Originally posted by blackbird:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Marcia:
All believers have the HS has the apostles did. The difference might be that they received the indwelling of the HS at Pentecost, at the same time.
However, anyone who believes in Christ received the HS.
Ditto Marcia here!!
Bro. David </font>[/QUOTE]This is today, a very common belief among Baptist lay persons, but it radically contradicts explicit statements in Scriptures. Here are two examples:
Acts 8:14. Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John,
15. who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
16. For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
17. Then they
began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.
Acts 19:1. It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples.
2. He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they
said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
3. And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
4. Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
5. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they
began speaking with tongues and prophesying.
Acts 19:1. It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples.
2. He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they
said/ to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
3. And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
4. Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
5. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began/ speaking with tongues and prophesying.
And, since this belief radically contradicts explicit statements in Scriptures, we would expect to find throughout the history of the church examples where other believers did not receive the Holy Spirit upon belief, but subsequent to belief, and sometimes not for a substantial period of time—or not at all. And that is exactly what we do find! For example, studies of the testimonies of atheists who earlier in their lives were believers and very active in the Christian faith suggest very strongly that a large portion of these believers had not received the Holy Spirit at any time in their life.
As I wrote in my earlier post in this thread, the accounts in the New Testament of the reception of the Holy Spirit and of being filled with the Holy Spirit are so varied that it is impossible glean from them any definitive doctrine regarding this matter. Theologians in the Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Lutheran, Presbyterian, and Methodists churches have spent countless hours studying and discussing this subject, and it could scarcely be more complex. To the naïve layman, the Scriptures dealing with the reception of the Holy Spirit may pigeonhole very easily and neatly into their personal theological construct, but if they would take the time to study the views of the scholars, they would learn for themselves how very naïve they were. If the interpretation of all the relevant scriptural passages seems very obvious to you, consider that the interpretation of all the relevant scriptural passages also seems very obvious to others whose interpretation is VERY different from yours, and they can’t even begin to imagine how you could possibly be so far off in your understanding.
In the New Testament, the doctrines of belief, water baptism, laying on of hands, reception of the Holy Spirit, and being baptized into/with/by the Holy Spirit are intertwined and there is no set pattern or sequence. And, of course, to study these matters outside of the context of the Old Testament and its teachings on this matter is absolute folly. Men have no business telling God how it is; God does what He wants to do, and when it comes to the gift of the Holy Spirit and the giving of that gift, we see that God is sovereign and does not fit well in a cute little box with a pretty little bow on it.
