History of the Jews

[Salty]

From 3760 - BC thru 2020 AD

 

[Aaron]

Actually, the OT is church history.

 

[360watt]

Beginning of the church...

If you say that the church is every believer.. the supposed 'big C' Church.. then you run into problems with timing of different groups.

Israel in the wilderness were called a church, but weren't the NT local church.

Jesus and His disciples did all the work of the first NT church.

At Pentecost.. the church at Jerusalem was empowered. They were added to with new members..alot of members.. but the NT church began with Jesus and His disciples.

The body of Christ IS the church... which church? Local and visible or the non existent, mythical, 'universal, spiritual ' church?

It can't be both.

We can think of all believers as a body. That's a kind of acceptable grammar..but it's not how the Bible defines the body of Christ.

 

[Ascetic X]

Beginning of the church...

If you say that the church is every believer.. the supposed 'big C' Church.. then you run into problems with timing of different groups.

Israel in the wilderness were called a church, but weren't the NT local church.

Jesus and His disciples did all the work of the first NT church.

At Pentecost.. the church at Jerusalem was empowered. They were added to with new members..alot of members.. but the NT church began with Jesus and His disciples.

The body of Christ IS the church... which church? Local and visible or the non existent, mythical, 'universal, spiritual ' church?

It can't be both.

We can think of all believers as a body. That's a kind of acceptable grammar..but it's not how the Bible defines the body of Christ.

But it is both. To say church only means a local church, then which one? Methodist? Lutheran? Independent? Baptist? Orthodox? Catholic? Assembly of God? Nazarene?

Why this enthrallment with a “local church”? A local church is just one instance of the universal ekklesia or called out assembly, the totality of true believers in Jesus, the body of Christ.

Pastors who want to exalt themselves speak of the local church, theirs in particular, as being the only church.

But Paul spoke of various churches in homes and the book of Revelation describes the church in different cities.

It is biblically correct to refer to either a local assembly or the entire collection of believers living today, or throughout history, as church.

We can say that God watches over the church. That means a lot more than just one individual church building and congregation. Church in this case means the whole body of Christ.

One individual local church is not the complete body of Christ.


Colossians 1:18

And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.



1 Timothy 3

14 These things I write to you, though I hope to come to you shortly;

15 but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

 

[360watt]

But it is both. To say church only means a local church, then which one? Methodist? Lutheran? Independent? Baptist? Orthodox? Catholic? Assembly of God? Nazarene?

Why this enthrallment with a “local church”? A local church is just one instance of the universal ekklesia or called out assembly, the totality of true believers in Jesus, the body of Christ.

Pastors who want to exalt themselves speak of the local church, theirs in particular, as being the only church.

But Paul spoke of various churches in homes and the book of Revelation describes the church in different cities.

It is biblically correct to refer to either a local assembly or the entire collection of believers living today, or throughout history, as church.

We can say that God watches over the church. That means a lot more than just one individual church building and congregation. Church in this case means the whole body of Christ.

One individual local church is not the complete body of Christ.


Colossians 1:18

And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.



1 Timothy 3

14 These things I write to you, though I hope to come to you shortly;

15 but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

This 1st timothy passage referring to the local church!

 

[Ascetic X]

This 1st timothy passage referring to the local church!

That is why I said “church” can mean both a local church and the universal body of all believers, as Colossians 1:18 refers to.

 

[360watt]

That is why I said “church” can mean both a local church and the universal body of all believers, as Colossians 1:18 refers to.

Baptist History Preservation | I am convinced by a lengthy study of the Bible that there is not yet a "universal church" in existence | Facebook

I am convinced by a lengthy study of the Bible that there is not yet a "universal church" in existence. There will be when all believers are gathered around the throne of our Lord in Heaven and time...

www.facebook.com

 

[Ascetic X]

Baptist History Preservation | I am convinced by a lengthy study of the Bible that there is not yet a "universal church" in existence | Facebook

I am convinced by a lengthy study of the Bible that there is not yet a "universal church" in existence. There will be when all believers are gathered around the throne of our Lord in Heaven and time...

www.facebook.com

Your linked article contains obvious errors.

QOUTE

Every time there is a mention of "a church or the church" in the NT it is always referring to the church being addressed by the title of the book or letter, or by its physical location. Every other usage is "churches", "church of", "church at".

END QUOTE

Sometimes “church” refers to the total body of Christ, not a specific local church.

Acts 20:28

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

What was purchased with His own blood? A local assembly? No. The entire body of Christ, the universal church of all saved people throughout history.


Colossians 1:18

And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

 

[360watt]

Your linked article contains obvious errors.

