His Elect !

[Jerry Shugart]

Did the shoe fit?

I believe so. No one has demonstrated that wht I said here is not true:

Paul tells us exactly how people are chosen from the beginning for salvation:

"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" (2 Thess.2:13).

Those who "believe" are chosen for salvation. God's choice is based on His "foreknowledge":

"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ" (1 Pet.1:2).

One of the meanings of the Greek word translated "according" at 1 Peter 1:2 is "in consequence of" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So the saved are described as "elect" and their election is "in consequence of" God's foreknowledge, knowing beforehand who will believe and who will not.

 

[savedbymercy]

jerry

Those who "believe" are chosen for salvation

Thats a false gospel of works, those who are Chosen believe !

Isa 43:10

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

 

[gb93433]

I believe so. No one has demonstrated that wht I said here is not true:

Paul tells us exactly how people are chosen from the beginning for salvation:

"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" (2 Thess.2:13).

Those who "believe" are chosen for salvation. God's choice is based on His "foreknowledge":

"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ" (1 Pet.1:2).

"Chosen" is used in the context of Jewish understanding and not it terms of calvinism. Too many use the "say after me" kind of interpretation.The chosen are those among the called.

 

[mandym]

jerry



Thats a false gospel of works, those who are Chosen believe !

Isa 43:10

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Show me in scripture that believing is works.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Show me in scripture that believing is works.

You are right, mandym. Here Paul makes it plain that faith is not a work:

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Ro.4:5).

 

[savedbymercy]

Show me in scripture that believing is works.

Its quite simple, believing is something man does ! The word work used is ergon and it means:



business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

Believing is something commaned to do 1 Jn 3:23

23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ

So, according to the inspired word for work, believing is a work, a work of the mind !

If you believe or teach that one is saved because they believed, then that is salvation by works, something they did !

 

[savedbymercy]

jerry

You are right, mandym. Here Paul makes it plain that faith is not a work:

Paul never said Faith was not a work ! Faith is an act of obedience, so its a work..Rom 16:26

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

 

[DHK]

jerry



Paul never said Faith was not a work ! Faith is an act of obedience, so its a work..Rom 16:26

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Weymouth's Translation:

but has now been brought fully to light, and by the command of the God of the Ages has been made known by the writings of the Prophets among all the Gentiles to win them to obedience to the faith--

In the Book of Jude it tells us to "contend for the faith, as here it admonishes us to obey the faith, that is that body of doctrine which is our canon of Scriptures. It is our faith. It is not speaking of faith as in trust or confidence here.

Faith or trust is not a work. It is not something that is DONE The day that you can hire me for DOING faith, I will immediately accept the job. It is not a work.

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

Faith or trust is not a work. It is not something that is DONE

Thats not True ! Believing in Christ is something man does ! It is commanded to be done. 1 Jn 3:23

23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Are you telling me that a commandment is not something that should be done ?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

jerry

Paul never said Faith was not a work ! Faith is an act of obedience, so its a work..Rom 16:26

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Paul clearly tells us that if it is of grace then it is not of "works":

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).

Then Paul tells us in no uncertain terms that it is not "works" that justifies a man but instead his "faith":

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Ro.4:4).

It is those who do "not work" but instead "believe" who are justified.

That means that Paul did not consider "faith" a "work."

Are you telling me that a commandment is not something that should be done ?

I never said that "believing" is something that cannot be done but just because something can be done does not mean that it is a "work."

 

[savedbymercy]

jerry

Paul clearly tells us that if it is of grace then it is not of "works":

Thats True, if one's Justification was made known to them by faith , then it was not of works. But that would mean that one is Justified before they have it revealed to them by Faith.

However, if you take Faith to be a condition that one must perform to get saved, then thats works.

You take faith as a condition or duty man must do to get saved, Paul never taught that heresy.

 

[savedbymercy]

jerry

I never said that "believing" is something that cannot be done but just because something can be done does not mean that it is a "work."

Yes it does. A work is something man does. The word work is the greek word ergon and means:

business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

Now who wants to deny that believing is not a thing accomplished by the mind or the heart ?

Who is going to deny that believing is not a thing done ? An act of man, a deed of man !

 

[DHK]

jerry



Thats True, if one's Justification was made known to them by faith , then it was not of works. But that would mean that one is Justified before they have it revealed to them by Faith.

However, if you take Faith to be a condition that one must perform to get saved, then thats works.

You take faith as a condition or duty man must do to get saved, Paul never taught that heresy.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. (have faith)

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God.

Salvation is by faith. Did you throw away the doctrine of sola fide.
Paul did teach it. But faith is not a work.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Thats True, if one's Justification was made known to them by faith , then it was not of works.

