Hip hop church

[Archeryaddict]

well this thread definatwely indicates that traditonalisim is alive and well within the church.

does anyone know how many times the Psalmnist wrote about singing a new song
and dancing to rejoice in the Lord?

it is going to be awfully awkward to all the tratitonalists if the song of the Redeemed has a hip hop beat to it:tongue3:

times are changing folks the method of worship needs to be fresh as long as the central message remains the same.

I am sorry but I am not going to sit in the pew like a stick in the mud when I can lift my Praise to God with excitement!
I don't want to be lukewarm I want to be on fire for Christ and sorry folks but the songs in the hymnal don't always express my joy afresh.

if anyone has a problem with that... well then that is your problem
If God wanted everyone to worship him the exact same way then he would have created robots instead of humans whoit just so happens that I know He created us in His own image.

 

[SaggyWoman]

If there were a hip hop church near me I would check it out.

 

[Steven2006]

Of course profanity would be off limits... of course.. I'm not talking about that.. I am talking about Christian hip hop artists that present the Gospel through their music....

It all boils down to what we PERCEIVE as Godly...

What is wrong with a hip hop beat? Where is the sin?

Just saying it is worldly is not getting it...
That is a cop out....

I could say Southern Gospel is worldly because it sounds like Country...
I could say Hymns are worldly because they sounded like the tunes of the time they were written...
I could say the pews in our church are worldly because they are padded...
Same with:
Carpet, pianos, organs, indoor plumbing, parking lots, etc...

The world has them, so they must be worldly...

In the Bible the term worldly meant sinful...
now, what is the sin?

In order for it to be sinful.. it has to be sin.

verses please...

I agree 100%. I personally can't stand hip hop music, but I don't know how we can call the style a sin if the words are Godly. For all we know they might be using traditional hymns, but with a hip hop style. Really none of us here knows enough about this church to say with authority. We just hear "hip hop" and form conclusions.

 

[Archeryaddict]

Of course profanity would be off limits... of course.. I'm not talking about that.. I am talking about Christian hip hop artists that present the Gospel through their music....

It all boils down to what we PERCEIVE as Godly...

What is wrong with a hip hop beat? Where is the sin?

Just saying it is worldly is not getting it...
That is a cop out....

I could say Southern Gospel is worldly because it sounds like Country...
I could say Hymns are worldly because they sounded like the tunes of the time they were written...
I could say the pews in our church are worldly because they are padded...
Same with:
Carpet, pianos, organs, indoor plumbing, parking lots, etc...

The world has them, so they must be worldly...

In the Bible the term worldly meant sinful...
now, what is the sin?

In order for it to be sinful.. it has to be sin.

verses please...

I would add that I have heard many southern gospel songs sound downright like a honky tonk song until I hear the lyrics

people need to Stop Judging by their ignorance!

God uses Gospel Hip Hop and rap to reach out to the inner city that could not otherwise be reached.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pbff6rq24w&mode=related&search=

 

[CheeseCrackerKidd]

I agree 100%. I personally can't stand hip hop music, but I don't know how we can call the style a sin if the words are Godly. For all we know they might be using traditional hymns, but with a hip hop style. Really none of us here knows enough about this church to say with authority. We just hear "hip hop" and form conclusions.

In 1 Corinthians 14:40, the Apostle Paul wrote "Let all things be done decently and in order." Where is there order in hip-hop? What is decent about it?

The Father's house is to be a house of prayer, not a place to rap and break dance.

 

[npetreley]

I agree 100%. I personally can't stand hip hop music, but I don't know how we can call the style a sin if the words are Godly. For all we know they might be using traditional hymns, but with a hip hop style. Really none of us here knows enough about this church to say with authority. We just hear "hip hop" and form conclusions.

True, true. I hate hip hop, and I hate heavy metal. Heavy metal music was practically synonymous with satanic. Then some heavy metal Christian bands popped up. They divorced the music style from its roots and praised God with it. Is that wrong? I sure don't think so. I still don't like heavy metal, but I'm not going to gripe about people who praise God with it.

 

[4boys4joys]

Oxy Moron !!!

Hip hop and church should not even be put together in the same sentence. The very same hip hop culture that promotes and displays wickedness and sin and then in the next breath thanks God for it's success in the contribution of misguiding our youth into temptaion and sin that leaves them without hope and some without a saving knowledege of Christ.

Please order the book Music Matters from Striving Together Ministries or listen to the sermon Music Matters at www.lancasterbaptist.org.

