Hip hop church

[Pastor Larry]

Although I am by no means a hip-hop fan, isn't it possible to "preach Christ and Him crucified" within a hip-hop setting?

Within a hiphop setting? Probably. With a hip hop genre? Doubtful. We need to make this distinction clear.

It's done in a high-church setting, and a country-church setting, cowboy-church setting, casual-church setting, etc.

Is it? I am not so sure about this. The gospel is not a cultural toy to be molded and melded into our personal tastes. The gospel is a call to self-denial, not self-fulfillment, and that certainly extends to our "worship" styles.

Our methods of presenting that gospel better change (to some extent) if we will ever reach today's younger generation.

In what way? Do you not believe that today's younger generation can participate in listenign to the gospel and interacting with it? Without their pop music they will not see the claims of Christ? I think there are some things that can and should change, or at least that are flexible. I don't think there is nearly so much as people imagine.

The days of opening the church doors and the lost file in are long gone.

I don't think these days were ever here. Notice the result of this is church's with huge membership rolls and small attendance. The gospel work did not really get done.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Although I am by no means a hip-hop fan, isn't it possible to "preach Christ and Him crucified" within a hip-hop setting? It's done in a high-church setting, and a country-church setting, cowboy-church setting, casual-church setting, etc.

The gospel is unchanging - it is Christ and Him crucified. Our methods of presenting that gospel better change (to some extent) if we will ever reach today's younger generation.

The days of opening the church doors and the lost file in are long gone. We have to find some way to reach them with an accurate message where they are.

I would trust the Holy Spirit and Him only for everything from the power of preaching to the power of presenting the gospel to the financial needs of the church and its preachers, and not wring my hands and cry "woe, woe, woe" I need ideas to find those guys and bring them in to church.

 

[pinoybaptist]

I agree that most of the hip hop language comes from violence and drugs, because that's the culture of hip hop. But something like a hip hop church disarms the language and may also disarm the culture. It's distantly related to the phenomenon of how your parents disarm language when they adopt it. When parents started using the word "groovy", that was the first sign that it was no longer cool to say "groovy".

Uhmmmmm.....so I guess us adults goin' hiphop ain't such a bad idea after all....dawg.

 

[James_Newman]

Uhmmmmm.....so I guess us adults goin' hiphop ain't such a bad idea after all....dawg.

Well in an age where 45 year old women try to dress like Britney Spears, why would I be shocked to find grown men with their pants sagging below their buttocks?

 

[preachinjesus]

Lots of the arguments against this idea seem to be coming from a very troubling view of hip-hop as a legitimate cultural and ethnic expression. That is deeply troubling for me to read for in reality many of our own cultural expressions are rooted in the same kinds perceived hedonistic pursuits, lacivious behavior, social animous, and mankind's depravity.

If you are going to critique the Hip-Hop culture, I hope you are equally as willing to do so to all the other expressions around us, including the ones you exist within.

 

[CheeseCrackerKidd]

Lots of the arguments against this idea seem to be coming from a very troubling view of hip-hop as a legitimate cultural and ethnic expression. That is deeply troubling for me to read for in reality many of our own cultural expressions are rooted in the same kinds perceived hedonistic pursuits, lacivious behavior, social animous, and mankind's depravity.

If you are going to critique the Hip-Hop culture, I hope you are equally as willing to do so to all the other expressions around us, including the ones you exist within.

I did speak against other forms of worldly values when I made this statement on the first page of this thread:

We do not need to act like the rappers, hip-hoppers, rockers, druggies, bar-room dancers, etc., to bring them in.

 

[J.D.]

Question: If I showed up at hip-hop church with my coat and tie, with a bible tucked under my arm, and I refused to dance, would I be accused of "not having the spirit"?

 

[D28guy]

If I visited I couldnt make it through more than about one minute of the noise going on that they might call "music".

I'd have to spend the entire *music* time out in the parking lot out of ear shot of it.

The message and fellowship might be wonderful, but I cant take the noise hip hop and rap makes.

Mike

 

[tinytim]

If I visited I couldnt make it through more than about one minute of the noise going on that they might call "music".

I'd have to spend the entire *music* time out in the parking lot out of ear shot of it.

The message and fellowship might be wonderful, but I cant take the noise hip hop and rap makes.

Mike

I feel the same way when I enter a bluegrass gospel church....

All the twang is not music.. but that is my opinion... And should be kept out of church... country music was built upon twang, cheating, drinking, and such... and when we sing songs with country flavor, we are associating with this type of music...

Now even though I don't like bluegrass, everything I said above I disagree with...
Just replace the words "bluegrass", and "country" above with "hip hop", and you will see my point...

