Where reason vacates, fear flees [Waar rede sal ontruim, slaan vrees op die vlug.]
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Historicity of the change of the Sabbath Commandment vs Sola Scriptura
- Thread starter BobRyan
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Where reason vacates, fear flees [Waar rede sal ontruim, slaan vrees op die vlug.]
Who could not notice he 'quoted' Bob Ryan? Only he in whom reason has never settled.
This present series of ‘Sola Scriptura’ SDA rant threads started with one, the bloke known as BobRyan of BaptistBoard fame.
With one foot on the heap of grave sand, the other hip deep under level in the grave already, it is time --- old chap, you shed your Adamic fig leave pride. SDAism isn't going to get you into heaven, but into hell!
You like all of us are confronted with one problem, which is, that Were the Resurrection of Christ on Sunday, all these Christian saints whom you are so liberally quoting like they are frauds, would be justified and just before God (who cares, before SDA!).
Deal with the REAL issue, o fearful!
Genesis 2:2 Thus ... in six days ... the heavens and the earth were completed, and all, their hosts. 2 And / But on The Seventh Day, God on The Seventh Day from [by*] all his work which He had (ever) done, ended His 'work-which He-had-done-in-resting / 'work-which-He-had-done-and-rested. 3 Then God blessed The Seventh Day and sanctified it because He in it rested from all His work which God had made accomplished / finished" ---in and through Jesus Christ in and through that He raised Him from the dead and blessed and sanctified The Seventh Day and on it "finished all his works ... God thus concerning spake ... by the Son in these last days." Hebrews 4:4b.
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I think the act of resurrection surpasses all human acts of worship. If worship was obligated to Sabbath only, Jesus Christ totally broke that rule. Our deliverance from sin happens on his resurrection. This is the crowning truth of our faith where death is conquered.
"If Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain
The entire foundation of worship rests on The True Rest which is Jesus Christ. In the resurrection the entire trinity is involved in a incalculable holiness.
All the worship from every day down the line of our people is finally turned on and in use in the resurrection. The fulfillment of the scripture.
Romans 6
4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
Imagine you a disciple of Jesus find Jesus who has just RISEN on SUNDAY.
Do you fall to your knees? No you tell him wait a week.
Matthew 28
8And they left the tomb quickly with fear and great joy and ran to report it to His disciples. 9And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him. 10Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid; go and take word to My brethren to leave for Galilee, and there they will see Me.”
And so the disciples waited till next Sabbath to tell the brethren to go to galilee? oh no....they did it right away.
In terms on HOLINESS. Nothing on earth was holy. All were dead with Adam, all made alive through Christ.
With right and wrong days aside, Without the holy worship involved with the resurrection it would all mean nothing.
Every Sabbath Jews would worship for a train ticket. On Sunday Jesus' worship brought a train. We are talking past getting a ticket.
Bottom Line: The worship involved in the fulfillment obliterates any chance of the Sabbath holding a candle to Sunday.
If we were eating at a restaurant your focus is on the order the waitress wrote down being more important then the actual meal brought to the table.
"If Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain
The entire foundation of worship rests on The True Rest which is Jesus Christ. In the resurrection the entire trinity is involved in a incalculable holiness.
All the worship from every day down the line of our people is finally turned on and in use in the resurrection. The fulfillment of the scripture.
Romans 6
4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
Imagine you a disciple of Jesus find Jesus who has just RISEN on SUNDAY.
Do you fall to your knees? No you tell him wait a week.
Matthew 28
8And they left the tomb quickly with fear and great joy and ran to report it to His disciples. 9And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him. 10Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid; go and take word to My brethren to leave for Galilee, and there they will see Me.”
And so the disciples waited till next Sabbath to tell the brethren to go to galilee? oh no....they did it right away.
In terms on HOLINESS. Nothing on earth was holy. All were dead with Adam, all made alive through Christ.
With right and wrong days aside, Without the holy worship involved with the resurrection it would all mean nothing.
