High and Low Churches

This is much clearer to me now...

 

I have found the Republicans generally prefer a high church, trying to conserve historic values and order, and the showing of some class.

Democrats seem to prefer the chaos and pusedo-individuality of a low church; sort of Pentecostal wannabees, seeking the lowest common denominator.

 

I vote for both.

THe most meaningful services I've been a part of:

Tenebrae (a high-church tradition): Maundy Thursday, 1996 and 1988.
First Priority Praise (a youth-led worship event; low church to the max): August 2005.

 

Speaking of Tenebrae, our church had one last night... and we are low church.
It was very meaningful...

Most had never heard of Maundy Thursday... some were calling it Monday Thursday, and one asked me why it was called "Monkey Thursday"

I think there are things we can learn from each other when we open our hearts to different ways to worship God. When we do, we grow.

One of the sure signs of immaturity is "I want it my way"
Or, "only my way is the right way"

And this cuts both ways.
High church needs to try some low church worship.
Low church needs to try some high church worship.

 

I guess we would be Middle church.

We don't fit either group described by Tim.

We don't have any of the stuff that was named as being in a "formal" church. We don't do crosses, incense, or programs. Our ministers do not use pre-written sermons and they don't wear fancy robes.

On the same note, we are not all jumbled with no structure either. We have singing until 11am, during which anyone may call out a number from the book, but it's not many people shouting numbers all at once. At 11am, or a little before, the minister will instruct the man leading the songs that it is time to change the order of service. That is the cue for the leader to announce to the church that there will be one more song, usually selected by the minister, and he should ask for everyone to stand and sing. After that, the minister stands and makes a general welcome statement and asks for prayer requests. He then calls on one of the brethren to pray. After that, he will get in the pulpit and begin to preach on whatever he feels the Lord leading him to preach on. Our ministers do study intently during the week, and will usually have a particular subject or scripture in mind once they reach the pulpit, but once there, they depend on the Lord's guidance to lead them in what to preach on from that point. The sermon usually ends around 12pm. The minister stands in front of the pulpit, announces that the church doors are open for the reception of members, thanks everyone for coming, and either asks for a song or selects one himself. We then stand and sing and walk around and give the right hand of fellowship to the minister and the other brethren. When the song is over, the minister asks for any general announcements, such as meeting notices and the like, mentions if there is anything else scheduled for the day, such as lunch, conference, communion, and then he asks one of the brethren to dismiss us in prayer.

That seems pretty structured to me, but it is nothing like High or Low church as mentioned by Tim.

 

My definition of Low church may have been too extreme, but it is based on the churches I grew up in. Anyone has my permission to shoot holes in my definition...

 

TinyTim has it right. There are two main strains of Baptist churches in regards to worship. Both date back to the 1750's. They are the Charleston (SC) strain and the Sandy Creek (NC) strain. These two highlight the contrast between high church and low church among Baptists. They might be characterized as the contrast between "head' and "heart". The Charleston strain is more formal, more interested in liturgy, and wants an educated clergy. The Sandy Creek strain is less formal, more emotional, more spontaneous, and less interested in an educated clergy.

Most churches contain a mixture of elements from both strains. If nothing else, the two strains show the breadth of our humanity encompassed by our religious faith. Both are needed but it is hard to keep both strains balanced in one congregation.

Tim Reynolds
(We Tims have to stick together!)

 

excellent call on the Sandy Creek and Charleston traditions. That really sums it up.

You'll notice the differences in the architecture of low and high churches. Of the few Baptist high churches there is a tall, arched ceiling with furniture and ornaments all pointing to the high church tradition. Usually a large pipe organ occupies the central portion of the platform (or at least a prominent spot) with accompanying instruments around it. The pulpit area is very elevated and very traditionally placed. Sermons will certainly be expository (whatever that means to you) but not much in regards to movement or getting outside the box. (Please don't take this the wrong way) Most high churches I've been to remind of Episcopal and Catholic churches where I've attended Mass in their architecture.

The Baptist low church tradition I've attended have more plain architecture and lower ceilings. (Honestly the ceiling height is one of the principal difference in explaining the two sides.) The worship is more free and less formal with a variety of instruments, styles, and orders available. Rarely will you see many ornaments in the sanctuary (or even heard it referred to as such.) In regards to preaching it is often more free flowing and the preacher can get out of the box as he deems fit. You'll also see less hymnal use and more large screens and such in the worship center.

Just a thought I had tonight. I enjoy both types...though I believe I lean more towards the Sandy Creek tradition.

 

Technically all Baptist churches are "low church." High church refers to churches with formal liturgies, such as Anglican, Catholic, etc. Baptists have always rejected those formal liturgies.

