Historical usage of Words reveals the Contextual Meaning

[37818]

In summary, "huiothesia" is used by Paul to refer to the bestowal of the benefits of being children of God including our future bodily redemption.

Your view, as I understand it, is the common understanding of the adoption.

I am persuaded, it is only the post resurrection of the saints, per Romans 8:23 and 1 John 3:2.

 

[Van]

Your view, as I understand it, is the common understanding of the adoption.

I am persuaded, it is only the post resurrection of the saints, per Romans 8:23 and 1 John 3:2.

Yes 1 John 3:1-2 are on point, thanks!

 

[SavedByGrace]

False teachers attack truth by redefining the meaning of words. Many times in scripture the statement is made that salvation is "through faith." Often the Greek preposition "dia" which means "by means of" or "by reason of" when used to indicate instrumentality, is nullified by a non-literal corruption rather than literal interpretation.

If individuals were chosen for salvation unconditionally, then salvation would not be "through faith."

Thus when you see "through faith" (or by faith) some non-literal expositors claim the meaning is by reason of the gifted and instilled faith due to election before creation via irresistible grace.

However that gross addition to scripture, based purely on the speculation of people, is not how scripture actually reads.

And this repeated rewriting of scripture violates at least two Baptist distinctives, in that the view does not adhere to a literal interpretation, and that individual soul liberty to believe or not in Christ is denied.

Here are some of the verses that liberals rewrite via interpretation:
Romans 3:25
Galatians 3:14
Galatians 3:26
Ephesians 2:8
Colossians 2:12

Romans 3:25 NASB1995
whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;

God displayed Christ, high and lifted up on the Cross, as the means of salvation because of His life blood sacrifice. The means of obtaining that salvation is by reason of our faith in Christ, if credited by God as righteousness. Thus Christ provides the means of salvation through (dia) faith. Since faith is utilized in obtaining salvation, our faith must pre-exist our salvation, rather than the bogus rewrite that our faith is instilled after salvation.

Galatians 3:14 (NASB)
in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

First this verse says in order that we gain entry into Christ, that entry is "through or by reason of" faith. Next, entry, whether of a Jew or Gentile, results in receiving the Holy Spirit, for we are "sealed" in Christ with the Holy Spirit, as a pledge to our future bodily redemption. And finally, this blessing was promised to Abraham and his descendants. We become a descendant of Abraham through faith.

Galatians 3:26
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

How did we become children of God? Through or by reason of faith in Christ Jesus.

Once again non-literal interpreters would rewrite the verse to say we became children of God and then were given faith. Not how it reads...

Ephesians 2 :8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this salvation not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Once again we are saved by means of God crediting our faith in Christ as righteousness, thus our faith is utilized by God in bestowing salvation upon those of His choosing.

Colossians 2:12
having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Finally we see not only that our salvation we through or based on God crediting our faith as righteousness, but that at least a part of our faith was that God raised Christ from the dead, a "working of God."

For starters, the Greek preposition "διά", originally in its root, means, "two, between", and "by the help or working of", "with one another", etc

Secondly, there are two "cases" where this preposition is used, either with the genitive, or the accusative.

Thirdly, there are instances where it is used in the genitive, where the "normal" use is "instrument", but the context in the Bible shows, that it is actually "origin".

Fourthly, there are also cases in the Bible, where this preposition is used in "cooperation", as in "working together"

you have oversimplified the preposition in the OP for the purpose of trying to make your points!

 

[Van]

For starters, the Greek preposition "διά", originally in its root, means, "two, between", and "by the help or working of", "with one another", etc

Secondly, there are two "cases" where this preposition is used, either with the genitive, or the accusative.

Thirdly, there are instances where it is used in the genitive, where the "normal" use is "instrument", but the context in the Bible shows, that it is actually "origin".

Fourthly, there are also cases in the Bible, where this preposition is used in "cooperation", as in "working together"

you have oversimplified the preposition in the OP for the purpose of trying to make your points!

First you agree, dia is used to show instrumentality, but say I oversimplified to make my point. I simply provided the information germane to my point, and skipped the other non-relevant stuff.

Bottom line, you seem to agree we were saved through faith, meaning our faith was utilized to accomplish our election for salvation, as per 2 Thessalonians 2:13. If so, I agree.

