Hidden Manna

Me2:

How can you even imply that this is wrong?

Yes, I too disagree with what you're describing: Legalism ("Even to the point of expressing what we should be believing"). But look at your own words:

Make the full distinction, Me2. If God controls every creature, then even that legalistic person you're implying is wrong...is right, because God gave him those thoughts, and gave him that compulsion to tell people what to believe.

By your thought train, Me2, God killed all the Jews in WWII. Hitler's off the hook, and doesn't have to take responsibility for anything he did.

By your thought train, Me2, God is dictating the very next move I make. So if I decide to insult you, or be hateful towards you, then you have absolutely no right to say anything to me about it--because God did it, not me.

This is a very Calvinistic-type (although not completely Calvinistic) of theology you're espousing, Me2. Should we discuss it point-by-point, instead of by generic overview?

 

Hello Don,

Who Is God? The Creator Of Everything...God Bad And Ugly..Everything..Every Possible Hope,Dream,Desire,Intent and Thought...Nothing That Has Been Thought..God Invented It First and Gave His Creation The Ability To Reach Such Goals..Good Bad and Ugly..

If You Can Conceive Perfection..Thats Everything..Absolutely

Your Catching On To What Im Saying...Ive Mixed Up Truth and Error Flip Flopping with Religious Ideas That Makes No Sense when Said At One Moment....

When Legalist Speak..They Overlook Mercy and Confuse Themselves with Their Own Words..The Scriptures That They Are Convince Save... Destroy Themselves....

Original Sin Ended On The Cross..No Age Of Accountability
Satan Was Created Evil..God Controls Him
Jesus Died And His Blood Was Shed For Everyone (and Everything)..Not A Select Few Who Joins The Jewish Religion. (and learned how to speak hebrew)
No Hell,.... No Burning Ring of Fire..No Eternal Punishment..Just Why Was Jesus Ticked?
Free Will of Man Doesnt Allow Him To Remove Himself From Gods Plans Of Being Loved Eternally.

Gods Word IS FOR WHOM GOD Chooses To Understand..Are They For Everyone...Eventually.
But For The Time Being..Carnal Christians will Continually be Struggling with Legalism Versus Concepts of Gods Grace. (which They Dont Accept or Comprehend).

Is This Gods Sovereignty? Is He Holding Them Back From Recognizing His Love..
What Does He Say The Key Is..Repent..Give Up ALL Control, Rely On God Completely, Recognize Gods Total Soverignty...HMMM..Could This Be JESUS IS LORD.. Really.
This Is A Heart Thing. A Faith Thing. NOT A Mental Thing!

The Bible References Disobedient Children..Children That Have To Move On From One Stage To Another..Selfish..Loving The Flesh too Much..Holding Onto The Worlds Ideologies and methods Too Strongly..Are We Talking The World or Life Within Religion?

Of Course We Can Say That Different Levels Of This Faith Exists..Baby,Child,Young Men, and Fathers..Each Having Different and Noticeable Characteristics..Different Degrees Of Perception (concerning Truths Accepted) and Levels Of Faith, and Knowledge of Who Their God Really Is, and Assurance Of Themselves..


Having The Son or Father..Referencing to A Personal Relationship With Either or Both.
Knowing God...God Is Justice AND Mercy.. (abba...Daddy)(The Son...My Bro)

Difference Between Disobedient and Obedient Child Is The Recognition of The Character Of The Father..God Is Love....Not Only For You But For Everyone..Accept It.
The Concept of Belief in Total Soverignty and Control Of God The Creator has To Be Faced between Child And Father Stages..other Than That People Do Not Advance In Their Growth..

Where Does All These Errors Occur In Communication over Doctrine....MisInterpretation
by Carnal Christians..Disobedient Children..Sticking Their Noses Where It Doesnt Belong...

The Bible Says That We Are Drawn By The Father First, Then HE (The Father) Introduces Us To The Son (Jesus) and Jesus Introduces Us Back To The Father (ABBA)

We Know This Is A Process and It Takes Time..Things Change..Added And Subtracted..
Religion Is Designed For Sheep..Its A Jail....Re-legion...Jesus Broke Up A Structured Religion To Introduce Us To A Concept of Individual Relationships..Individual Responsibility..Individual Characters..

