Holy Spirit

[awaken]

The first is biblical, the second is not:thumbsup::thumbsup:

So how do we prove this with scriptures? What is the difference in the Spirit within and the Spirit upon?

 

[Iconoclast]

So how do we prove this with scriptures? What is the difference in the Spirit within and the Spirit upon?

Second, constancy: "dwelling" expresses a permanent abode. The Spirit does not affect the regenerate by a transient action only, or come "upon" them occasionally as He did the Prophets of old, when He endowed them for some particular service above the measure of their ordinary ability—but He abides in them by working such effects as are lasting. He comes to the believer not as a Visitor, but as an Inhabitant: He is within us "a well of water springing up into everlasting life" (John 4:14). He lives in the renewed heart, so that by His constant and continual influence He maintains the life of grace in us. By the blessed Spirit Christians are "sealed unto the day of redemption" (Eph. 4:30).

read it all here!
http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Holy_Spirit/index.htm

 

[awaken]

Second, constancy: "dwelling" expresses a permanent abode. The Spirit does not affect the regenerate by a transient action only, or come "upon" them occasionally as He did the Prophets of old, when He endowed them for some particular service above the measure of their ordinary ability—but He abides in them by working such effects as are lasting. He comes to the believer not as a Visitor, but as an Inhabitant: He is within us "a well of water springing up into everlasting life" (John 4:14). He lives in the renewed heart, so that by His constant and continual influence He maintains the life of grace in us. By the blessed Spirit Christians are "sealed unto the day of redemption" (Eph. 4:30).

read it all here!
http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Holy_Spirit/index.htm

I agree with everything you posted. I believe the difference in the OT and the NT is that it was only on a few had HS upon and He would come and go in the OT. In the NT He is here to stay! But the same power/Spirit that came upon the OT is the same power/Spirit that we have today, constant! right?

 

[Bronconagurski]

As Baptist I was taught that when we are saved we get all the Holy Spirit that we are going to get. Others are teaching that there is a second work of the Holy Spirit. So which is it? When I look at scriptures I see both sides!

We do have all the Holy Spirit as far as indwelling. The question is, does the Holy Spirit have all of us? I make a distinction between the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which happens as salavation, and the filling of the Spirit, which means that we are controlled by the Spirit fully. The filling can be repeated. We are told not to quench the Spirit, nor grieve the Spirit. Both of those sins affect the filling. When we quench the Spirit, we resist doing something we are told to do in the scriptures. When we grieve the Spirit, we do something we told not to do in the scriptures. I think that when the disciples were told to wait for the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, they already had been indwelt. What they were waiting on was the power that was to come, the same power that Christ had upon the earth. Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit when he preached with power, and we see the result.

 

[awaken]

We do have all the Holy Spirit as far as indwelling. The question is, does the Holy Spirit have all of us? I make a distinction between the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which happens as salavation, and the filling of the Spirit, which means that we are controlled by the Spirit fully. The filling can be repeated. We are told not to quench the Spirit, nor grieve the Spirit. Both of those sins affect the filling. When we quench the Spirit, we resist doing something we are told to do in the scriptures. When we grieve the Spirit, we do something we told not to do in the scriptures. I think that when the disciples were told to wait for the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, they already had been indwelt. What they were waiting on was the power that was to come, the same power that Christ had upon the earth. Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit when he preached with power, and we see the result.

So today we get all the HS at salvation! But the filling is how much the HS has control of us?

You say that the disciples already had the indwelling HS? So Pentecost would be another work of the HS, right?

 

[Iconoclast]

We do have all the Holy Spirit as far as indwelling. The question is, does the Holy Spirit have all of us? I make a distinction between the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which happens as salavation, and the filling of the Spirit, which means that we are controlled by the Spirit fully. The filling can be repeated. We are told not to quench the Spirit, nor grieve the Spirit. Both of those sins affect the filling. When we quench the Spirit, we resist doing something we are told to do in the scriptures. When we grieve the Spirit, we do something we told not to do in the scriptures. I think that when the disciples were told to wait for the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, they already had been indwelt. What they were waiting on was the power that was to come, the same power that Christ had upon the earth. Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit when he preached with power, and we see the result.

Good Post.....

 

[Yeshua1]

So today we get all the HS at salvation! But the filling is how much the HS has control of us?

You say that the disciples already had the indwelling HS? So Pentecost would be another work of the HS, right?

the Holy Sprit came in his new fashion at pentacost, and the Church was birthed unto the earth... At pentacost, and from all time forward, every believer had the Sprit sealed within them...

ALL christians have Him residing in them, but ALL do NOT have him filling them up...


being filled with the Sprit is the command of paul, NEVER to get indwelt by Him!

Think the pentacostals, as I was once one of them, err in seeing this as being a second distinct act of the Sprit, as they do see Him giving power to witness and live for Jesus...

they need to realise that ALL have that empowering from becoming Spirit filled, not needing a second act of grace, nor any tongues!

 

[awaken]

the Holy Sprit came in his new fashion at pentacost, and the Church was birthed unto the earth... At pentacost, and from all time forward, every believer had the Sprit sealed within them...

ALL christians have Him residing in them, but ALL do NOT have him filling them up...


being filled with the Sprit is the command of paul, NEVER to get indwelt by Him!

Think the pentacostals, as I was once one of them, err in seeing this as being a second distinct act of the Sprit, as they do see Him giving power to witness and live for Jesus...

they need to realise that ALL have that empowering from becoming Spirit filled, not needing a second act of grace, nor any tongues!

Pentacostals are the ones that are challenging me on this one! I am just having a little trouble defending what I was taught.

They say even after Pentecost that people received the HS after believing.
They say the disciples were saved (indwelled) before Pentecost when Jesus breathed on them to receive Him.
Acts 2 is when they were empowered.

Acts In Samaria when Philip preached and they believed and were baptized. Later Peter and John came and laid hands on them and they received the Holy Ghost.

Peter in Acts 10 preached to the Gentiles and they received it all at once.

Acts 19 Paul came across believers in Ephesus that did not have the HS.

Anyway...I had trouble explaining what I was taught after they confronted me with these scriptures.

 

[thomas15]

To me it comes down to several issues, but a big thing is just what is the actual purpose of people "speaking in tongues" or performing other "sign gifts" in a public setting? Do we not have the assurance of salvation in the words of the Bible? Is not the ministry of the Holy Spirit promised to the believer in the Word of God?

And what of the Roman Catholic sightings of Mary and the gifts of the Mass? How are they different from the speaking of tongues? Why are there not 2000 years of written history on the wonder of speaking in tongues? And how does one know real God ordained speaking gifts from the fake?

In Acts ch 2 everyone heard the Spirit approach sounding like a great wind, tongues of fire on the believers and one speaker being heard in many different languages. The gift was in the hearing, not the speaking. Show me an actual Acts ch 2 charasmatic assembly and I will travel far and wide to be there.

 

[awaken]

To me it comes down to several issues, but a big thing is just what is the actual purpose of people "speaking in tongues" or performing other "sign gifts" in a public setting? Do we not have the assurance of salvation in the words of the Bible? Is not the ministry of the Holy Spirit promised to the believer in the Word of God?

And what of the Roman Catholic sightings of Mary and the gifts of the Mass? How are they different from the speaking of tongues? Why are there not 2000 years of written history on the wonder of speaking in tongues? And how does one know real God ordained speaking gifts from the fake?

In Acts ch 2 everyone heard the Spirit approach sounding like a great wind, tongues of fire on the believers and one speaker being heard in many different languages. The gift was in the hearing, not the speaking. Show me an actual Acts ch 2 charasmatic assembly and I will travel far and wide to be there.

I do not think Pentecost can be repeated in the same way can it? Isn't that a one time event?


WHat if we were taught wrong? What if tongues exist and there is a purpose today? Don't we want to know?

