it”; and so of the others.

He speaks of gems metaphorically. After that, he recites some devout chapter, as that of Luke, ‘The Angel Gabriel was sent, etc;’ or from our Lord’s discourse, John 12, ‘Now before the Feast,etc.’ When he has begun to interest his hearer, he adds Matt. 23, ‘In Moses’ seat, etc.’ and ‘Woe unto you who have taken away the key of knowledge, ye enter not in yourselves and ye forbid others to enter;’ and that of Mark 12, ‘Woe unto you who devour widows’ houses,’ and what follows.

When asked by his hearer of whom these imprecations are to be understood?, he answers, ‘The clergy and the monks.’

After this the heretic draws a comparison between the circumstances of the Romish Church and those of his sect; saying thus, “The Doctors of the Romish Church are proud in their dress and carriage, Matt. 23. They love the chief seats and seek to be called of men, Rabbi, but such Rabbis we do not desire to have.

Also, they are incontinent; but each one of us has his wife and lives chastely with her.

Also, they are rich and covetous, to whom it is said, ‘Woe unto you rich, for ye have received your consolation’; but we, having food and clothes to cover us, are content therewith.

Also, they are voluptuous, to whom it is said, ‘Woe to you who devour widows’ houses,’ we, however, live as we can.

Also, they fight and make wars and command the poor to be killed and burned, to whom it is said, ‘He that taketh the sword shall perish by the sword’; we, however, suffer persecution from them for [our] righteousness.

Also, they eat the bread of idleness, doing nothing; but we work with our hands. Also, they wish to be the only teachers, to whom it is said, Matt. 23, ‘Woe unto you who have taken away the key of knowledge’; but among us women teach as well as men; and a disciple of 7 days instructs another.

Also, there is hardly a teacher among them who knows by heart three connected chapters of the New Testament; but among us, there is scarcely a man or woman who cannot repeat the text in our common language.

And because we have the true faith of Christ and all teach a holy life and doctrine, the Scribes and the Pharisees, without cause, persecute us to death, as they did Christ. Moreover, they only say, and do not, and bind heavy burdens on men’s shoulders, but do not move them with their finger. But we practice all that we teach.

Also, they are more urgent in compelling observance of the traditions of men, than the commandments of God; such as fasts, festivals, Church attendance, and many other things which are of human institution. But we only persuade men to keep the doctrine of Christ and the Apostles.

Also, they load penitents with most grievous penances which they do not move with one of their fingers; but we, by the example of Christ, say to the sinner, ‘Go and sin no more.’ We remit his sins by the imposition of hands, transmitting souls at death to Heaven; but they send all souls to Hell.”

Having stated these and other points, the heretic says, “Consider which state and which faith is the more perfect: ours or that of the Church of Rome, and make your choice.”

And thus he is turned away from the Catholic faith, being seduced by their errors; and thus, as a believer of them, [he becomes] a receiver, a favorer and defender, hiding him [the heretic] in his house for several months to learn [the doctrines] of the sect. (S. R. Maitland, ibid; pgs. 435-37)

I ask the Reader, Do these arguments against the Church of Rome sound like the ravings of ‘confused’ persons?

I also ask the Reader, Have you ever before considered the multitudinous parallels between the Scribes, Pharisees and Sadducees with the Roman Catholic Church bishops, priests, monks and friars?

Are the parallels mere coincidences or are they prophetic fulfillment intended to reveal the mystery of iniquity?

NEXT: Part 7: More Testimony of the Ancient Christians against Antichrist.

 

[Protestant]

Heretical Teaching of Origen-like Allegory? – Part 7

Let us now examine the A. D. 1241 Summa Against the Cathars [Albigenses] written by Moneta of Cremona, a Dominican friar and University professor who was most likely an Inquisitor.

The heretic is wont to ask, ‘What constitutes the Church of God?’

[Moneta then makes several arguments that the Roman Church is the Church of God.]

“……..it is obvious that the Roman Church, which has faith and good works, two things in which the Church abides, is the Church of God.”