I have been thinking.

All of this started with Evangelism Explosion back in the 60s and 70s, and the copy cat evangelism programs that followed...
I went through one called, "Drawing the Net" and one of the principles that IFBs taught back then was, "you have to win the people to you before you win them to the Lord"

Even Hyles taught this in evangelism/ soul winning books...
It was taught that when you enter a home, you compliment the people.. you do whatever you have to to win their trust in you...
Then... BAM... you introduce Christ to them.

Now fast forward 30 yrs...
Some want to witness to people that are not like them... and are wanting to win their trust before sharing Christ....

Really there is nothing different... except the stereotypes that are being exposed...

Stereotypes are wrong whether it is against the Hip hop culture.. or the down home, country hillbilly...

Jesus died for all, not just people like you.

 

[npetreley]

\

Logos. er...I mean...Word.

λέξη σε δικό σου μητέρα

 

[J.D.]

I would fit in very well at a cowboy church. I would never fit in at a hip hop church.

I wouldn't attend either. [edit: to clarify - I wouldn't attend the cowboy church or the hip hop church]

Why do churches have to be built around their particular sub-cultural identity?

Wouldn't it be better to be as culturally neutral as possible so that all may come to the unity of the faith?

 

[vermae]

What does Hip Hop represent culturally? What do you think of when you think of Hip Hop? Who will be the music director an :godisgood: Eminem look alike?

I really think hip hop is evil.Nothing good will come of it.We should become more like Christ instead we are letting ourselves be pattern after the world.Why can't the world be like christens No !!!!! we are letting the world dictate to us,

 

[tinytim]

If hip hop music is evil.... what is evil about it?
What sin is committed?

In order for it to be evil, a sin has to be committed...

Let's analyze it...
What if the lyrics are Christ honoring... then what...

And since we are Baptists.... The Bible must be our authority.

So using the Bible... Name the sin.
All I have seen so far is prejudice against a certain genre of music...
Where are the scriptures? Specific scriptures that condemn the sin of hip hop..

 

[CheeseCrackerKidd]

If hip hop music is evil.... what is evil about it?
What sin is committed?

In order for it to be evil, a sin has to be committed...

Let's analyze it...
What if the lyrics are Christ honoring... then what...

And since we are Baptists.... The Bible must be our authority.

So using the Bible... Name the sin.
All I have seen so far is prejudice against a certain genre of music...
Where are the scriptures? Specific scriptures that condemn the sin of hip hop..

Name the sin? How about serving two masters? How about drinking of the cup of the Lord and the cup of devils? How about being conformed to this world?

Enough sin?

 

[tinytim]

Name the sin? How about serving two masters? How about drinking of the cup of the Lord and the cup of devils? How about being conformed to this world?

Enough sin?

Those can be applied to a multitude of things we do....

How is a Christian hip hop singer that is Christ honoring in his lyrics serving two masters?
How are they drinking from the cup of devils?

What music is not conformed to the world?
African Christians sing music based in their culture.
Chinese Christians sing music based in their culture.
Japanese .... you get the point.

People living in the Southern USA AKA the Bible belt sing gospel music that comes from Country music...
both Southern Gospel, and country music have the same roots...

Hymns derived from the culture they were written in...

I submit that all music we sing is culturally related to the culture we live in. Therefore, all music Christians sing can be seen as being conformed to the world.

It might help to do a word study on the word "conformed."

It does not merely mean "look like"
Or else, our church buildings must be torn down.
The buildings look like other worldly buildings...

Your dress would have to change..
You dress like the culture you live in..
No?.... do you wear a robe? Do you wear a Kelt?

You wear what others around you in your culture expects you to wear.

Again.. what SIN are singers of Christian hip hop music committing?

I can't believe I am finding myself defending hip hop... I can't stand the stuff!!!
But that is because of culture, and not Bible...
I'll admit it.. it is not from my culture, and I don't like it...

But I am not going to be all holy like, and declare that just because I don't like it, it is a sin....
That is the sin of pride....

 

[Steven2006]

It wouldn't be my cup of tea, but before I would criticize it, I would need to know more. If they were rapping instead of preaching the word of God, I would have a problem with that. But if they were just rapping their music, I don't have a problem with that as long as the lyrics honored God. And if music is the reason it is a Hip Hop Church, then I don't see where it would be fair for them to be criticized. I personally like traditional hymns, but I don't think scripturally you can dictate the music choice of others . The lyrics however are important, that is what really determines if a song is honoring God or not.