 

[SavedByGrace]

First you agree, dia is used to show instrumentality, but say I oversimplified to make my point. I simply provided the information germane to my point, and skipped the other non-relevant stuff.

Bottom line, you seem to agree we were saved through faith, meaning our faith was utilized to accomplish our election for salvation, as per 2 Thessalonians 2:13. If so, I agree.

your OP has failed on the most important factor of our "faith", which the Bible clearly states "comes from the hearing of the Word of God" (Romans 10:17), which is the product of our hearing of the Gospel Message of Repentance and Faith, as is also clear from Peter's sermon in Acts chapter 2

Sinners are saved BY the Preaching of the True Gospel, which is worked on their hearts by the Holy Spirit in conviction, and their obeying His Work in them. Saving Faith does not "come from within us".

The verse that you quote from the KJV, is not what the Apostle Paul wrote, and has been changed

As Versions like the ESV, "But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth", are indeed the correct

Paul is referring to the FIRST CONVERTS, as he says in 1 Cor. 15:20, 23; 16:15; Rom. 8:23; 16:5, etc.

 

[Van]

your OP has failed on the most important factor of our "faith", which the Bible clearly states "comes from the hearing of the Word of God" (Romans 10:17), which is the product of our hearing of the Gospel Message of Repentance and Faith, as is also clear from Peter's sermon in Acts chapter 2

Sinners are saved BY the Preaching of the True Gospel, which is worked on their hearts by the Holy Spirit in conviction, and their obeying His Work in them. Saving Faith does not "come from within us".

The verse that you quote from the KJV, is not what the Apostle Paul wrote, and has been changed

As Versions like the ESV, "But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth", are indeed the correct

Paul is referring to the FIRST CONVERTS, as he says in 1 Cor. 15:20, 23; 16:15; Rom. 8:23; 16:5, etc.

Your post demonstrates failure to accept scripture as written.

Faith does not "come" from within us, the gospel message must be revealed to us by God's gracious revelation.

The claim our heart must be supernaturally altered to put our faith in Christ is complete fiction, without a shred of support in scripture.

Whether the actual verse reads "as first fruits" or "from the beginning" is irrelevant, the meaning of the verse is unchanged.

However, your choice (ESV) changed the sentence structure, a noun (salvation) into a verb (saved) changes the message.
And what did this agenda driven alteration accomplish. In Paul's sentence structure, "through" describes the instrumentality used in the God's choice for salvation (or choice as first fruits). In the corrupted translation, "through" describes the instrumentality used in being saved.

The the Greek word (rendered first fruits) usually refers to the initial blessing brought by God, such as they are bestowed from the beginning. For example, Christ, not his initial converts, is said to be the "first fruits."

 

[Van]

Here is what the deniers of "through faith" claim:

You do not enter a room "through" the door, but rather you materialize within a room without a door, and then a door is installed (instilled) in the room. I kid you not.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Your post demonstrates failure to accept scripture as written.

Faith does not "come" from within us, the gospel message must be revealed to us by God's gracious revelation.

The claim our heart must be supernaturally altered to put our faith in Christ is complete fiction, without a shred of support in scripture.

Whether the actual verse reads "as first fruits" or "from the beginning" is irrelevant, the meaning of the verse is unchanged.

However, your choice (ESV) changed the sentence structure, a noun (salvation) into a verb (saved) changes the message.
And what did this agenda driven alteration accomplish. In Paul's sentence structure, "through" describes the instrumentality used in the God's choice for salvation (or choice as first fruits). In the corrupted translation, "through" describes the instrumentality used in being saved.

The the Greek word (rendered first fruits) usually refers to the initial blessing brought by God, such as they are bestowed from the beginning. For example, Christ, not his initial converts, is said to be the "first fruits."

Van, PLEASE stop posting NONSENSE about Greek grammar, as it is clear that you do NOT understand what you say!!!

 

[Van]

Van, PLEASE stop posting NONSENSE about Greek grammar, as it is clear that you do NOT understand what you say!!!

LOL, Calvinists claim their opponents do not understand as often as the godless left plays the race card.

Did his post deny the ESV version of 2 Thessalonians 2:13 changed a noun into a verb? Nope, he just bellowed a smoke screen.