The heretic makes an objection, saying, “As we find in Matt. 7:17-18, a tree is known by its fruits. The fruit of the Roman Church is evil; therefore the Roman Church is evil…..”

Also, the heretic objects, saying, “Since the fruit of the Roman Church is evil, its faith is evil……”

The heretic in opposition objects: “Ten parts or more of the Roman Church are evil; therefore, it ought to be called the church of the Devil rather than of God…”

Also, “The faith of the Roman Church is dead; hence, so also is the Roman Church. For from dead faith there is no life. But if the Roman Church is dead, while the Church of God is life, it is not the Church of God….”

Also, the heretic bases an objection on a wicked prelate accusing him by quoting James 2:18 [by concluding wicked works reveal a wicked faith].

…….They also base an objection on the Lord’s words to the scribes and the Pharisees in Matt. 23:29-33…….

The heretics say that the priests of the Roman Church, whom they call modern Pharisees, fired by the same wrath, plot the same kind of murders. They say that the Pharisees among the Jews, whom they call the fathers of our priests, killed the apostles, persecuted the primitive church of the saints; [so in like manner] our priests build and adorn the sepulchers of the slain and construct altars over them. But also fired by the same wrath, they fill up the measure of the Pharisees by murders and by persecuting the church of the heretics…….

….Also the heretic says: The Church should suffer persecution in this world, not practice it on others. But the Roman Church persecutes others, while itself remaining free from persecution……

Also, the heretic objects: The Church of Christ, threatened by persecution, was often hungry and thirsty, naked and buffeted, and made weak….1 Cor. 4:11….The Roman Church is not in this condition. For the Roman Church is rich in possessions, in luxuries; it is garbed in purple and linen, and has splendid feasts every day. It is untroubled and is established in this world…..

…..Also, they say the Church of Christ was scorned and blasphemed by the world; on the other hand, the world honors the Roman Church….

Also, they say that the Church of Christ first gave instructions before it would baptize anyone, as is found in Matt. 28:19, “Going therefore, teach ye all nations, baptizing them,“ and so on. The Roman Church baptizes before it teaches, as is obvious in the case of infants. Furthermore, Christ and His disciples are never known to have baptized anyone who lacked faith and the ability to reason. But the Roman Church does so…….

Also, they say the Church of God did not kill or swear. The Roman Church does so….

…Also, they object that many there are in the Roman Church who are in want, half dead from hunger, thirst and cold, on whom the wealthy members of the Roman Church have no pity, but allow them to weep, to be afflicted by these sufferings. In what way does the love of God abide in such persons? Not at all, as also is said in 1 John 3:17. Yet if the love of God does not abide in them, how can they be the Church of God? (N.B. The Roman Catholic Church has incalculable wealth as has been well documented. Yet like the rich young ruler, she refuses to sell all she has and give it to the poor….nor will she give it to the victims of priestly sexual abuse, preferring instead to hide the wealth and declare bankruptcy.)

Also, the heretic objects that the Roman Church has multiplied and spread throughout the world, but the Church of God, on the contrary, is few in number: Matt. 7:14, ‘Strait is the way that leads to life and few there be who find it.’(Wakefield and Evans, Heresies of the High Middle Ages, 1969, pgs. 323-27)

Next, Friar Moneta details ‘How the Heretics Prove that the Roman Church is not the Church of God.’

In execration of the Roman Church also, the heretic cites the text of Apocalypse 17:3, where John says that he saw “a woman sitting upon a scarlet-colored beast, full of the names of blasphemy”, and, to sum it up briefly, the Cathars [i.e. Albigenses] and the Leonists [i.e. Waldenses] as well, believe that all or almost all of what is found in the Apocalypse, chapters 17, 18 and the first part of chapter 19 to the words of verse 3, ‘And her smoke ascended forever and ever,’ was recorded against the Roman Church. For they interpret ‘the beast’ and ‘the woman’ as references to the Roman Church.

The beast, we read, was scarlet; likewise, we find in verse 4 that the woman was clothed with ‘scarlet and purple, and gilt with gold, and precious stones and pearls, and having a golden cup in her hand. These words are applicable to the Lord Pope, who is the head of the Roman Church. The woman “drunk with the blood of the saints” (verse 6) is referred to in the same connection.