QOUTE

Every time there is a mention of "a church or the church" in the NT it is always referring to the church being addressed by the title of the book or letter, or by its physical location. Every other usage is "churches", "church of", "church at".

END QUOTE

Sometimes “church” refers to the total body of Christ, not a specific local church.

Acts 20:28

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

What was purchased with His own blood? A local assembly? No. The entire body of Christ, the universal church of all saved people throughout history.


Colossians 1:18

And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

Singular standing for plural.

'The horse is a magnificent animal '

That's not one universal horse, that's all horses plural counted as one.

Same goes for 'the bar', 'the cat', 'the dog' Etc..

So with 'the church'..in scripture.. or 'the body'.. Singular standing for plural.

'There is one body' in Ephesians 4.. that doesn't mean there aren't other bodies.. it's meaning the body at Ephesus. Also, multiple bodies is not a problem, because we aren't talking about Jesus's literal body..but body as in assembly/congregation. So there can be multiple.

1 Co 12... the body here is defined as the body at Corinth. 'Ye are the body of Christ ' from Paul to the Corinthians.

 

[Ascetic X]

Singular standing for plural.

'The horse is a magnificent animal '

That's not one universal horse, that's all horses plural counted as one.

Same goes for 'the bar', 'the cat', 'the dog' Etc..

So with 'the church'..in scripture.. or 'the body'.. Singular standing for plural.

'There is one body' in Ephesians 4.. that doesn't mean there aren't other bodies.. it's meaning the body at Ephesus. Also, multiple bodies is not a problem, because we aren't talking about Jesus's literal body..but body as in assembly/congregation. So there can be multiple.

1 Co 12... the body here is defined as the body at Corinth. 'Ye are the body of Christ ' from Paul to the Corinthians.

The one body in Ephesians 4 does not mean only the assembly of believers in Ephesus, it means all believers everywhere making up the total body of Christ.

Churches were assemblies in homes. Homes were tiny, often just two rooms. Only about 12 individuals could meet in any home church assembly. But there were typically thousands of believers in a city, so “the church at Ephesus” could not mean one local church, for Ephesus had many local home church assemblies. It meant all the believers in various home assemblies in Ephesus.

The body of Christ is not one local church, it is the universal collection of all saved people.

I Corinthians 12

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[360watt]

The one body in Ephesians 4 does not mean only the assembly of believers in Ephesus, it means all believers everywhere making up the total body of Christ.

Churches were assemblies in homes. Homes were tiny, often just two rooms. Only about 12 individuals could meet in any home church assembly. But there were typically thousands of believers in a city, so “the church at Ephesus” could not mean one local church, for Ephesus had many local home church assemblies. It meant all the believers in various home assemblies in Ephesus.

The body of Christ is not one local church, it is the universal collection of all saved people.

I Corinthians 12

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Maybe the Ephesus situation would be the one local church meeting in different houses.

The New Testament Church: local, organized, visible, independent and complete - Tribune.org

by Noel Smith — Founding Editors (1950-1974) of the Baptist Bible Tribune From a series of articles published in 1955 I have emphasized in previous articles that the Greek word ekklesia was translated church instead of assembly by the King James revisers, but from here on out, in the interest of...

www.tribune.org

 

[Ascetic X]

Maybe the Ephesus situation would be the one local church meeting in different houses.

The New Testament Church: local, organized, visible, independent and complete - Tribune.org

by Noel Smith — Founding Editors (1950-1974) of the Baptist Bible Tribune From a series of articles published in 1955 I have emphasized in previous articles that the Greek word ekklesia was translated church instead of assembly by the King James revisers, but from here on out, in the interest of...

www.tribune.org

Each house that was hosting meetings of Christian believers was a church assembly in Ephesus.

This article you link to is also full of errors.

In the New Testament, we have the church, first of all as a universal institution. We have the church in abstract, as in Matthew 16:18 and Ephesians 5:22.

After stating this, he then rambles on, contradicting it, saying there is no church as one body of Christ, there is only churches, meaning local assemblies. But both exist.

The man is violent, too. He wants to physically assault those who disagree with him.

But when I hear these brethren talking about belonging to “the true, invisible, universal church,” I want to kick them on the shin.

 

[360watt]

Each house that was hosting meetings of Christian believers was a church assembly in Ephesus.

This article you link to is also full of errors.



After stating this, he then rambles on, contradicting it, saying there is no church as one body of Christ, there is only churches, meaning local assemblies. But both exist.

The man is violent, too. He wants to physically assault those who disagree with him.

I think his sense of universal church is the singular standing for plural. 'The church' meaning 'all churches'. And the end of church of all believers in heaven..which is a church in prospect.

Both examples are visible and local. Of one type of church..singular standing for plural or of the end church, local and visible..in heaven.