If we do not come out from among them I guess that means we are in them.:tear:

 

[D28guy]

Tiny Tim,

I said...

"

Originally Posted by D28guy
If I visited I couldnt make it through more than about one minute of the noise going on that they might call "music".

I'd have to spend the entire *music* time out in the parking lot out of ear shot of it.

The message and fellowship might be wonderful, but I cant take the noise hip hop and rap makes.

And you said...

"I feel the same way when I enter a bluegrass gospel church...."

Then if that were the case it would be a good idea for you to not have as a home church one that plays a lot of bluegrass gospel. Just like I couldnt fellowship in the one doing the rap noise.

"All the twang is not music.. but that is my opinion... And should be kept out of church... country music was built upon twang, cheating, drinking, and such... and when we sing songs with country flavor, we are associating with this type of music..."

If you go back and read my post you will see that I never said rap noise or hip hop noise should not be in a particular church. If that is the type of praise and worship noise they want to listen to, and they are blessed by it, then they should by all means have their band play it. I DO NOT think it should be considered off limits in a christian church. Why should it, if its being done respectfully and not in a gangland thug way? If the folks there like it, than have it!

It simply can not be in any church that I PERSONALLY attend. I would have to leave, due to the headaches and sickness that would come upon me during each service. Thats the only point I was making. (I'm serious when I say that. The very negative reactions inevitably come any time I have to listen to more than about a minute or so of rap or hip hop noise)

Grace and peace,

Mike.

 

[4boys4joys]

Style vs. Distinction

Why is the discussion about personal preference. That is why we get in trouble. We pick a church based on personal preferences instead of one that resembles the Bible. In seeking to find Christ honoring music it is not about preference it is about distinction. Can I tell that this music is not of this world. If you are going thru a drive thru and you are playing your "Christian" rap song. Then you offer a tract to the attendant there, the first thought may be why is a Christian playing a rap song. Never mind the lyrics are changed.

People know when something is different. And wordly music in our churches just causes a stumbling block to salvation and growing in the Lord.

It is not about preference. If Hip Hop was the distinctive sound versus the world's music even if I did not prefer it. I should worship with it because it is peculiar and unlike the world.

The sign of a maturing Christian is one who puts responsibility over rights and liberty. I pray I would do so.:type:

 

[D28guy]

Tiny Tim,

You said...

"If hip hop music is evil.... what is evil about it?
What sin is committed?

In order for it to be evil, a sin has to be committed...

Let's analyze it...
What if the lyrics are Christ honoring... then what."

I was posting back and forth with someone a while back on a different christian board and I shared with him the same things I have shared here. I told him I would have no problem with christian rap or hip hop if it were done respectully, and if you could understand the message being presented. I told him that I personally probably wouldnt enjoy it...only because of how horrible it sounds to my ears...but I would give it my blessing.

I told him that the *christian* rap and hip hop I have seen on christian TV is no different than the degenerate gargage the gang goons are spewing out. They lurch around like thugs, and I have no idea whether its christian or not because I cant understand a word they are saying.

He then pointed me to a particular group. The groups name was Crosstalk. He said these guys are solid christians with a solid christian message and you can understand the message.

I went to Amazon.com and looked up the CD he recommended. I listened to the song samples.

I didnt understand one single word of anything, other than an occasional "He" or "you" etc every once in a while. Completly incomprehensible noise. Very UGLY and incomprehensible noise. Nothing even remotely close to actual sentances being sung, or any kind of perceptable "message" of any kind.

And its not just this hip hop and rap noise. I saw some CCM christian rock video recently on TV. They were obviously after the Kurt Cobain/Nirvana type of "grunge" sound. Same problem. Just like the christian rappers lurking around like goons and thugs, these poor kids were lurching around as if they were filled with demons or something. Couldnt understand...one...single...word...they were saying.

I personally am in favor of any and all types of music being used to proclaim the gospel and/or worship God. Even styles that I find comically ugly like rap, hip hop and grunge. If OTHER people like it than go for it. Listen to it in church, play it, worship God with it.

But certain standards have to be met, imo. Just basic things. The words have to be understandable. The people involved should behave like christians.

When the hippies got born again and brought their music into the church they cleaned up. They didnt lurch around like goons the way they used to. They stood there and played their music. You could understand the lyrics. They glorified God.