But I digress, to get back to the original OP, why can't people have a church that is more in tune to what they are comfortable with, as long as they preach the word of God? I have seen plenty of pictures of missions churches, or heard vocals of mission churches, that appeared much different from what you or I would be used to, but they were clearly biblically grounded, Godly Churches. It was just apparent that their culture had an influence on the local Church.

 

[CheeseCrackerKidd]

Those can be applied to a multitude of things we do....

How is a Christian hip hop singer that is Christ honoring in his lyrics serving two masters?
How are they drinking from the cup of devils?

What music is not conformed to the world?
African Christians sing music based in their culture.
Chinese Christians sing music based in their culture.
Japanese .... you get the point.

People living in the Southern USA AKA the Bible belt sing gospel music that comes from Country music...
both Southern Gospel, and country music have the same roots...

Hymns derived from the culture they were written in...

I submit that all music we sing is culturally related to the culture we live in. Therefore, all music Christians sing can be seen as being conformed to the world.

It might help to do a word study on the word "conformed."

It does not merely mean "look like"
Or else, our church buildings must be torn down.
The buildings look like other worldly buildings...

Your dress would have to change..
You dress like the culture you live in..
No?.... do you wear a robe? Do you wear a Kelt?

You wear what others around you in your culture expects you to wear.

Again.. what SIN are singers of Christian hip hop music committing?

I can't believe I am finding myself defending hip hop... I can't stand the stuff!!!
But that is because of culture, and not Bible...
I'll admit it.. it is not from my culture, and I don't like it...

But I am not going to be all holy like, and declare that just because I don't like it, it is a sin....
That is the sin of pride....

Now see, here's the problem. You say the lyrics are Christ honoring. God's Word says we cannot serve both the Lord and the devil.

You see nothing wrong with bringing the worldly values in the Church under the guise of Christianity. God's Word says be not conformed to this world. God's Word says come out from among them and be ye separate and I will receive you.

God's Word says if we are lukewarm, He will spue us out of His mouth. Being rejected by Christ doesn't sound Christ honoring to me.

 

[Pastor Larry]

If hip hop music is evil.... what is evil about it?
What sin is committed?

The sin of profanity.

In order for it to be evil, a sin has to be committed...

That's a faulty view of evil. Something is evil when it does not conform to God, not just when a sin is committed. Evil is objective, not experiential.

Let's analyze it...
What if the lyrics are Christ honoring... then what...

The lyrics are not the only thing to consider. It is possible to say a right thing in a wrong way, to wed lyrics with a musical setting that contradicts it. If you use profanity while preaching the gospel, you are wrong. The same thing is true in music.

And since we are Baptists.... The Bible must be our authority.

The Bible does teach us how to think and evaluate things. The Bible as the sole authority does not mean that everything sin is mentioned in the Bible. Galatians 5 gives a list of sins followed by 'things like these.' Clearly, God intends for us to be able to understand that not all sins are listed in Scripture.

All I have seen so far is prejudice against a certain genre of music...

I haven't seen any prejudice against a certain genre of music. Personally, my concern is for the integrity of the message.

Where are the scriptures? Specific scriptures that condemn the sin of hip hop..

When one understands the Scripture and understands hip hop culture, it is not hard to figure oiut.

 

[Steven2006]

The lyrics are not the only thing to consider. It is possible to say a right thing in a wrong way, to wed lyrics with a musical setting that contradicts it. If you use profanity while preaching the gospel, you are wrong. The same thing is true in music.

I think if a person uses profanity, then everyone would agree the lyrics were wrong. But why can't the lyrics be entirely God honoring, but sung with a hip hop style? Why do you assume a Church would use profanity in their lyrics? I actually find it amazing that you assume that they would use profanity.

 

[tinytim]

I think if a person uses profanity, then everyone would agree the lyrics were wrong. But why can't the lyrics be entirely God honoring, but sung with a hip hop style? Why do you assume a Church would use profanity in their lyrics? I actually find it amazing that you assume that they would use profanity.

Of course profanity would be off limits... of course.. I'm not talking about that.. I am talking about Christian hip hop artists that present the Gospel through their music....

It all boils down to what we PERCEIVE as Godly...

What is wrong with a hip hop beat? Where is the sin?

Just saying it is worldly is not getting it...
That is a cop out....

I could say Southern Gospel is worldly because it sounds like Country...
I could say Hymns are worldly because they sounded like the tunes of the time they were written...
I could say the pews in our church are worldly because they are padded...
Same with:
Carpet, pianos, organs, indoor plumbing, parking lots, etc...

The world has them, so they must be worldly...

In the Bible the term worldly meant sinful...
now, what is the sin?

In order for it to be sinful.. it has to be sin.

verses please...