 

[SavedByGrace]

LOL, Calvinists claim their opponents do not understand as often as the godless left plays the race card.

Did his post deny the ESV version of 2 Thessalonians 2:13 changed a noun into a verb? Nope, he just bellowed a smoke screen.

can you show the "error" of the ESV in 2 Thessalonians 2:13?

 

[Van]

can you show the "error" of the ESV in 2 Thessalonians 2:13?

On and on with subject change questions implying he does not know "salvation" is a noun found in the Greek text of 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and saved is a verb not found in that text. I kid you not!!

All this to hide the truth 2 Thessalonians 2:13 teaches conditional election for salvation!

 

[SavedByGrace]

On and on with subject change questions implying he does not know "salvation" is a noun found in the Greek text of 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and saved is a verb not found in that text. I kid you not!!

can you show WHERE is the grammatical "error" in the ESV reading???

 

[Van]

can you show WHERE is the grammatical "error" in the ESV reading???

Changing a noun into a verb! That is a grammar error.

 

[Van]

Right = He saved me.
Wrong = He salvation me.

Or

Right He chose me for salvation
Wrong He chose me for saved

Or

Right He chose me for salvation
Wrong He chose me for saved

 

[SavedByGrace]

Changing a noun into a verb! That is a grammar error.

The Greek NOUN, σωτηρία, is translated as SAVED in the KJV, in Luke 1:71; Romans 10:1

The root meaning is "deliverance, preservation", and is also used for "means of safety, security" etc.

The VERB σῴζω, is also used in the SAME SENSE!

 

[SavedByGrace]

There are "rules" in Greek grammar, as there are in all languages in the world. However, these are also "exceptions" to these "rules".

One good example is found in John 20:28, where Thomas says to Jesus Christ, "Ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου" (my Lord and my God). The case in the Greek is nominative, which some assume as something that Thomas was "surprised" by, and his language is an "astonishment". However, we read in the immediate verse, "εἶπεν αὐτῷ" (said to Him), that is to Jesus Christ. Here we now have what is known as in Greek grammar, where the nominative is taken as "vocative", as in direct address. This is not uncommon in Koine Greek

We have the exact same use in Hebrews 1:8, "Ὁ θρόνος σου, ὁ θεός" (Your Throne O God), where the nominative form, is taken as vocative. This is also clear from the words, "πρὸς δὲ τὸν υἱόν", "but to the Son", which is also direct address by the Father.

The Hebrew scholar, Aquila, who published a Greek Version of the Old Testament, in the middle of the 2nd century A.D., translates the Hebrew, by the Greek, “ο θρονος σου θεε”, in Psalm 45:6, which is undoubtedly the vocative, “Your throne, O God”. (Fredrick Field, Origen Hexapla, vol. II, pp. 162-163). Which shows that the Hebrew is clearly understood as having the meaning of the vocative.

 

[Van]

In post #35, the argument is if another translation mistranslates the same word, then two wrongs make a right, and therefore ESV mistranslation of 2 Thessalonians 2:13 is just dandy. I kid you not.

In post #36, the use of the nominative instead of the vocative is offered to justify the translators changing nouns to verbs to hide conditional election for salvation. As someone is fond of posting, that does not follow.

 

[SavedByGrace]

In post #35, the argument is if another translation mistranslates the same word, then two wrongs make a right, and therefore ESV mistranslation of 2 Thessalonians 2:13 is just dandy. I kid you not.

In post #36, the use of the nominative instead of the vocative is offered to justify the translators changing nouns to verbs to hide conditional election for salvation. As someone is fond of posting, that does not follow.

Gosh! Van, WHEN will you ever learn that your "reasoning" on Greek grammar is ZERO!

 

[Van]

Gosh! Van, WHEN will you ever learn that your "reasoning" on Greek grammar is ZERO!

Yet another "taint so" post to hide truth, bible study requires meditating on the intended meaning given the grammar and historical word meaning, contextually considered. (Acts 17:17 and 18:4) See also:
How can I meditate on God’s Word? | GotQuestions.org

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yet another "taint so" post to hide truth, bible study requires meditating on the intended meaning given the grammar and historical word meaning, contextually considered. (Acts 17:17 and 18:4) See also:
How can I meditate on God’s Word? | GotQuestions.org