This symbol they attach to the Roman Church because it orders their death, for they believe they are the saints. [They interpret the woman to be the Roman Church because] at the end of the chapter one reads, “And the woman which thou sawest is the great city which has kingdom over the kings of the earth”……. (Ibid. p. 328)

Again, I ask the Reader, who is confused?...........the ancient Christians or DHK?

NEXT: Part 8: Excerpts from Dominican Inquisitor Bernard Gui’s The Conduct of the Inquisition of Heretical Depravity.

 

[Protestant]

Heretical Teaching of Origen-like Allegory? – Part 8

The following excerpts are taken from Dominican Inquisitor Bernard Gui’s A.D. 1323 classic, The Conduct of the inquisition of Heretical Depravity:

Chapter 1: Manicheans of the Present Time [i.e. Albigenses]

…..they pretend that there are two churches: the beneficent one, they say, is there sect, which they declare to be the Church of Jesus Christ. But the other they call the evil church. This they hold to be the Roman Church, which they shamelessly refer to as the mother of fornication, the great Babylon, the harlot and cathedral of the devil, and the synagogue of Satan.

They despise and distort all of its offices, its orders, its ordinations, and its statutes. They call all who hold its faith heretics and sinners, and they declare as dogma that no one can be saved in the faith of the Roman Church.

Also, all the sacraments of the Roman Church of our Lord Jesus Christ – the Eucharist or sacrament of the altar, baptism which makes use of actual water, confirmation, ordination, extreme unction, penance and marriage of man and woman – each and every one they declare empty and vain………

Confession of sins made to the priests of the Roman Church they hold to be utterly without value for salvation, and they say that neither the pope nor anyone else connected with the Roman Church has the power to absolve anyone from his sins………

under no circumstances do they take an oath……

Concerning their Method of Religious Instruction:

In the first place, they usually say of themselves that they are good Christians who do not swear or lie or speak evil of anyone; that they kill neither man nor beast nor anything which has the breath of life; and that they hold the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ and His Gospel, as Christ and His apostles taught it. They say that they occupy the place of the apostles and that it is because of the foregoing facts that the members of the Roman Church, to wit, the prelates, the secular and regular clergy, and especially the inquisitors of heretics, persecute them and call them heretics, just as the Pharisees persecuted Christ and His apostles, although they are really good men and good Christians.

Also, they discuss with laymen at every opportunity the wicked life of clerics and prelates of the Roman Church. They give examples and speak at length about their pride, cupidity, avarice, their unclean life, and whatever other evils they know. In this connection they cite the texts of the Gospels and the Epistles, as they interpret and understand them, against the state of the prelates, clergy, and members of religious orders, whom they refer to as Pharisees and false prophets, those who ‘say and do not.’

One by one, they tear down and disparage all the sacraments of the Church, especially the sacrament of the Eucharist, saying that the body of Christ is not therein, for were it large as the greatest mountain, Christians [Catholics] would already have eaten all of it…..also it goes into the latrine of the stomach and is ejected through the basest part of the body, which could not happen, they insist, if God were present.

….Also they say that the Cross of Christ deserves no adoration or veneration because, according to them, no one adores or venerates the gallows on which his father, relative or friend has been hanged.

Also, they say that those who adore the Cross should, with equal right, adore all thorns and all lances, for just as in Christ’s passion the Cross was for His body, so were the thorns for His head and the soldier’s lance for His side.

Many other offensive teachings do they set forth on the subject of the sacraments of the Church.

Also, they read the Gospels and the Epistles in the vernacular, interpreting and expounding them in their own favor and against the existing establishments of the Roman Church.

Concerning the Errors of the Waldenses of Recent Times:

Now, the principle heresy of the aforesaid Waldenses was and still continues to be contempt of ecclesiastical authority……The foolish followers and impious teachers of this sect hold and teach that they are not subject to our Lord Pope, the Roman Pontiff, or to other prelates of the Roman Church, for they declare that the Roman Church persecutes and censures them unjustly and unduly.