Mike

 

[D28guy]

4 Boys 4 Joys...

"Why is the discussion about personal preference. That is why we get in trouble. We pick a church based on personal preferences instead of one that resembles the Bible. In seeking to find Christ honoring music it is not about preference it is about distinction. Can I tell that this music is not of this world. If you are going thru a drive thru and you are playing your "Christian" rap song. Then you offer a tract to the attendant there, the first thought may be why is a Christian playing a rap song. Never mind the lyrics are changed."

You do understand dont you that many...and I mean MANY...of the great "Hymns of the Faith" that have been around since the time of Wesley and the other great hymn writers of those days were songs and melodys that came straight out of the pubs and drinking establishments over on the other side of the pond?

All they did was put new words to them.

Mike

 

[LeBuick]

Why is the discussion about personal preference. That is why we get in trouble. We pick a church based on personal preferences instead of one that resembles the Bible. In seeking to find Christ honoring music it is not about preference it is about distinction. Can I tell that this music is not of this world.:

What you described above is your personal preference. There is a very thin line between preference and distiction. Distinction, as you use it here, has bias based on an individuals idea of what "Church" music should sound/be like.

I am sure when Amazing Grace was written, it was not accepted every where. Yet it is fairly globally accepted today. Why, distinction? Some Churches sing it fast, other slow, some with no music and others with full orchestra but the song is accepted, why, not because of the beat or the tempo but because the song itself is accepted and those who sing it sing from the heart and in praise.

I agree that the Church has to be careful not to conform to the world. I believe that statement has more to do with the acceptance of sin and sinful lifestyle then the beat of the music or even the instruments we play.

 

[David Lamb]

Someone in my town came up with the idea to start a "hip hop church'.Do you think this is a good idea?

Are you (and they) using "hip-hop" like my dictionary definition:

popular music, art, and dance: a form of popular culture that started in African American inner-city areas, characterized by rap music, graffiti art, and breakdancing ​

If so, I think the idea of having seperate churches based on people's preferences in music, art, dance, culture, or nationality, is wrong and unbiblical. Is anyone seriously suggestion that we have a seperate church for each style of music - a mediaeval music church, a renaissance music church, a classical music church, a grunge church, a traditional jazz church, a modern jazz church, an avant-garde music church . . . the list is endless, and that's just music.

 

[tinytim]

Tiny Tim,

I said...



And you said...



Then if that were the case it would be a good idea for you to not have as a home church one that plays a lot of bluegrass gospel. Just like I couldnt fellowship in the one doing the rap noise.



If you go back and read my post you will see that I never said rap noise or hip hop noise should not be in a particular church. If that is the type of praise and worship noise they want to listen to, and they are blessed by it, then they should by all means have their band play it. I DO NOT think it should be considered off limits in a christian church. Why should it, if its being done respectfully and not in a gangland thug way? If the folks there like it, than have it!

It simply can not be in any church that I PERSONALLY attend. I would have to leave, due to the headaches and sickness that would come upon me during each service. Thats the only point I was making. (I'm serious when I say that. The very negative reactions inevitably come any time I have to listen to more than about a minute or so of rap or hip hop noise)

Grace and peace,

Mike.

ooops double post

 

[tinytim]

Tiny Tim,

I said...



And you said...



Then if that were the case it would be a good idea for you to not have as a home church one that plays a lot of bluegrass gospel. Just like I couldnt fellowship in the one doing the rap noise.



If you go back and read my post you will see that I never said rap noise or hip hop noise should not be in a particular church. If that is the type of praise and worship noise they want to listen to, and they are blessed by it, then they should by all means have their band play it. I DO NOT think it should be considered off limits in a christian church. Why should it, if its being done respectfully and not in a gangland thug way? If the folks there like it, than have it!

It simply can not be in any church that I PERSONALLY attend. I would have to leave, due to the headaches and sickness that would come upon me during each service. Thats the only point I was making. (I'm serious when I say that. The very negative reactions inevitably come any time I have to listen to more than about a minute or so of rap or hip hop noise)

Grace and peace,

Mike.

If you read below, what you quoted me saying, you will see that I said that I disagreed with everything I just wrote... I was writing it to prove a point... go back and reread the post.... I think you will see that we are actually agreeing.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Are you (and they) using "hip-hop" like my dictionary definition:

popular music, art, and dance: a form of popular culture that started in African American inner-city areas, characterized by rap music, graffiti art, and breakdancing ​

That'll be one for the books, David Lamb.
Big compounds with big buildings. Soon as you enter the main one, you get separated by age and preferences.