Don, Back To Your Questions....The Wrong Statement Was Said From The Religious Bodies Point Of View..The Disdain For Going Outside Religion To Find God.....
I Am A Person Who Believes In A Strong Individual Stand..My Life Is Mine..My Wife Is My Responsibility (Although Limited) My Children Are My Responsibility..No One Has That Right or Responsibility To Teach or Train Them without My Approval or Right of Way..Nothing Goes Into Their Minds without My Approval. My World Is Just That.. Mine..If You Bring It Into My Home Or World..You Will Know What I Think Of It..Other Than That, Im An Easy Kind Of Guy..
Just Dont Mess With My Responsibilities...As For Me And My House, We Shall serve The Lord...

Religion Is Screwed Up..Everybodies Got A Piece..Then They Shove All The Rest Down Your Throat, Along With All Their Error, When Your not Looking...Just Give Me The Truth Straight Up.

A Lot Of People Get Killed Every Day...Hmmm Lets See..It Aint My Plan..I Didnt Think It Up...
Bullets and Bombs Dont Have Names Printed On Them..or Drunken Drivers in Cars..
You Start To Use Your Brain A Lot More and Thank God For Being In The Right Place At The Right Time. Isnt That What Proverbs (and Experience) Teaches You..Stay Away From All That Trouble. And Learn How To Live A Long, Healthy Life.

I Dont Have Any Trouble In Recognizing The Players In Gods Chess Game of Life. I Dont Have Any Trouble For Seeing What Each Player Is Capable Of Doing..I Think It Comes Down To Minding My Own Business..and Being Responsible For Myself and My World..I Do What I Do Because God Says Thats OK..Like Ive Said Before..Red Light..Stop.

And Do You Really Hate? No You Dont..Yea, You Do..Oops Changed My Mind..OK I Like You Now..Im ...

Think About This Are You Willing To Die For That Decision? I Mean Be A Hero..
A Fighting Gladiator....Life Become Simple When You Make It Simple

I Havent a Problem With Dealing With Only One Thing At A Time..Like Ive Said Before..Im Learnig How To Say These Things..verbally (mostly without having to recite scripture)

If I Made A Mistake...Im Sorry..
If Its Something That You Cant Get Over..Satan Did It....It Wasnt Me

Me2

 

Hi GH,
Come On Girly..
Double Portion Gathered on The 6th Day..Rest On The 7th
Exo 16:22 And It Came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread,
two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses..

Exo 16:30 So The People rested On The Seventh Day.

Exo 16:35 And The Children of Isreal did Eat Manna Forty Years until they Came to A Land inhabited: They Did Eat Manna Until They Came Unto The Borders Of The Land of Canaan.

6 is the Number of Man, Imperfect, Incomplete..7 is the Number of Complete, and Jesus.
Rest On The Lords Day 7=Jesus

40 is The Number Of Testing...Land Of Canaan Represented Rest (Born Again..In The Spirit)
Comprehending The Grace Of God..That God Is Love
And That He Is In Total Control..Total Absolute Sovereignty

Resting In The Love Of God...Good Choice


Me2

 

I just love em' numbers in Jesus Christ There is definately a spiritual significance in them concerning the finished work of Christ on the cross. I appreciate your simplicity in showing them.

Laughing with Di here, sometimes that "huh"? comes in until its explained in a more simplified manner. In Christ they find their meaning somehow don't they? I'm blessed by the numbers as they relate to the spiritual significance for which they stand in light of Jesus Christ.

In the end all things are summed up in Him, can't wait to find everything there

In Him Kim

 

Ah but...actually that was the Sabbath; that was up until the Resurrection was proclaimed...

Jesus rose on the eighth day which is really the first day - and in Acts the believers began to celebrate "the Lord's Day" on that day - the eighth, which is the first again - a New Beginning for all who receive the forgiveness of the sins through Jesus' death and new life through his resurrection...

love
Helen-AITB

 

AITB,

Rom 8:35 Who Shall Seperate us From the Love of Christ? Shall Tribulation, or Distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As It Is Written, "For Your Sake we are killed all the day long. We Are Counted as Sheep of Slaughter."
Rom 8:37 But In All these things we more than conquer through Him Who Loved Us.
Rom 8:38 For I Am Persuaded that Neither Death, Nor Life, Nor Angels, Nor Principalities, Nor Powers, Nor Things Present, Nor Things to Come,
Rom 8:39 Nor Height, Nor Depth, Nor any other Creature, shall be able to Seperate Us from the Love of God which is in Christ Jesus Our Lord.