Every Sabbath Jews would worship for a train ticket. On Sunday Jesus' worship brought a train. We are talking past getting a ticket.
Bottom Line: The worship involved in the fulfillment obliterates any chance of the Sabbath holding a candle to Sunday.
If we were eating at a restaurant your focus is on the order the waitress wrote down being more important then the actual meal brought to the table.
Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
Col 2:17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
Argument over.
This is all your ideas and wisdom. It is easy for you since you are above what is Written. I could have said it myself just as effortless as you. But there are the Scriptures, and they are of higher authority than I could believe I am; and what you have said and I as well could have said were I not under the authority of the Scriptures, just is not Scripture, sorry. It's sheer innovation. In fact, it is mind muck -- your, soul's vomit.
So you are happy with the mess? I mean, what a gastronomic experience!
Wasn't it Paul who said their belly is their god?
Rev the chef --- what a mess!
Tell me p-l-e-a-s-e?!
Where are <<the questions>> you speak of?
And what <<food and drink>>?
<<with regard to...>>?? -- which <<festival or ... new moon or ... Sabbath>>??
Whose prose is this? Certainly original and unassuming, <<Col 2:16 ... Col 2:16>>. Or one might have guessed it's Paul.
So your saying Jesus act of resurrection doesn't surpass all human worship?
You don't believe scripture Gerhard cause if you did you'd believe it when says what is in a Christian is higher then scripture.
You WOULD need a instruction book on loving God. DO you also keep a manual on how to brush your teeth?
Utilyan the Judge has spoken. The Judge sommer at the same time Preacher and Example of Christian virtue.
If you believed Christ's Resurrection you would have believed it "according to the Scriptures". Now I don't care one bit what you do about it; I will care about what you TEACH about it HERE! Which is mug. PURE mug.
MR. Magoo can barely make out which poster said what on this thread. Hows he gonna get the bible right?
2 Corinthians 3
2You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; 3being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
This is your letter. Obviously.
Looks like a masterly drawn up CV. Hey, God, here's your candidate!
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Really? Who was Jesus worshiping when He resurrected Himself?
Jesus was born once.
Jesus died once.
Jesus was resurrected - every 7th day?? -- no... ONCE.
How many times did Jesus say "REMEMBER the seventh day to keep it holy" at Sinai according to Hebrews 8:6-10??
How many times did Jesus say "remember week-day-one and not the seventh day any more"??
The entire foundation of worship according to God is "love for God"
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"
John 4 'Those who worship God must worship Him in spirit and in TRUTH"
1John 5:2-3 "2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. "
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Leo Trese in his book "The Faith Explained" -- commentary on the Baltimore Catechism after Vatican II -
The Faith Explained (an RC commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on Page 242 that
====================begin short summary
changing the Lord's day to Sunday was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name".
page 243
"Nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday. We know of the change only from the tradition of the Church - a fact handed down to us...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many Non-Catholics, who say that they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and Yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"
====================================== begin expanded quote
. (from "The Faith Explained" page 243
"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...
The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...
nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church
================================================
And how does the Bible define the "Solemnity" - the blessed, sanctified and binding obligation of the Sabbath -- in actual scripture.
Gen 2
2 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
Ex 20: 8, 11
8 “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
So how is that the Law of God is up for "edit" for change? For taking one of the Commandments - and "repointing it" so that now "another day" is blessed, sanctified, and made holy??
The Faith Explained (an RC commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on Page 242 that
====================begin short summary
changing the Lord's day to Sunday was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name".
page 243
"Nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday. We know of the change only from the tradition of the Church - a fact handed down to us...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many Non-Catholics, who say that they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and Yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"
====================================== begin expanded quote
. (from "The Faith Explained" page 243
"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...
The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...
nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church
================================================
And how does the Bible define the "Solemnity" - the blessed, sanctified and binding obligation of the Sabbath -- in actual scripture.