Hip hop over here -----> rap about Jesus ! free spray paint cans with erasable spray paint ! Use the walls to mark your Jesus colors on ! Praise the Lord in breakdancing !! Tell your friends about it !! Meet the preacher, a real dawg !!:laugh:

 

[Pastor Larry]

You do understand dont you that many...and I mean MANY...of the great "Hymns of the Faith" that have been around since the time of Wesley and the other great hymn writers of those days were songs and melodys that came straight out of the pubs and drinking establishments over on the other side of the pond?

All they did was put new words to them.

This is simply not true. It is an oft repeated argument that has no actual merit to it. Among others, Paul S. Jones addressed this argument in his recent book entitled (I believe) Singing and Making Melody in the Church" or perhaps just "Singing in the Church." Jones' book is fair, not great. But he does address this argument and show it to be false.

So let's dispense with its use.

 

[Pastor Larry]

I think if a person uses profanity, then everyone would agree the lyrics were wrong. But why can't the lyrics be entirely God honoring, but sung with a hip hop style?

Hip hop is musical profanity. It is a distortion of form that carries with it an immoral message inherently. The words don't change that.

Why do you assume a Church would use profanity in their lyrics?

I don't.

I actually find it amazing that you assume that they would use profanity.

I actually find it amazing that you think I assumed that.

 

[Pastor Larry]

well this thread definatwely indicates that traditonalisim is alive and well within the church.

Yes it does ... most notably the tradition that man gets to decide what is pleasing to God. Face it, the arguments used to support hip hop are nothing but traditionalism that have been plugged into forms of music for years. The arguments stay the same, the form of music changes.

does anyone know how many times the Psalmnist wrote about singing a new song and dancing to rejoice in the Lord?

Yes, I wouldn't argue with that.

it is going to be awfully awkward to all the tratitonalists if the song of the Redeemed has a hip hop beat to it

It won't. The song of the redeemed is a new song, not the old worldly song. If you notice the new song texts, it is about the change of life that comes to those following God. The hip hop argument is an old song argument, that we can take the songs of the old life and use them in the new, even though in the old life the form was created to celebrate worldliness. Why in God's name would anyone with a modicum of knowledge about God think that was okay?

times are changing folks the method of worship needs to be fresh as long as the central message remains the same.

Do you have some Scripture for this?

I am sorry but I am not going to sit in the pew like a stick in the mud when I can lift my Praise to God with excitement!

You shouldn't. But why does that require hip hop?

I don't want to be lukewarm I want to be on fire for Christ and sorry folks but the songs in the hymnal don't always express my joy afresh.

Perhaps this is because you don't know God as well as you should, or because you hvae a wrong hymnal, or because you have a distorted joy. When you compare the words of great hymns with most modern praise music, you see a great difference in depth and expression of hte manifold glorifes of God. They are old hymns for a reason .. They have stood the test of time and been honored by people who love God as appropriate expressions of worship.

if anyone has a problem with that... well then that is your problem

Is it? If you stand before God and he says you were worshipping him wrong, how will that be my problem?

If God wanted everyone to worship him the exact same way then he would have created robots instead of humans

Really? On what Scripture do you base this? You ever think about sin entering the picture? That is the worship problem.

whoit just so happens that I know He created us in His own image.

I agree.

I think the problem we are seeing here again (as usual in these kinds of discussions) is that people don't have much of a grasp on biblical worship and are driven by what they like and what they feel. I think that is dangerous.

Here we have someone saying "I like what I like and if you don't like it, then that is your problem." How is that compatible with the mind of Christ, love for the brothers in Christ, and the word of God? Can you find any scriptural justification for that? I can't. It's a dangerous place to be in.

 

[vermae]

Now see, here's the problem. You say the lyrics are Christ honoring. God's Word says we cannot serve both the Lord and the devil.

You see nothing wrong with bringing the worldly values in the Church under the guise of Christianity. God's Word says be not conformed to this world. God's Word says come out from among them and be ye separate and I will receive you.

God's Word says if we are lukewarm, He will spue us out of His mouth. Being rejected by Christ doesn't sound Christ honoring to me.[/quote ]If we are going to do the same thing in church that the world is doing why should we even be saved.This is called haveing your cake and eating it too.The drug and haveing babies and killings are all associated with this kind of music.Becoming a christian this type of liveing should be the last thing you would want in your life.When Igo to church on Sunday I don't want to hear this stuff.Music should not be the calling card to get people to join the church.If the Word of God don't do it let them stay out there till they are ready to change.We should not lower our priciples.This is called takeing matters in your own hands.Pray and God will handle it.I think the rush is not to save souls but greed to build bigger churches and line your pocketsraying: