How about if we are seen as standing on biblical principles? </font>[/QUOTE]I am homophobic....I am homophobic....I am homophobic....I am homophobic....I am homophobic....
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Homosexual groups advocate at Christian colleges with Christian Council blessing
- Thread starter Marcia
- Start date
SuperBaptist
New Member
I don't need to be patronized for living in faith and for basing my interpretation of the Word on that small voice of the Holy Spirit, that doesn't speak the language of men nor write in those material possessions we fondly call the Holy Bible.
This certainly doesn't mean that I am anywhere near a neophyte of the written word, of commitment to my faith, or of Agnosticism. I know what they are, and I know what I am.
You will find many more more open arms when you witness from this perspective than trying to explain why "Paul hated women", and whether or not "Cain and Able married their their sisters."
These are stumbling blocks to salvation for many, and I refuse to let them stand in the way of my leading people to the simple way of Christ. I will leave these subjects to the more learned of you.
SuperBaptist
New Member
Jesus as the Word and the Bible as God's word are not the same thing -- and what good is it to know Jesus if you don't trust the words he says in the Bible? You state that you don't think the Bible is all necessarily God's word, then you refer to Jn 1.1. That's contradictory. How do you know Jn 1.1. is God's word? Why do you quote it?
Jesus did come to show God's love but he also will come again to judge sin. Love means nothing if it accepts everything - Jesus is righteous and loving, and those attributes are not contradictory. </font>[/QUOTE]The fact is, I don't really need John 1:1 to make my point but I leave it to you to refute it from a perspective of love. It kind of feels like those scenes from Passion of Christ where the Jews were attacking Jesus and condemning him.
I believe the Word is deleivered to the hearts of all through holy spirit. It is biblically based, but I will not waste your time telling you something that, in your heart, you already know. I believe that people in the darkest corners of the globe will have their hearts burdened by the Word delivered by the Holy Spirit and they will have an opportunity to accept or reject that Word.
SuperBaptist
New Member
Amen! </font>[/QUOTE]As for that which is clear. I listen to that quiet voice. I meditate (listen) at least as much as I pray. The Holy Spirit will deliver answers. It is clear to me. I have a personal relationship with Christ and don't need a democratic endorsement in order to have blessed assurance of this.
If the bible were so clear , there would not be such gaps between any two "Christian" Denominations, or those of us on this site. On one thing we agree, that we should Love. How is a different question.
Marcia
Active Member
I don't think your response above addressed the issues. It's not about who gets the gospel or how - it's about how do we view God's word, and if you don't give it the weight of God's word, then you have nothing as a standard. Inner feelings and voices are not the standard -- otherwise, we would all be on our own path (which I was for most of my adult life).
You are also making a false dichotomy between love and a biblical response to homosexuality. I'm not saying we should not show love -- this is about the issue of how Christian schools should respond to these advocates of homosexuality, especially those who call themselves Christians.
But if you do not take the Bible as God's word, then we have no common ground on which to discuss this because I would use scripture.
Marcia
Active Member
I'm sorry if I mischaracterized the CCC but I was going by the posted report that they helped to plan the ride.
I do find their stance off base -- they say their meetings with the Equality Riders "does not imply endorsement of all their goals." Which begs the question of which goals do they endorse.
Aside from that, what do you think of Christian schools hosting a breakfast for gay Christians who claim homosexuality is biblical? Is this not a violation of the biblical teaching that we are not to even eat with believers who openly engage in unrepetant sinful lifestyles? The man who was sleeping with his father's wife was put out of the church. He eventually did repent, but meanwhile, he could not be a part of the church.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
I don't think your response above addressed the issues. It's not about who gets the gospel or how - it's about how do we view God's word, and if you don't give it the weight of God's word, then you have nothing as a standard. Inner feelings and voices are not the standard -- otherwise, we would all be on our own path (which I was for most of my adult life).
You are also making a false dichotomy between love and a biblical response to homosexuality. I'm not saying we should not show love -- this is about the issue of how Christian schools should respond to these advocates of homosexuality, especially those who call themselves Christians.
But if you do not take the Bible as God's word, then we have no common ground on which to discuss this because I would use scripture. </font>[/QUOTE]Amen, Marcia!
I think this SB is here on an agenda. Most of his attacks are against the Written Word of God and he made a statement earlier that was very much racial prejudiced; saying that
Marcia,
To my knowledge, a college is not a church so the analogy doesn't apply. This isn't about a church disciplining one of its own.
I wish some of the schools weren't "hosting" the bikers, but I'll withhold judgement on their motives. It was Jesus, after all, who scandalized the Pharisees by eating with sinners.