I Couldnt resist..After Learnig That The Day Of The Lord Is Eternal.. I Stop Looking At A Calendar.

Rom 14:5 One Man Esteemeth One Day Above Another. Another Esteemeth Every Day Alike. Let Every Man Be Fully Persuaded in His Own Mind.

(hehe...Me2)

 

First and the last its all Him

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

What a wonderful thing to ponder!

Wow He is also of the eighth I've got to study my days to find Him there

In Him Kim

 

Hi Don,
Boy I Had To Read Your Post For A While...

Heres The Question....Before You Became A Child Of God...By Your Basis of Reasoning....
You Deserved Gods Wrath....Death..Seperation From God..For Eternity...

:Senerio:
A Perfect God Dies For All Of His Creation..
(Interestingly, He Could Have Been The Last Person on the Planet and still the Same Effect would have Applied)
..His Blood Is Used To Cover All Sins, All Curse. Past, Present , and Future....
GOD In His Own Perogatives, Tells Whom He Desires For Purposes only He Understands...

All Peoples Blood Has Been Covered..God Is Not A Respector Of Persons...
*** ALL Means ALL ***
All Sins Have Been Paid For...Past, Present, and Future...All..Perfect..Complete..
Only The Announcement of This Action Is Left to Be Done.

Well He Told You... I Guess You Got Lucky...

Now We Get To The Question: How Many Sins Deserves Seperation From God ?..
Is There Any Sin That Jesus Did Not Cover ?

Do You Think That God Still Has The Ability To Tell Others ? In Death ?
If God Is Not A Respector of Persons...Does Hitler Deserve Less Than You?

Armies Of The World Is Not A Good Thing..
If The Are Shooting At You, I Suggest Running !
Do I Understand Why It Occurs..Or Happens To Continue To Occur? No.
All Christians Can Say..God Created It....Satan Did It (or Can They?)

Me2

 

This is where your statements fail.

Because God makes a serious distinction between covering those that accept Him, and offering that covering to those who don't.

Those that don't accept the cover don't get the cover.

All sins have been paid for...at least, for those that accept the payment.

Such as receiving a movie ticket. It's been paid for, and it's all yours; all you have to do is take it and use it.

Yet most people refuse, somehow thinking they can get the ticket on their own. Unfortunately, there are no more tickets to be had.

This is where the ultimate conclusion of your argument fails: Not everyone is gonna get in to see the movie.

 

Hi Don,
I Gotta Go Here if You Can Answer It..
Tickets Are All Sold..Those That Were Specifically Asked For..

Everybody Got Asked...no One Left that Didnt Get Asked........
Your Saying That The Gospel As You Understand It is Acknowledgement Of Jesus Christ..
By The Recipient To Get Sins Forgiven...
Are you Overlooking Children....?..Or Mentally Challenged.?

Are We Saying That People That Diagree With God About Spending Eternity With Him Instead Of Damnation and Pain Actually Comprehend What They Are Actually Facing ?

And God Agree With Their Conclusion...Forever?

What Name Did They Call Upon Before The Flood ? Since God Didnt Express One...

So We Have To Say That God Chose Specific People and Left Everyone Else To Save Themselves... You Know A Concept Of Eternal Punishment Is Hard To Accept ! Compared To An Eternity Of Eternal Bliss And Comfort..

Just Wanna Clear These Things Up...You Have A Question Or Should I Ask Another..

Me2

 

"Are you Overlooking Children....?..Or Mentally Challenged.?"

Nope. Challenge for you: Find a biblical passage that says God realizes young ones are not fully rational, comprehending Him. If you can't find one, I'll provide it.

"Are We Saying That People That Diagree With God About Spending Eternity With Him Instead Of Damnation and Pain Actually Comprehend What They Are Actually Facing ?"

Yep. They just refuse to acknowledge it.

"And God Agree With Their Conclusion...Forever?"

Yep. Challenge for you: Find and read the parable of the virgins and the lamps.

"What Name Did They Call Upon Before The Flood ? Since God Didnt Express One..."

Elohiym. Genesis 3:3. I'm somewhat sure Adam and Eve passed this along to their children, seeing as Cain had a discussion with Him and seemed to know exactly who He was....

