thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Apparently, there aren't 5,000 of the "girls" to return to her current church, hm? :smilewinkgrin:
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Historic Riverside Church recommends first woman as senior minister
- Thread starter Crabtownboy
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Zaac
Well-Known Member
I kinda figured there was that type of angle attached to this. God is gonna get awfully tired of the so called "church" brandishing sin in his face and then purporting to be doing His work.
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Amy is not only a great preacher, she is a great person and administrator. I have been fortunate to have heard her preach on several occasions. Amy is a graduate of Baylor University, the International Baptist Theological Seminary and Wesley Theological Seminary.
Now if they can just quote ANY NT passage that states that a woman can be the senior pastor/head spiritual authority for a local church!
For wisdom of man is NOTHING compared with the wisdom of God!
Guess jesus and his Apostles ALL missed the "progressive wing" of early Christianity!
Jesus didn't, but the disciples and followers did. They never really understood Jesus. He was always surprising them.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
If we are to trust Scripture and I know that you do, God's word is clear on who meets the qualifications of overseer. Women do not.
Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full[a] respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap. 1 Tim. 3:1-7
God does not author confusion. Men do. That God of order has not placed the wife in submission to her husband at their house to just turn around and allow for the wife to rule over her husband in HIS house.
God ALWAYS has an order and He's not putting the family order at risk. It's His plan for producing Godly offspring.:flower:
Crabtownboy has called me a "bigot" for having the same biblical stance.
I do not believe it is as straight forward as many would lead us to believe. I assume you are going to quote Paul to me. However remember that Paul does not say that everything he wrote is from God. In fact there are passages where he says "this is not from God, it is my opinion." There are many places where Paul does not say if what he is saying is from God and so it can only be reasoned that, again, he is giving his opinion.
Did you notice that this woman took a dying church and brought it back to life?
I believe if Paul were alive today he would support women in ministry. I cannot prove it, not can anyone disprove this.
Blessings.
Jesus was much more progressive than the disciples, Paul or most early Christians. We are still trying to catch up to where Jesus was during his ministry on earth.
You can always tell a liberal. They do not believe all of the word of God.
Oh, Rev, I believe the word of God. I simply do not believe your preciousness interpretations.
So you are saying that we can't trust anything Paul wrote? How about Peter? Can we trust Peter? John? Or is it only Jesus' words we trust? Maybe we can't trust those because it wasn't Jesus who wrote them but some guys who say that Jesus said them but how do we know for sure?
Paul would NOT support her in ministry and the verses have been shown to prove it - but you decide that those verses are not applicable and only Paul's opinion. That's OK. The key that we see is that she built up her church on disobedience to God's Word. Yes, she is a woman leading the church - a church that allows practicing homosexuals in leadership. But then again, that was Paul speaking about homosexuality and I guess that was his opinion as well.
I am saying there are times Paul said "This is from God" and I believe it was. There are times Paul says "This is not God speaking" and I believe he is speaking his own opinion and not for God. There are many times he does not say it is from God nor from him. I believe if he believe those words were directly from God he would have said so. So in those instances I believe he is speaking his own opinion and we must take them as opinion within the culture he lived in. Basically women had no status and because he lived then that was his opinion, though if you read Paul in chronological order you will see him modifying his thinking about women. Paul does not condemn slavery and I believe again he is speaking his opinion, not God's. Thus I believe Paul would condemn slavery if he were alive today and would approve of women in ministry.
You cannot show any verse where Paul says all his writings are directly from God. You and I can show he did not believe all his words were from God.
Watch out you are coming very close to slander in your statement if in fact you have not already stepped over the line.
Thousand Hills
Active Member
Bingo :thumbs:
Reminds me of Genesis 3:1
Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made.
He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?”
I'd like to know where Paul insinuated his words were untrustworthy.
The verbal, plenary inspiration of the whole Bible is one of the fundamentals. However, I don't think all its human authors always knew they were writing God's word as they wrote. Nor do I think it matters much, as long as the Holy Spirit was superintending (as I believe he was, throughout.)
He didn't say they were untrustworthy, but he did say several places, This is my opinion, not directly from God. Thus, you have to consider the time, place, situation and culture that Paul both lived in and was addressing.
To consider this honestly is very troublesome to many, especially fundamentalists. It does not bother me at all. It only shows that Paul was being very honest. There are people who go to great lengths to try to explain why Paul saying that what he is writing is his opinion is really directly from God. However that is not being honest.
I cut your quote, but this is already plenty. It is only I Corinthians 7 that Paul makes a separation of this type. What he said when it was "speak I, not Lord," it was various rules about marrying and remarrying. But when he specifically said it was "...not I, but the Lord," it was: "A wife must not separate from her husband." So I just want to know--- since Paul said plainly it was from the Lord and not from himself, then a wife must not separate from her husband for any reason? [Let's just see if you really believe that part about it being from God when Paul says so, or whether anything he wrote is up for reconsideration.]
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
If I were still a betting man ...
... oh, never mind. :laugh:
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