…..Also, as it strays from the way and right path, this sect does not accept or consider valid, but despises, rejects and damns the canonical decrees, the decretals of the Supreme Pontiffs, the rules concerning observance of fasts and holy days, and the precepts of the Fathers.

…Also, this sect and heresy ridicules the indulgences which are published and granted by prelates of the Church, asserting that they are of no value whatever

….also, they censure and condemn prelates and the secular and religious clergy of the Roman Church, speaking disparagingly of their office. They hold them to be the blind who lead the blind, who neither preserve Gospel truth nor practice apostolic poverty. In a bitter lie, they aver that the Roman Church is a house of falsehood…..saying they are the successors to the apostles……

….Also, they say there are no real miracles performed in the Church by the merits and prayers of the saints, for none of the saints performed miracles. Also, they say and affirm in private that the saints in heaven hearken not to the prayers of the faithful, nor do they heed the veneration whereby we on earth honor them. They say that the saints do not pray for us and so it is useless for us to seek their help. Hence they scorn the festivals which we celebrate in veneration of the saints……

Concerning the Sect of the Pseudo-Apostles:

The inconstant adherents of the apostate and heretical sect at first taught their doctrines in stealth, to whom, when and where they may --- that all the authority once conferred upon the Roman Church by our Lord Jesus Christ has become utterly void and has ceased to exist because of the wickedness of prelates; also, that the Roman Church which popes, cardinals, prelates secular and monastic clergy control, is not the Church of God but a church rejected and fruitless; also, that the Roman Church is that Babylon, the great harlot, of which John writes in the Apocalypse and which has forsaken the faith of Christ…..they say they are the Church of God…..

They declare themselves not bound to obey any man, the Supreme Pontiff, or any other, inasmuch as their rule, which they claim came directly from Christ, is one of freedom and of a most perfect life….Also, that neither the Pope nor anyone else can excommunicate them….Also, that all who persecute them commit sin and are in a state of damnation and perdition. (Wakefield and Evans, Heresies of the High Middle Ages, 1969, pgs. 379-406)

NEXT: Part 9: 12th Century Waldense Treatise on Antichrist

 

[Protestant]

Heretical Teaching of Origen-like Allegory? – Part 9

12th Century Waldense Treatise on Antichrist​

Let us continue our examination of the prophetic teachings of these ancient Pre-Reformation Christians. Below I give excerpts. The full treatise may be accessed at http://www.iconbusters.com/iconbusters/htm/false_prophets/waldensian.pdf

Antichrist is a falsehood, worthy of eternal damnation, covered with an outward appearance of the truth, and [with] the righteousness of Christ and his spouse, [yet] opposite to the way of truth, righteousness, faith, hope and charity, as likewise to the moral life; and also [opposite to] the ministerial verity of the church, [being] administered by the false apostles, and obstinately defended by both powers, ecclesiastical and secular.

Or antichrist is a delusion, which hides the truths necessary to salvation, both in things substantial and ministerial.

Or it is a fraudulent contradiction to Christ and his spouse, and every faithful member thereof. It is not any special person ordained in any degree, or office, or ministry; but it is that falsehood itself, which opposeth itself against the truth, which covereth and adorneth itself with a pretence of beauty and piety, [yet is] not suitable to the church of Christ, as [seen] by the names, and offices, and scriptures and sacraments, and divers other things, may appear. That iniquity which is [described] after this manner, with all the ministers thereof, great and small, with all those that follow them with a wicked heart, and hoodwinked eyes;

This congregation I say, thus taken all together, is called antichrist, or Babylon, or the fourth beast, or the whore, or the man of sin, or son of perdition. His ministers are called false prophets, lying teachers, the ministers of darkness, the spirit of error, the apocalyptic whore, the mother of fornication, clouds without water, trees without leaves, dead, and twice rooted up, waves of a troublesome sea, wandering stars, Balaamites and Egyptians.