"You Know A Concept Of Eternal Punishment Is Hard To Accept ! Compared To An Eternity Of Eternal Bliss And Comfort.."

Ah, but the concept of eternal bliss without the alternative of eternal punishment is unbalanced....

Consider carefully: If God accepts everyone, no matter what path or their acceptance of Him, then what was the point of sacrificing Himself on the cross?

"So We Have To Say That God Chose Specific People and Left Everyone Else To Save Themselves..."

God chose? Or God knows?

There's a difference....

[ July 15, 2002, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: Don ]

 

Hi Don,

First Off…The Sin Of Adam Was To Put All Mankind Under The Curse..ALL..Leaving Mankind At The Mercy Of God..All Under Sin..Not One Righteous.
This Is Nothing Mental or Concious. Adam Represented All When He Disobeyed…All Curse..If You Were Born Of Blood, Well The Curse Passed On To You..Hence Virgen Birth was only logical solution…Someone outside creation…..Lets Put All The Facts On The Table…..

The Law Was Not Meant To Save Anything..Allthough Some Thought It Was Meant To Save…It Wasn't…It Was A List Of Rules To Live By..Remember The Blood Curse….

This Was A Setup…By God…..Adam Made The Wrong Choice…God Knew He Would !….
God Was Responsible !…God Is Responsible !..The Lamb Slain BEFORE The Foundation Of The World…..
God Promised Redemption Before Adam Sinned….For Who…For His Creation…He's Responsible..
Or So I Believe…..

*** Could You Supply The Child Reference....I Havent A Clue…Thanks

Eternal Punishment Was Mentioned By Jesus In A Parable…Hmmm.Arent Parables Non Literal and Spirit Interpreted..And In Revelation (which Is A Book Describing A Vision…Also Not Literal)…Well Take It For What Its Worth…"Hell" is "Thrown" into The "Lake of Fire"…Does This Mean Its "Temporary"

And We All Know About The Various OT Descriptions of Hell..Even Some when The person was Still Alive!

The Parable of Lazarus & The Rich Man only Describes Flames!……. Again No literal translation

Again I Don't Believe In An Eternal Punishment or A Literal Hell…Agree to Disagree…

**Name Of God in Genesis..Well They Had To Be Saved By Faith….The Story HAD TO BE TOLD..A Name Had To be Used…Lamb of God ?…..You Got Me….Your Answer will Have To Do For Now..
We Could Be Talking Billions of People..you would have thought there would have been a larger Buzz About Salvation….and we know later that Moses was still Looking For A Name…..

Now I Know That Theres A Big Belief Of A Battle between the Church and The World…First of all, the world don't know Squat about Jesus and Salvation..At Least Enough to Make a Choice About ETERNAL PUNISHMENT (IMHO?)..My Take on The Majority of The Bible Is That It Is Spiritually Interpreted and Requires God To Interpret It. It Aint About The World Outside Christian Religion. All Battles And InDifferences (In The NT) Are About Internal Problems Within The Church…God Introduces Himself By The Recognition Of His Laws !..He Then Introduces The Believer To Jesus (again imho)

And Now…

Ten Virgens..Hmmm, of course we might See thing different..(i See These People as All Saved Christians..only Some Carnal,..Some Spirit Filled)
But Here Goes..

Mat 25:1-13 Jesus was referring to end things..5-wise (spirit filled) 5-foolish (carnal)
after Jesus Died..pentecost..Life in the spirit is compared..
Some reference he eluded to were...
oil-spirit..foolish told to buy oil- It was a Taunt (spirit is free-cant buy) reference in revelation..rev 3:18 (laodicea)
Lord,Lord..I Know you Not...Reference to Mat 7:21 Lord,Lord..I Never Knew You..or
(difference..recognition of not knowing or having..Have not the father or Son--Non Recognition of Jesus Christ as lord..Disobedient children..still saved..but not accepting jesus as lord..only accepts as savior). Remember Growth levels baby,Child,Young men,Fathers...(Epistles of John)
Question?..So Where Do Disobedient Children Fall Into.....
Next reference Watch Therefore..Dont Know When….theres many..but look at… rev 3:3
Watch ..I Come On You Like A Theif...Day of The Lord..Judgement day (every or any day). continually being tried by fire...will you pass the test and have your oil ?..Jesus will come without you knowing! Sounds Gloomy, but in Revelation, Its the difference of an overcomer and an undercomer..Carnal or Spirit Filled...
The Progression Of Growth In God Sometimes Has Snags and interruptions…..
I Always look at parables as being for everybody and in everyones life...


