Hey men, lookie here!

IMO, yes. Though Jesus was the head of the church, he chose submission (eg, the washing of his desciples feet), to demonstrate what a true head is. Likewise, he gave authoritative power to his disciples, exemplifying true submission.

 

IMO, yes. Though Jesus was the head of the church, he chose submission (eg, the washing of his desciples feet), to demonstrate what a true head is.

i see that as more an act of love than of submission - after all it jesus's idea, and an idea the disciples didn't really like and which they had to submit to ultimately.

Likewise, he gave authoritative power to his disciples, exemplifying true submission.

can you give any examples of god/jesus submitting to the will of the disciples? any examples of "lord, not thy will, but my will, be done?"

 

Marital submission is not the same as "submitting to the will of" another. As far as the washing of feet being more an act of love than submission, you hit the nail on the head. wives are told to submit to their husbands, and husbands are told to love their wives. Yet you can not have love without submission, and you cannot have submission without love.

Jesus' crucifixion is the ultimate act of submission, as well as the ultimate act of love.

 

Jesus' crucifixion is the ultimate act of submission, as well as the ultimate act of love.

submission to god, but love towards us.

Marital submission is not the same as "submitting to the will of" another.

i think it is. i guess we're probably reached the point of agreeing to disagree even so:

Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.

i don't see how paul could have possibly said what i think he's saying any clearer. as a church, we obey christ in everything, even when we don't agree. we submit to christ's will and obey him.

please have the final word, if you so desire

[ March 07, 2003, 06:28 PM: Message edited by: am ha'aretz ]

 

But if we women are to submit to our husbands and they to God, does that mean they are taking precedence over Christ, and we are to obey and serve them, and the men obey and serve Christ? Or do we just give them equal obedience as we give it to Christ?

christ comes first, imo. so, for example, women should refuse to do anything that is clearly sinful according to the word of god. in questionable matters i think wives should follow their husbands.

 

Do you think submission applies only to a husband/wife, or should women in general have a submissive attitude towards Christian men, especially single women?

i think women (like men) should submit to pastoral authority, and i think daughters living at home should submit to their fathers (and mothers). in addition, women shouldn't teach or have authority over men in the church.

but i'm not aware of any scripture teaching the submission of women to men generally.

[ March 08, 2003, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: timothy - am ha'aretz ]

 

Gina, here it goes...
I love my wife VERY much and she knows this,not only by what I say but how I treat her.
Submission.... We are very close and can talk about anything, if a major decision comes up we discuss it( she see's things that I do not and I her) After this discussion, I make the decision.
And she goes with my decision, period.
BECAUSE.. I do not make decisions for my family with my WANTS taken into consideration, their wants,needs and desires come before mine, she knows this and if I make a decision that runs contrary to what she wants, she follows my lead.
I had made a decision on keeping cable tv in our home, she did submit to my decision and had it disconnected. Now she knows that I love Andy and the sci fi channel, but I felt even the "good" shows were hindering our walk and damaging our 6 yr. old, she knew I did what I thought BEST for our home, I DID NOT DO WHAT I WANTED TO, I DID WHAT I HAD TO, and now 2 years later we would not have it back for free.
I believe many women will not submit to there husbands because they do not trust them to be un selfish. Hope this helped...
Oh,yeah Today is our 11th anniversary

 

Submission involves a covanental relationship. The soceital place of women and men is cultural, not covanental. Therefore, there is no biblical reason to forbid women to be in places leadership that haev "traditionally" been male. For example: manager, president, ceo, law enforcement officer, etc etc etc.

As far as dating, a dating relationship is not a covanent. Two people living together is not a covanent. A dating woman is not required, nor should she, submit to a man. A single woman is no more required to submit to a man than she is required to have sex with him. And as far as pastoral, that is not a covanent either. A woman should no more or less submit to pastoral authority than a man should.

 

I know I'm not a man, but I would like to say something about this topic. And since I'm not submissive to you, I'm gonna (that was a joke in case you couldn't tell)

Me: Honey, I want to buy a new sewing machine this weekend.

My husband: Aw, can you wait? The house payment is due this paycheck.

Me: Okay dear.

I think that submission means not always getting what you want when you want it, and not making a big deal about it. By the way, my husband put a new sewing machine on lay-a-way for me yesterday. If I had made a big stink over it, he probably wouldn't have wanted to reward that. But because I was submissive to his decision, God sent down a blessing. (is that silly?)

I don't agree that women should be submissive to any man other than their husbands. Pastors are supposed to go through the husband, not the wife anyway. And as for single woman, be submissive to God, and head your Pastor's decernment. But should a single woman be submissive to men in her church? Other than how I described, I think this could put the woman in a dangerous position.

God Bless you,
Charlotte

by the way...I thought the thread was "Hey, men, lookie here!" meaning there would be some men that I could lookie at...

 

ok my take....
it starts with the man.
I have been taught that I must submit to God first. Then I must serve my wife. And in turn I will serve my children. In serving, I will lead with their best interest in mind. As by His example Christ submitted to the Father by serving us That is my responsibility to my wife. It will be her pleasure to submit, because, if I am right with Him, she will trust that I am acting for her best interests. Obviously, the greater responsibility lies with the man, because if His relationship is not aligned with God, then the woman will not be able to trust him enough to submit like she is instructed to do.

 

Can I rephrase the question?

What is God's definition of a submissive wife? </font>[/QUOTE]Thank you for the restating/rephrasing of the question. Gina's way of asking seemed more to be one of stirring up trouble than that of asking what a Biblical Christian wife should be...No offense intended Gina...I haven't had my second cup of coffee yet...LOL

AJL

 

Hi Gina. Too many people confuse submission with control.

Being under one's husband is not biblical submission.
Catering to one's husband's demands and every whim is not biblical submission.
Allowing the husband to have the final say in all decisions is not submission.
Allowing a husband to act in an unbiblical manner (adultery, abuse, etc), is not biblical submission.

My definition of a submissive wife is one who will allow me to be of biblical service to her.

 

sub·mit

1. To yield or surrender (oneself) to the will or authority of another.


Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

 

Ah, but the American Heritage Dictionary is lousy at defining Greek. The greek word infers "working with", not "working under". But that's been discussed at length in other threads, so I won't rehash it here.

 

every translation i've checked has either "submit" or "subject", even the paraphrases. that's alot to account for if "work with" is truly the better translation.

[ March 12, 2003, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: timothy 1969 ]

 

just wanted to add this from titus:

4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

 

The only opinion on this subject that I am interested in is my husband's.

Cindy