Gen 2
2 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
Ex 20: 8, 11
8 “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
So how is that the Law of God is up for "edit" for change? For taking one of the Commandments - and "repointing it" so that now "another day" is blessed, sanctified, and made holy??
Jesus resurrected on the 8th day. Making it the holiest day. Jesus worshipped God almighty in the highest caliber on the resurrection.
Most holy day, Day of Resurrection
2nd most holy day of week? GOOD FRIDAY -- The CROSS
3rd most holy day of week? Holy Thursday -- Last Supper first communion, Eucharist.
4th most holy day of week? I think we can shove Sabbath in here.
Even if we got rid of sunday, Sabbath would have to wait in line for other days that shoved it aside.
Good Friday The Cross is an act of pure worship on Jesus Christ's part. Totally blows away all Sabbath worship combined.
Same goes with Last supper. Jesus Christ made present.
The acts of worship involved in those days blow Sabbath out the water.
Jesus Christ broke your rules.
Reminds me of a video I watched where SDA actually hired a actor dressed him up as a catholic bishop, to state Catholics changed the day of worship.
Your sources are a joke.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
What Bible says that? or are you simply "quoting you"??
The Bible says it was "the first day of the week" -- "week day 1".
Here again -- you quote "you"??
Imagine if you will that the main point of the NT writers of the Gospels is - "Jesus began weekly 7-day-cycle worship of God almighty in the highest caliber on the resurrection" -- yet oddly enough - Jesus never gets around to saying that - and they never get around to writing it??
That is the sort of "better-than-the-Bible because we made it up" argument that worked best in the dark ages.
Here is an example of what you will NOT find in the Bible
Most holy day, Day of Resurrection
2nd most holy day of week? GOOD FRIDAY -- The CROSS
3rd most holy day of week? Holy Thursday -- Last Supper first communion, Eucharist.
Here is an example of what you WILL find in the Bible - and written "in stone"
"Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy... the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD Thy God" Ex 20
Christ -- the maker of the rules.
RCC the breaker of the rules - hence the protesting-Catholics and their reformation efforts.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Leo Trese in his book "The Faith Explained" -- commentary on the Baltimore Catechism after Vatican II -
The Faith Explained (an RC commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on Page 242 that
====================begin short summary
changing the Lord's day to Sunday was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name".
page 243
"Nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday. We know of the change only from the tradition of the Church - a fact handed down to us...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many Non-Catholics, who say that they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and Yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"
====================================== begin expanded quote
. (from "The Faith Explained" page 243
"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...
The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...
nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church
================================================
And how does the Bible define the "Solemnity" - the blessed, sanctified and binding obligation of the Sabbath -- in actual scripture.
Gen 2
2 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
Ex 20: 8, 11
8 “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
So how is that the Law of God is up for "edit" for change? For taking one of the Commandments - and "repointing it" so that now "another day" is blessed, sanctified, and made holy??
===================================================
My sources in this case are -- the Bible and the Papal-imprimatur-approved -- "The faith Explained"
I know why some Catholics would say that about the Bible -- but why do you say it also about your own RCC commentary on the Baltimore Catechism?
The Faith Explained (an RC commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on Page 242 that
====================begin short summary
changing the Lord's day to Sunday was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name".
page 243
"Nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday. We know of the change only from the tradition of the Church - a fact handed down to us...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many Non-Catholics, who say that they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and Yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"
====================================== begin expanded quote
. (from "The Faith Explained" page 243
"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...
The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...
nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church
================================================
And how does the Bible define the "Solemnity" - the blessed, sanctified and binding obligation of the Sabbath -- in actual scripture.
Gen 2
2 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
Ex 20: 8, 11
8 “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
So how is that the Law of God is up for "edit" for change? For taking one of the Commandments - and "repointing it" so that now "another day" is blessed, sanctified, and made holy??
===================================================
My sources in this case are -- the Bible and the Papal-imprimatur-approved -- "The faith Explained"
I know why some Catholics would say that about the Bible -- but why do you say it also about your own RCC commentary on the Baltimore Catechism?
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