The way how a person is justified before God is by preaching and not by faith. The truths of justification are received by "faith."

But that would mean that one is Justified before they have it revealed to them by Faith.

You make no sense. A person hears the gospel and he either believes it or he doesn't. And here is what Paul says in regard to how a person is justified before God:

Paul clearly tells us that if it is of grace then it is not of "works":

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).

Then Paul tells us in no uncertain terms that it is not "works" that justifies a man but instead his "faith":

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Ro.4:4).

It is those who do "not work" but instead "believe" who are justified.

That means that Paul did not consider "faith" a "work."

 

[savedbymercy]

jerry

The way how a person is justified before God is by preaching and not by faith.

Huh, you sound mixed up !

You make no sense. A person hears the gospel and he either believes it or he doesn't.

Thats True, a lost man cannot believe it 2 Cor 4:3

3But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them

Only a Justified saved man can believe the Gospel ! Now if you believe a man gets saved when he believes, then that is salvation by works, something man does. Believing is an act of man. It is the keeping of an commandment 1 Jn 3:23

23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Keeping a commandment is a work, a deed of man !

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

But faith is not a work.

It is. Believing is something man does. The definition of work according to the biblical word works : it is the greek word ergon :

business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

To believe is to do something ! Acts 16:30

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

That word do means:

to do

a) to act rightly, do well

1) to carry out, to execute

to perform

So if you teach that a person gets saved by believing, then you teach that one is saved by his act, or deed or performance, that's a work according to scripture !

 

[savedbymercy]

Our Covenant Head was Chosen or Elected !



The bible teaches Election even of the One who died for His Seed Isa 53:10

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

The Lord Jesus Christ . Scripture records the Father saying Isa 42:1

1Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Peter writes as well 1 Pet 2:4,6

To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

Christ was Chosen of God to be the Head of the Church, His Body ! So now, if the Head is Chosen, so must be His Members, His Body ! Unless the Father chose a bodiless Head ! And because of this, He had to be the Saviour of the Body Eph 5:23


For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body.

He is the Chosen foundation stone, and Those He is Saviour, His Body, are the chosen stones 1 Pet 2:5

Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

A Chosen Priesthood at that 1 Pet 2:9

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

 

[savedbymercy]

Election is taught by the Type the Nation of Israel Isa 65:9

9And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

Deut 7:6-8

6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

8But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

This language is fitting to Spiritual Israel comprised of both jews and gentiles 1 Pet 2:9

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

 

[Jedi Knight]

>The Seed of Abraham, no matter what race or geographical location, are the Chosen or Elect of God.

Anyone with any Jewish blood is "grandfathered" into Heaven! I personally hope so. <G>

Jesus speaking to the Jews said "I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.” John 8:24 Grandfathered in to Heaven won't happen.

 

[savedbymercy]

Elect according to the Foreknowledge of God the Father !



1 Pet 1:1-2

1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

The Elect according to the Foreknowledge of God the Father; Now exactly what does that mean ? I am quite aware what some of the opposer's of Truth claim, that it means the Father's foreseeing those who will make wise decisions with their freewill, thereby making themselves the Elect, but all such claims are nothing but lies. The Foreknowledge of God the Father is to include a Foreunion that the Father possessed with the Elect prior to and foundational to their being given into a Eternal Union with the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus said in His Mediatoral Prayer Jn 17:6

6I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine[Thine Own] they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Heb 2:13

13And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

They had such a High value in the Heart of the Father, that He entrusted them to the Son for their preservation and safekeeping Jude 1:1, and we see also the High Esteem the Father had to His Son, to entrust Him with such a Treasure as His Elect Children. Now let us understand how there was a Foreknowledge or Foreunion of The Father with His very own Elect [Lk 18:7]

The greek word for foreknowledge is prognōsis and means:


foreknowledge

2) forethought, pre-arrangement

Its from the greek word proginōskō which means:


to have knowledge before hand

2) to foreknow

a) of those whom God elected to salvation

3) to predestinate

To have knowledge beforehand or to know beforehand. The word ginōskō means:


to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel

a) to become known

2) to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of

a) to understand

b) to know

3) Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse between a man and a woman

4) to become acquainted with, to know

This word denotes intimacy and Union, the Union of Intimacy.

Remember when scripture said that Adam knew his wife Gen 4:1

Also with Joseph and Mary Matt 1:25

24Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

25And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

That word knew is same word ginōskō

The NIV Translates Matt 1:25

But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

The Elect had a foreunion with the Father which led to the Father giving them as seed to His Son ! Ps 47:4

He shall choose our inheritance for us, the excellency of Jacob whom he loved. Selah.

The Father chose the Inheritance for His Son !