Me2

 

Hello GH,
OK...So You Say That All Sin Is Paid For...When We All Get To Heaven...

Q: Is There Any Penalty For Being EVIL While On Earth?

Q: Is There Any Plans For Reconciliation After Death?
(Considering Statements Like Millinial Kingdom...)


Me2

 

Deuteronomy 1:39. Somewhat echoed in Romans 9:11.

You know, General Patton in WWII did a neat thing. He set up an ambush for Rommell. Placed his units where he *knew* Rommell would go. Sure enough, Rommell did exactly what Patton *knew* he would do. Patton was quoted as saying, "Rommell, you magnificent ____, I read your book!"

That's rather vague, but it explains what I'm trying to say. Let me know if I need to flesh it out more for you.

Um, you should look at it again. ALL of them were told to buy oil, not just the five foolish ones. The five foolish ones were the ones who didn't buy it, and were subsequently refused entrance.

We agree that "buying" is part of the parable, and not part of the translation. However, the overall picture represents our "buying into" salvation--i.e., accepting Christ--and subsequent denial to those who didn't.

Jesus' description of hell, and then the subsequent revelation in a vision to John of the same thing (flames and torment)? Coincidence? Are you sure?

Didn't you make just make a case for nothing being coincidence?

Again, you don't have to ascribe to a notion of hell; your choice. But it doesn't fit the notion of a wrathful God (see Romans 12--vengeance is His) whose enemies are at His feet (His enemies will become His footstool).

 

Hi Don,

Mat 25:1 Then shall the knigdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
25:4 But The wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the Bridegroom cometh: go ye out to meet him.
25:7 Then All those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your Oil; for our lamps are gone out.
25:9 But The wise answered, saying, Not So; Lest there be not enough for us and you: But go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

Just A Reinteration....

I Thought You Were Going To Say Something About The Rapture or Second Coming...
As Ive Also Been Taught In Baptist Sunday Schools.....
I Was Born In A Baptist SS..My Parent Were Staunch Baptists As I Was In My Past..
I Changed.....New And Improved

Havent you Ever Noticed The Inconsistencies In Peoples Interpretations Of Parables....
The Differences (imho) is Understanding The Character and plan of God As A Determining Factor..Much Like Saying That The Eschatology That A Person Believes Will Tell You Of Their Interpretive Skills, again, When Reading Parables.

Im Only Saying That People Grow And Change Their Beliefs as God Unfolds New Perspectives concerning HIS CHARACTER to the Believer....again Baby, Child (Obedient & Disobedient or Carnal), young Man, and Father..Each with different levels of wisdom, understanding, Faith, and amount of Fruits, and Gifts....Makes ya wonder...

Disobedient children Are Selfish....They Dont Believe That God Loves Them (without strings)
and Dont Even waste your Time asking them if God Loves his Enemies...

This Is How I See Carnal or Disobedient Christians......They See The Existence and Necessity of Hell and Retribution. Of God Only Dying For Them, and No One Else. That They Have To Do Something To Be Approved. To Be Loved...They look at God As Human and Not Infinite..

Next Reconciliation..Want To Give It A Shot ?

What Is The Mystery Of Reconciliiation? Anyone?

Me2

 

Hi GH,

Religion Missed The Boat Huh.....That was a breath of fresh air..

Ive Always Believed That Only Dad Has The RIGHT to Tell Me What To Do.

How Do We Arrive At The Conclusion...that After Death, People who doesnt Know About Jesus...personally...

Q: How Are They To Arrive At The Conclusion That He Is Lord?
(Every Knee Bow Every Tongue Confess)

Q: Who Are The Ambassadors of Christs...and What Is The Totality of Their Responsibility
as Far As You Can Comprehend This?

Q: or If I Can Put It Another Way...what Is The Totality Of The Ministry of Reconciliation?

Please Dont Feel Obligated...But Its A Good Exercise of Structuring your ideas both Verbally and Written.....work with me here pleease

Anyone Is Welcomed To Join In

Me2


[ July 16, 2002, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: Me2 ]