He is called antichrist, because being covered and adorned under the colour of Christ, and of the Church, and the faithful members thereof, he oppugneth the salvation purchased by Christ, and truly administered in the Church of Christ, whereof the faithful are partakers by faith, hope and charity. Thus he contradicteth the truth by the wisdom of the world, by false religion, by counterfeited holiness, by ecclesiastical power, secular tyranny, riches, honours, dignities and the delights and delicacies.

And therefore let every one take notice thereof, that antichrist could not come in any wise, but [through] all these things above mentioned [which] must needs meet together, to make a complete hypocrisy and falsehood; that is to say, the worldly wise, the religious orders, pharisees, ministers, doctors, the secular power, with the people of the world joined together. And thus all of them together make up the man of sin and error complete.

tirred up to hate and to be enraged against those that love the truth, even to murder so many of them; so that according to the apostle, we may truly say, this is that man of sin complete, that lifts up himself against all that is called God, or worshipped, and that setteth himself in opposition against all truth, sitting down in the temple of God; that is his church, and showing forth himself as if he were God, being come with all manner of deceivableness for those that perish.

And since he is truly come, he must no longer be looked for, for he is grown old already by God's permission. (Jean Paul Perrin, History of the Old Albigenses Anterior to the Reformation, originally published in 1618. Book III: Precious Remains of the Doctrine and Discipline of the Old Waldenses and Albigenses, and their Noble Testimony Against the Roman Antichrist, pgs. 242- 250)

The Reader need note the admonition in the last sentence: Antichrist has come and Christians should look for no other.

In other words, Futurism is a dangerous deceit which gives comfort to the Church’s arch enemy, Antichrist, who has already been revealed to the Elect by the Spirit of God.

Futurists would have you believe the ancient Christians died for a lie because they were either:

1. and, thus, should be pitied.

2. Honestly mistaken, though quite sincere, and, thus, should be pitied.

3. Thoroughly deceived due to ignorance of Scripture and, thus, should be pitied.

4. Definitely deluded due to cunning Scripture twisting by their false teachers and, thus, should be pitied.

5. Or they were all intentionally lying --- false prophets seeking to bring vast numbers of simpletons into their congregation by whatever means necessary due to an unjust bias and prejudice against an innocent Roman Church and, thus, should be damned.

By no mere ‘coincidence’, proposition # 5 is the attitude of the Roman Catholic Church toward those who testified against them.

Of course, there is another explanation:

They were telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth as Jesus promised: Matt. 10:17-20; Mark 13:9-11; Luke 12:11-12; Luke 21:12-15.

Further Testimony of Waldensian Beliefs

The following excerpt is from the Inquisitor Reinerius in his A.D. 1254 Summa:

First, they say that the Romish Church is not the Church of Jesus Christ, but a church of malignants (i.e. having an evil nature), and that it apostatized (i.e., ‘fell away’, 2 Thess. 2:3) under (the first Pope) Sylvester, when the poison of temporalities (i.e. acquisition of properties and revenues) was infused into the church. And they say that they are the Church of Christ because they observe, both in word and deed, the doctrine of Christ, of the Gospel, and of the Apostles.

Their second error is that all vices and sins are in the (Roman) church and that they alone live righteously.

3. That scarcely anyone in the church, but themselves, preserves the evangelical doctrine.

4. That they are the true poor of spirit and suffer persecution for righteousness and faith.

5. That they are the Church of Jesus Christ.

6. That the Church of Rome is the Harlot in the Apocalypse, on account of its superfluous decoration which the Eastern Church does not regard.

7. That they despise all the statutes of the Church because they are heavy and numerous.

8. That the Pope is the head of all errors.

9. That the Prelates are (the image) of the Scribes and the Monks (are the image) of the Pharisees.

10. That the Pope and all Bishops are homicides (i.e. murderers) on account of wars.

11. That we are not to obey Prelates, but only God.

12. That no one is greater than another in the church. Matt. 23: ‘All of you are brethren.’

13. That no one ought to bow the knee before a priest. Rev. 19, where the angel says, ‘See thou do it not.’

14. That tithes are not to be given because first fruits were not given (as commandments) to the church……… (S.R. Maitland, Facts and Documents, etc., 1832, pgs. 407-09)

Conclusion

To dismiss the centuries of truthful, Scripture-breathed testimony of God’s persecuted people as irrelevant, inconsequential or inadequate to identifying the Harlot and beastly Antichrist is tantamount to willfully closing one’s eyes and ears to what was obvious to generations of Christians, including the Pre-Reformers, Reformers and Puritans.

Although open persecution by the Roman Church in democratic nations is nigh impossible in our generation, her influence is still unparalleled.

What other world religion boasts the honor, prestige and respect as that of the Church of Rome?

What other religious leader boasts the honor, prestige and respect as that of the Papal Antichrist?

Presidents and Kings grovel at the feet of the reigning Papal Antichrist, exchanging gifts in a spirit of friendship and harmony.

Charismatic and conservative Evangelical leaders grovel at the feet of the reigning Pope.

The Press grovels at the feet of the reigning Papal Antichrist. His every word and movement is a major news event.

And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

Do you, Christian reader, still wonder after the identity of the Whore and Beast……as do the Futurists?

 

[DHK]

And since he is truly come, he must no longer be looked for, for he is grown old already by God's permission. (Jean Paul Perrin, History of the Old Albigenses Anterior to the Reformation, originally published in 1618. Book III: Precious Remains of the Doctrine and Discipline of the Old Waldenses and Albigenses, and their Noble Testimony Against the Roman Antichrist, pgs. 242- 250)

The Reader need note the admonition in the last sentence: Antichrist has come and Christians should look for no other.

In other words, Futurism is a dangerous deceit which gives comfort to the Church’s arch enemy, Antichrist, who has already been revealed to the Elect by the Spirit of God.

Futurists would have you believe the ancient Christians died for a lie because they were either:

1. and, thus, should be pitied.

I believe you are the one confused and possibly should be pitied.
Look at the facts:
1. The Antichrist is a person, also called "the man of sin." He will live an average life span of any other man on this earth, and no longer. He is human, a man. He is a person whom Satan will enter.
He is also described as one riding on a horse. Perhaps the horse may not be literal but the person is.
He is a person that will make a covenant with Israel. He will break that covenant. He is a man. The antichrist is an actual person. The Bible describes this man over and over again with human attributes.

2. If you agree with the Albigenses and Waldenses that he came before 1618 (the publishing date of that book), then the Antichrist is dead, the false prophet is dead, The Tribulation is over, The Millennial Kingdom is over, and God has created a new earth and a new heaven.
Where are you living? I don't know, but this is not a new earth!!
This is the same sinful earth that history has known in the 1500's and 1600's. The curse has not been removed and man is just as rebellious against Christ now as he was then, if not more so. There is no man, no antichrist today that has lived from 1600 to 2014. Someone here is very confused, deluded and ought to be pitied, and it isn't me.

3. There is only one Antichrist. If he was alive then, we should be living in the new earth and the new Jerusalem, but we aren't. Therefore the Waldenses, etc. were wrong.

4. If the Antichrist is alive today, and had manifested himself we would be in the midst of the Tribulation facing the wrath of God. But thankfully we aren't.
Someone is wrong. It is not me. Look around and be thankful that you are not going through the Tribulation, the wrath of God (not man), as described in the Book of Revelation.

 

[Yeshua1]

I believe you are the one confused and possibly should be pitied.
Look at the facts:
1. The Antichrist is a person, also called "the man of sin." He will live an average life span of any other man on this earth, and no longer. He is human, a man. He is a person whom Satan will enter.
He is also described as one riding on a horse. Perhaps the horse may not be literal but the person is.
He is a person that will make a covenant with Israel. He will break that covenant. He is a man. The antichrist is an actual person. The Bible describes this man over and over again with human attributes.

2. If you agree with the Albigenses and Waldenses that he came before 1618 (the publishing date of that book), then the Antichrist is dead, the false prophet is dead, The Tribulation is over, The Millennial Kingdom is over, and God has created a new earth and a new heaven.
Where are you living? I don't know, but this is not a new earth!!
This is the same sinful earth that history has known in the 1500's and 1600's. The curse has not been removed and man is just as rebellious against Christ now as he was then, if not more so. There is no man, no antichrist today that has lived from 1600 to 2014. Someone here is very confused, deluded and ought to be pitied, and it isn't me.

3. There is only one Antichrist. If he was alive then, we should be living in the new earth and the new Jerusalem, but we aren't. Therefore the Waldenses, etc. were wrong.

4. If the Antichrist is alive today, and had manifested himself we would be in the midst of the Tribulation facing the wrath of God. But thankfully we aren't.
Someone is wrong. It is not me. Look around and be thankful that you are not going through the Tribulation, the wrath of God (not man), as described in the Book of Revelation.

Does he hold that the catholic Church/papacy itself has been the Antichrist all this time?
How can a church be the man of Sin, of perdition the Bible warns us against?

When jesus returns, will he slay a man called Antichrist, or a church/system?

if so, then how c

 

[Protestant]

Rightly Dividing the Word - Part 1

I believe you are the one confused and possibly should be pitied.
......There is no man, no antichrist today that has lived from 1600 to 2014. Someone here is very confused, deluded and ought to be pitied, and it isn't me......There is only one Antichrist.

DHK: The Antichrist is a man, a man that will be possessed by Satan. Realize however that Revelation 13 speaks of two different beasts that must not be confused with each other: the first beast is the Antichrist, and the second is the False Prophet, a religious figure that helps the Antichrist.

Revelation 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

--Note the beast (the Antichrist) with the political alliances mentioned--seven heads and ten horns.

Your exposition of one single Antichrist at the end of the world follows that of the originators of Futurism -- the Jesuits. They were the instigators of the Counter-Reformation, the enemies of Christ and His Church, who would have the ignorant public believe the Papacy is not the Antichrist depicted in numerous Scriptures.

I cite the Jesuit Apologist, Cardinal Bellarmine, in his ‘celebrated’ Disputationes de controversiis christian fidei:

For all Catholics actually perceive Antichrist to be one certain man but all the previously referenced heretics [Protestant Reformers] in a manner peculiar to them improperly teach Antichrist not to be a single person but rather they teach the Antichrist to be a single throne or tyrannical kingdom or the apostolic chair of those who preside over the catholic church. (Source: http://antichristmaitreya.wordpress.com/2011/11/24/st-robert-bellarmine-on-antichrist)

Corroboration may be found here:

The third section discusses Antichrist; Bellarmine gives in full the theory set forth by the Greek and Latin Fathers, of a personal Antichrist to come just before the end of the world and to be accepted by the Jews and enthroned in the temple at Jerusalem, thus endeavoring to dispose of the Protestant exposition which saw Antichrist in the pope. (Source: http://www.ccel.org/s/schaff/encyc/encyc02/htm/iv.iv.lxxxvi.htm)

Here is a third unbiased source which admits Bellarmine was a major influence, along with the Jesuit Francisco Ribera, in the promulgation of Futurism:

Bellarmine was a resolute opponent toward Protestantism and quickly became the leading apologist of the Catholic Church during the Counter-Reformation. As a shrewd controversialist on the side of Rome, he refined the futurist interpretation of Jesuit Francisco Ribera of Salamanca, Spain against the dominant historical interpretation of the Protestant Reformers. (Source: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9780470670606.wbecc0140/abstract )

I think it important all our readers understand the origin of the Futurism you blindly embrace.

Your prophetic doctrine would be most welcome in any pedophile Roman Catholic church or monastery.

I’ve no doubt the Holy Pontiff would allow you to greet him with a holy kiss upon his holy ring should your request for an audience with the Antichrist be granted.

You rightly understand the Antichrist is a man, the man of sin, aka the beast from the sea (Rev. 13) and the scarlet beast of Rev. 17.

You wrongly understand the prophetic teaching of Daniel which sets you off on a wild Jesuitical goose chase.

But first things first. My aim is to make this simple, not for you, whose mind is already shut, but for the truth-seeking reader whose mind is still open.

 

[Protestant]

Rightly Dividing the Word, Part 2

1. The woman is a false Christian church, Satan’s deception. She is contrasted with the true church, the bride of Jesus Christ.

