Home Church Ideas

Sounds like you would be better off reading the Bible. It clearly establishes the office of elder/overseer/pastor, and says that the pastor "has charge" in the church. He is to "rule well." He is called "an overseer." So while congregational government is certainly the NT pattern, just as pastoral leadership. If there is not division between clergy and laity, then there are some passages in the Bible that have no explanation, such as Acts 20:28, 1 Tim 3:1ff., etc. These early churches did have leadership, and the NT clearly testifies to that. So if Mace says the things that he does, he is wrong.

Not sure what the first part means, but church is not a spectator sport. Every single member should be involved in the local church. But God clearly reveals the need for pastoral leadership that meets the qualifications that he laid out.

 

For some of us, simply attending services IS being involved. God knows what we can and cannot do. Not everyone is physically able to attend 3 services a week, teach a class, go on visitation, etc. One's level of "involvement" is between them and God.

Somewhere down the line in Christiandom, folks got this idea that the more you do in the church, the more spiritual you are, and those who simply attend are just spectators or bench warmers. I'm not accusing you personally of this, Pastor Larry, just pointing out that we need to be sensitive to the needs of others and not judge them by our own standards of involvement.

 

I wonder if some have bought into the idea that all they need to is attend a service or two and they are "involved." According to Scripture, the Christian life involves much more than attending a service. (And like you, I am saying nothing about you personally.) We are to be making disciples through a variety of mean, and one can't do that if all one does is attend one service.

 

Most Sundays I am a bench warmer. I try to sing, take part in the prayers, listen to the word read and preached.

There is the odd Sunday I get to preach, but not sure I am even up to that anymore. The church is happy just to see me there. I am sure not a few older people are rowing the same boat.

They also serve who ony stand and wait....Milton

Cheers,

Jim

 

This is the statement I was addressing. Being involved in the local church is not the same as being involved in the Christian life.

I have been in churches where there were activities of some sort every single night of the week. We were neglecting our own children and homes because we were so "involved" with the church. It takes wisdom to discern what level of involvement one should have in the church. We were so busy DOING things for God and for the church we neglected to do what was most important, actually spending time WITH God in his word and taking care of our home.

I believe this is why many Christian kids grow up to reject church.

 

I replanted a church where people were so involved in Christian things that they did not even know their neighbors. They thought that if they had all kinds of activities people would come. When I came I shut down almost everything and began to train the people to do ministry. During that time they began to get to know their neighbors and invited them over. Out of that time they began new ministries in the community and stared Bible studies which they led. The went from nearly extinct to thriving because the people prayed for those around them--the church and non-Christians. We had over 90% of the people involved in weekly home Bible studies. That happened because they lost their building and pastor. Today they have more than they ever had. They have land, buildings, and committed people who love God. They know how to make disciples and they are doing it.

 

Early in my Christian life it was a man much like you who taught me to trust God and pray. When I saw his exuberance and excitement about the things of God I asked him if I could meet with him weekly. So we did until I left the city. He loved God and it showed. He exuded Christ. He died in 1995 and there is hardly a day that goes by when I do not think about his impact on me, the church people, and the city where he lived. When he died the city officials were there along with many of the lumber yard employees at the service. The lumber yard shut down for the funeral and remembrance service. The service went on for three hours with person after person talking about how they are in the ministry today and/or walking with God because of him.

He became my employer and taught me construction. He came to me one day and told me I needed to start my own company. I became his finish carpenter. Yet he gave me up and helped me get started. I borrowed his tools that I did not have. I even used one of his vehicles when I needed it.He gave me no excuse to not go out on my own. He even provided me a security blanket just in case I did not make it. We prayed for many a person together when we met. It was a great experience for me to see an older man who was willing to give himself away so that others might gain Christ. There was a time when he tried to help someone and the man stole some of his tools during the night. He had put the man up in a room he had, the man got up, stole some of his tools, and never returned.

We did mission work together and worked together on the job. I was around him all the time. I saw a man who gave most of his income away. When he died he wife was worried she would not have enough money to pay for the funeral. One of the men he built a home for paid the entire funeral costs.

I saw a godly man trust God and do business in a Christlike manner that has impacted me to this day. Today I teach university students in construction management. It all started because a man took an interest in me.

Do not ever think for a minute that you cannot have an impact on someone like myself. I know for myself that you are an example of graciousness and God's grace when you post on BB.

 

I guess my point is that I am not sure this is true. How can one be involved in the christian life without being involved in the church? I don't think the NT makes that dichotomy. I think the individualism of modernity does. In the NT, to be a Christian is to be involved in body life. Read your NT for teaching about individual life. There is very little. It is almost all in the context of the church.

Of course, I always get some heat here when I get involved in these discussions because of my view of the church.