 

[thomas15]

I do not think Pentecost can be repeated in the same way can it? Isn't that a one time event?


WHat if we were taught wrong? What if tongues exist and there is a purpose today? Don't we want to know?

Simple, take your Bible off the shelf and study the matter. Our teachers of doctrine will not be standing next to us when we have to give account, we alone will be held accountable.

Ask yourself this question, how many of the righteous believers from Able to the last prophet in the Bible are said to be righteous because they spoke in tongues? Focus on preaching Christ and Him crucified, making disciples in all the nations.

 

[awaken]

Simple, take your Bible off the shelf and study the matter. Our teachers of doctrine will not be standing next to us when we have to give account, we alone will be held accountable.

Ask yourself this question, how many of the righteous believers from Able to the last prophet in the Bible are said to be righteous because they spoke in tongues? Focus on preaching Christ and Him crucified, making disciples in all the nations.

So you believe that the gifts (manifestations)of the Holy Spirit have ceased?

 

[thomas15]

So you believe that the gifts (manifestations)of the Holy Spirit have ceased?

Yes, those gifts/manifestations as mainly defined by the modern tongues movement. We all have gifts to use in our ministry, the Bible clearly speaks of them. But speaking in tongues or being slain in the Spirit, no.

 

[awaken]

Yes, those gifts/manifestations as mainly defined by the modern tongues movement. We all have gifts to use in our ministry, the Bible clearly speaks of them. But speaking in tongues or being slain in the Spirit, no.

Well then... we will disagree on most things concerning the Holy Spirit!
THere are sooo many baptist that have come to realize that this is for today and walking in it!

 

[awaken]

If the Holy Spirit was given on the day of Pentecost...
it is the HS that leads us to Christ..
it is Christ that leads us to the Father...

The Holy Spirit is here today...As Christ was before..and God was leading the Jews.

Today is the dispensation of the Holy Spirit..the church age...

THe Holy Spirit is a person...
The fruits are His character...
The manifestation is what he does!

The work of the Holy Spirit is here today and until Christ returns! He has not left us! So how someone can say this is no longer needed is to deny the power of the Holy Spirit!

 

[thomas15]

Well then... we will disagree on most things concerning the Holy Spirit!

A little harsh don't you think?

THere are sooo many baptist that have come to realize that this is for today and walking in it!

It must be true if you say so!

 

[awaken]

A little harsh don't you think?



It must be true if you say so!

Did not mean to come across harsh...I do not think the Holy Spirit is through and God did not take Him away...that incudes the power of the manifestation of Himself!
Don't take my word for it...ask for you self! Almost 1/4 maybe more of the Baptist speak in tongues in the world today!

 

[thomas15]

Don't take my word for it...

Don't be offended but I'm not taking your word for anything Bible related, unless of course you say something that is Biblical!

 

[awaken]

Don't be offended but I'm not taking your word for anything Bible related, unless of course you say something that is Biblical!

Don't worry, I am not offended easily!:smilewinkgrin:
Funny, I am on several christian forums and this is the one that comes across most judgemental.

No one has shown IN SCRIPTURES where manifestation/power of the Holy Spirit was taken away from the church...

 

[awaken]

Simple, take your Bible off the shelf and study the matter. Our teachers of doctrine will not be standing next to us when we have to give account, we alone will be held accountable.

Ask yourself this question, how many of the righteous believers from Able to the last prophet in the Bible are said to be righteous because they spoke in tongues? Focus on preaching Christ and Him crucified, making disciples in all the nations.

I do not recall saying anyone was righteous by speaking in tongues...

I do not see tongues mention anywhere in scriptures before the day of Pentecost? Wonder why? Out of all the 9 manifestations of the Holy Spirit, you can find all in operation before Pentecost except tongues and interpretation....sounds to me like it might me a church age manifestation.

Mark mentions it in a future referrence in Chapter 16...those that believe will speak with new tongues...