The false church is an idolatrous whore wearing purple and scarlet, dripping in worldly riches.

The true church is a virgin, not of the world, wearing only white, the righteousness of Christ.

2. The false church is the murderer.

The true church is the one she murders.

3. The false church is a city: Rome, that great city who reigns over the kings of the earth.

The true church is also a city: New Jerusalem, the holy city who descends from Heaven.

4. The false church contains a mystery: the mystery of iniquity.

The true church is also contains a mystery: the mystery of godliness.

5. The woman, the false church, sits on the scarlet beast with 7 heads and ten horns.

The 7 heads are seven mountains: Rome.

Therefore, her seat/throne/headquarters is located in Rome.

Therefore she is a hierarchical Roman Church.

6. The scarlet beast is also Roman since his seven heads signify the city of Rome.

7. Furthermore, the scarlet beast is the 4th beast of Daniel 7: the Roman Empire.

“The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.”

8. Moreover, the scarlet beast is also the 8th head that is now the new seventh head who is the Antichrist, the son of perdition who goes into perdition (Rev. 17:11)

9. The seven heads are seven kings. (Rev. 17:10)

10. The head represents a ruling form of government, not a single person.

This is proven in Daniel 2 where the head of the image signifies the Babylonian Kings: “Thou art this head of gold. And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee…”

The Persian kingdom did not rise immediately after the reign of Nebuchadnezzar.

A dynasty of four kings followed him:

Nabu-kudurri-usur (Nebuchadnezzar II)
604 – 562 BC Chaldean king. Defeated the Egyptians and Assyrians at Carchemish. Is associated with Daniel in the Bible.

Amel-Marduk 562 – 560 BC

Nergal-shar-usur (Nergal-sharezer/Neriglissar) 560 – 556 BC

Labashi-Marduk 556 BC

Nabu-na'id (Nabonidus) 556 – 539 BC Last Mesopotamian king of Babylon, originated in Harran in Assyria. Was not a Chaldean, often left rule to his son Belshazzar.

Cyrus II of Persia 539 – 529 BC

(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_kings_of_Babylon )

11. The Roman scarlet beast has 7 heads – 7 forms of government – 5 are fallen and are past. One is now in existence in John’s day: The dynasty of Pagan Emperors.

12. The seventh head is yet to come from John’s perspective and will continue as a ruling authority for a short time period: Constantine the Great, the first ‘Christian’ Roman Emperor.

13. When ‘Christian’ Constantine moved his throne to ‘New Rome’ in Byzantium, the ‘Christian’ bishop of Rome was now in a position to usurp the role of Emperor of the West. The Papacy succeeded to gain power and prestige through the fictitious ‘Donation of Constantine,’ as well as the fall of the Western Roman Empire in A.D. 476.

14. The scarlet beast is the 8th head, the dynasty of Popes, who have supplanted the 7th head (‘Christian’ Emperors) as ‘Christian’ rulers and high priests of the revived Roman Empire, under the guise of Christianity.

15. Thus far the dynasty of Popes numbers 264-267, depending on who is doing the counting.

16. Therefore, the Man of Sin, the Antichrist, is not one single person at the end of the world, but a succession of men who hold the office of the Papacy one man at a time.

 

[DHK]

You are entitled to your opinion, but that is all it is--opinion and nothing else. There is no sound exegesis of scripture, nor exposition of scripture.

The man of sin is what it says it is: a man. It is not a succession of men, but a man. Take it for what it says.
The woman is a person. Contrast it with Revelation 13. It is the second beast that rises out of the sea, otherwise known as the False Prophet. He will be a person, a religious leader; not an institution, but a leader of an institution, one who himself will be able to do miracles and deceive people.
The beast that she rides is the antichrist, and the horns that protrude are political alliances. Again contrast with Revelation 13. He is a man, a political figure that will bring all nations together and rule over them. He is also seen in Revelation 6 as the one riding a white horse having a bow but no arrows. He will offer peace: a promise of peace, but peace that he will not keep. He will break his covenant. He is a person, not a line, or a succession, or an institution.
He is still to come.