I don't think being involved in the church means being at some formal event every night of the week. We intentionally guard that here.

And I don't think it means ignoring your children (though I think that is much overblown. Most Christians ignore their children for things other than church. I have rarely seen an actual case where church was the culprit. It is more often work, TV, hobbies, extra-curricular sports, etc.) I know parents who will skip church for the family (when the best thing they can do for their family is have them in church under the preaching), but won't leave work early for them. They will miss a day of church on Sunday to take a Friday night-Sunday night vacation, but won't miss a day of work on Friday to take a Thursday night-Saturday night vacation so they can be in church on Sunday. These things show priorities and values.

The truth is that church itself is rarely the culprit. Somehow, I don't buy that the normal church week consisting of 5-6 hours is killing families. When I coach soccer in the fall, I routinely spend fifteen or more hours a week with the players, which is more than double the time they are in church. And that doesn't count the time these kids spend playing video games, watching TV (which isn't family time), etc.

So let's not blame the church. Let's look at some other things.

Again, I have to wonder about the false dichotomy here. Why draw a distinction between doing things for God and the church and spending time with God and our families? I don't buy that for one minute.

I have different view on this, like hypocritical parents who are one way at church and another at home, parents who don't disciple their children, pastors who are more concerned about drawing a crowd and putting on a show than they are about teaching people how to be disciples, and most of all individual depravity. Home churches won't solve any of those things. But that's another thread.

I think a lot of churches are way overprogrammed. We don't need all the programs. We need body life.

 

I think this is another misunderstanding (that I am sure Jim realizes, so I am not addressing him directly). Somehow we have gotten the idea that "church" is what we do on Sundays in a particular place. The reality is that "church" takes places all week long as we pray for other church members, call them, email them, have dinner with them, pray together, encourage them, hold each other accountable, etc. And very little of that takes place during corporate gatherings.

We have this view of church that says if the pastor or some official leader isn't there, it isn't church. I think that is wrong.

 

Discipleship Today magazine each month has a section devoted to ideas for what it calls "Small Groups."

While I doubt that one could always immediately apply every idea that each article presents in their own particular situation, at least it wouldn't hurt to implement some of them.

 

That reminds me of the time a professor asked us to tell the class about the most worshipful time we had. Very few described a time inside of the church building or when any staff were present.

If the public were the only place of worship then the Bible would not say, "When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. "But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you."

 

I knew preachers who plagiarized sermons each week. When does anyone question them each time they preach?

Why did he ask such questions when she stated, "The current weather, my health, and just circumstances are making it so that I can only go to my new church once in a while."

It appears that the questions were questioning her ability to tell the truth. She was asking for suggestions not an examination and interrogation.


My aren't we sensitive. And maybe some pastors do plagiarize sermons but this isn't about pastors is it? Anytime someone comes to me saying they don't have time for church I have sympathy and love. But, do I love them enough to ask the hard questions. (And, if he or she wants to ask me about my sermon prep, I guess that would be ok. And, no I don't plagiarize sermons.) If the person isn't making excuses then I'll be more than glad to discuss the alternatives.

 

Maybe I should ask you a hard question or two. What gives you the right to question their honesty and truthfulness? Why not just accept their statement unless you know it to be wrong? Isn't that what love does?

Do you love them enough to apply 1 Cor. 13:7, ". . . believes all things, . . ."?

 

very well put

Amen, this was well put.

 

good point

I never looked at this Scripture this way...this was a good take on it!

 

The person may believe that he or she is honest or truthful and might still be wrong. This isn't my first walk around the block.

 

I am sorry to see you are in this situation. Being a single mom is tough enough. I would hope any church would make an effort to see you all are ministered to on a regular basis. If you need help finding a church who may meet your church needs let me know. I will find one for you.

Is there someone who can take your girls to church at least on Sunday morn with them? Be sure and search diligently over the internet I am quite sure you can find some aids out there. I will do a search and see if I can locate some as well.

I have prayed for you and will continue to.

 

My church is personal and mobile. I take it with me on Sundays, and I keep it with me all week. I love it when members of my community remind me when I err on the street. They look at me as a church. I must behave as I would in the church building. I believe it is called being the Christian life,,notice I said "being". That is more than mere living. We are walking billboards of the church proper and we better keep our billboards clean.

I am a "sticky wicket" stiff-upper lip Englishman. We can, without effort, give the impression that we are uppity, even when we aren't. When I became a pastor, I had to work at being a man, a common man, and learn to laugh at my mistakes, and even make mistakes on purpose to make others laugh at my mistakes.

This too is church. We must exhuberate being church in everything we do.

The only real job a pastor has is to preach himself out of a job........that too is church.

Yes, Larry, I agree with you and I hope you agree with me............I do have an English temper too.

Cheers,

Jim