 

Part of the challenge, when you find yourself in one or the other of these traditions, and know that it should not be idolized, is to blend them and show how the "foreign" one instructs and enriches the other. The church to which I was called more than 20 years ago had been steered in the formal, high church, direction. At some point, for example, the central pulpit had been removed and replaced by an "altar" in the center of the platform. (I put that in quotes because of course it was NOT an altar in the Catholic sense). There are two lecterns, or pulpits, one on either side. Typically preaching was done from one of these by the pastor, and other elements of the service were led by the assistant pastor from the other side. So far no problem.

But I was told when I arrived such things as, "We don't announce the hymns; the numbers are printed in the bulletin." So when it came time for a hymn, the organist would just start the introduction, and I would see people scrambling around trying to figure out what we were singing. You can guess how long I "obeyed" that dictum.

And I was also told, "There is no need to make announcements; they are also printed in the bulletin". It took only a couple of weeks for me to see that people were not paying much attention to what was printed, nor did they have any sense of what mattered most to the pastor. So I began to do announcements.

Third, I was "instructed", we always use The Lord's Prayer. After a few weeks of that, I saw what vain repetition is all about, and began to introduce a pastoral prayer, sometimes with and sometimes without The Lord's Prayer as a coda, and later introduced bidding prayers and sentence prayers (lots of silence the first few times I suggested that one).

All of this to say that gradually people can accept elements of the low church tradition, if they are genuine and not just rah-rah.

At the same time, I also introduced a richer high-church tradition. In addition to the traditional seasons of Advent/Christmas and Lent/Holy Week/Easter, which they already observed, I led them to observe Epiphany, Easter as a season instead of one day only, Pentecost, and a number of other items, like Reformation Sunday. They came to look forward to these things.

I should add that the tradition of robes and candles was there when I arrived, and I saw no reason to change that. Wearing a robe neither improves nor deters my fairly vigorous preaching style. And yes, I often got out of the "box" behind that off-to-one-side pulpit!

 

Tim,

You have answered one of the burning questions of my life. Back in my college days (small private college in WV), I attended several services at a church back in the woods that conducted services just as you describe. I have no idea what their doctrine was but it had to be fairly fundamental. At that time in my life I was not very interested in doctrine.

So now I know that it was a low church style of worship. It was very interesting and not easy to forget. I would like to go back there (if it is still around) although I don't think I could make a steady diet of it, but you never know. Today I would be looking past the actual service and into doctrine and other activities. Today I live in NE PA and don't get into the mountain state very often. I'm sure there are some around this area but I don't know of any.

Tom

 

That's the way I always have understood this also.

 

I am glad I could help.
If you could let me know what part of WV the church was in, I may know if it still exists...

I miss those types sometimes.
As a matter of fact I am holding a revival next month at my home church.
And it will be nice to see that type of service again.
Oh, another thing, it is nothing for a Sunday evening, or Wednesday evening service to last 2-3 hours in this type of church.

With everyone testifying that wants to. (some 5-10 minutes long) and everyone singing that wants to, sometimes it is 1 1/2 hours after the service starts before the preacher preaches

Something else, not every low church in WV is like this.
I pastor one now that has no idea what it means for the men to come up around the altar and have a concert prayer... I know... I tried it one night, thinking they would know... but they had no idea what I was talking about....

 

"High church Baptist" is an oxymoron, and one I never conceived of until this thread started.

Was the baptist way of worship not conceived in large part as a rejection of formal liturgy? This entire thread is based on misunderstood terminology.

Please read what "high church" really means:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_church

and "low church":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_church

I had no idea there was such a strong Anglican sentiment among Baptists.

 

Tiny, omigoodnessdearbrother, you really put your foot in it as far as I am concerned.

 

I guess from the descriptions that have been offered that we would be "middle Church."

The Praise team leads the music with the lyrics/ w graphics shown on PowerPoint. Some are choruses, and some are traditional hymns.

Some of the announcements are read by the Pastor, he then refers us the other announcements in the bulletin.

After his message the Pastor announces that the altars are open for prayer.

The service closes with generally 2 choruses led by the Praise Team. The Pastor then gives the closing Prayer and the congregation is dismissed.

We celebrate Advent, Good Friday, Easter, and Christmas, but not some of the other holidays that have been mentioned in this thread. We usually have an evening service on Christmas Eve.

Guess we're a "blended" service.

 

Tim,

This church was near Salem, Harrison County WV. I think the name was Holy Temple. It was in a small building off the beaten path.

On the other hand, I remember going to a rather large Baptist Church in Clarksburg (i think it was clarksburg) which fits the definition of high worship. That was the one and only time I have been to that type of service in a Baptist Church as well. All of the rest of my experiences would be the type in between the two.

Tom

 

What did I put my foot into?

My mouth...

or did I step in something more gross?:laugh: :laugh:
You know those cow chips in WV are almost as big as they are in TX (at least I am told that!!) :wavey:

What did I say that was wrong.. .am I missing something?

 

Tiny, I do honestly believe that YOU have no idea what liturgy is, and that you should come down here the third weekend in July for a REAL "low church" service and find out more about that, too!