Here's the situation as it was explained to me by someone who does not work FOR but works WITH the CCCU:
The bikers were planning the ride regardless.
They identified the schools they'd be visiting.
Some CCCU reps met with them to discuss the ride and to try to lay down some "ground rules". (Since they couldn't prevent the ride.)
Most of those schools singled out for visits are not happy to host their visitors, contrary to the Washington Post article.
The Liberty situation proves that they're going to visit who they've decided to visit regardless.
So some of the schools accepted the visits as inevitable and are preparing for the visits in order to make them as least distratcting as possible.
I can't speak for BIOLA's motives for hosting the breakfast, nor can I speak to which, if any of the "goals" the CCCU reps do agree with. I CAN say with some certainty, though, that they're working to make the best of a lose/lose situation.
[But then...we have posters who would deny that many of these are "Christian" colleges in the first place.]
To my knowledge, a college is not a church so the analogy doesn't apply. This isn't about a church disciplining one of its own.
I wish some of the schools weren't "hosting" the bikers, but I'll withhold judgement on their motives. It was Jesus, after all, who scandalized the Pharisees by eating with sinners.
Here's the situation as it was explained to me by someone who does not work FOR but works WITH the CCCU:
The bikers were planning the ride regardless.
They identified the schools they'd be visiting.
Some CCCU reps met with them to discuss the ride and to try to lay down some "ground rules". (Since they couldn't prevent the ride.)
Most of those schools singled out for visits are not happy to host their visitors, contrary to the Washington Post article.
The Liberty situation proves that they're going to visit who they've decided to visit regardless.
So some of the schools accepted the visits as inevitable and are preparing for the visits in order to make them as least distratcting as possible.
I can't speak for BIOLA's motives for hosting the breakfast, nor can I speak to which, if any of the "goals" the CCCU reps do agree with. I CAN say with some certainty, though, that they're working to make the best of a lose/lose situation.
[But then...we have posters who would deny that many of these are "Christian" colleges in the first place.]
SuperBaptist said:
basing my interpretation of the Word on that small voice of the Holy Spirit
If your interpretation of the Word were based on a more reputable source, you would know that what the Scriptures call the "still small voice" is not the inner voice of the Holy Spirit.
Perhaps you should change your nick to "SuperQuaker," as your mysticism has more in common with them than Biblically based, Baptist doctrine.
basing my interpretation of the Word on that small voice of the Holy Spirit
If your interpretation of the Word were based on a more reputable source, you would know that what the Scriptures call the "still small voice" is not the inner voice of the Holy Spirit.
Perhaps you should change your nick to "SuperQuaker," as your mysticism has more in common with them than Biblically based, Baptist doctrine.
Marcia
Active Member
RandR, thanks for the further info you've provided to give a fuller picture of the situation.
I agree with you on the part of discipline -- I didn't meant that the colleges should discipline, I was just using that as an example that believers are not supposed to socialize with those who call themselves Christians but who live a lifestyle against the Bible (such as homosexuality). Christians can eat/socialize with non-Christian homosexuals but are not supposed to interact in an ongoing way socially with Christian homosexuals as it looks like an acceptance of that sin in the church.
I used to do astrological readings for lesbian witches, and even picked handfasting dates for them (handfasting is the Wiccan wedding) so no one here or anywhere can call me homophobic (not that you did, I'm just making that point). I have a huge burden for those who are lost. My main concern is the growing community of what is called evangelical homosexuals. This is what Mel White's group, SoulForce, is about.
I am also concerned for the college students as they are more vulnerable to emotional manipulation. I think we are just seeing the beginning edge of the iceberg that is slowly drifting into the church.
SuperBaptist
New Member
I see a church to which I am a long-standing member, torn apart by hateful words, losing credibility for their dogma and greater praise of the scribes of King James than Jesus himself. Mine is not to change religions. Mine is to change MY religion back to one of love, faith, prayer and yes, listening--meditating. I see many who have done what I did for many years, read and memorize the Holy Bible rather than truly having faith in the guidance by the Holy Spirit.
If they burn all the Bibles tomorrow, the Word shall still live on through the Alpha and Omega.
If they burn all the Bibles tomorrow, the Word shall still live on through the Alpha and Omega.
The Bible is the means by which God has chosen to communicate to His people with guidance imparted by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will not guide you into any belief or opinion contrary to scripture... some other spirit might, but He won't.
Direct revelation of divine truth ended with the Apostle John. He was the last person to receive or even qualified to receive inspiration for revealing God's Word to His people.
Perhaps. But men will have no means to know Him.
Brevard interestingly enough... I am from WNC and have an aunt that lived in Pisgah Forest.
One of the most loving things a person can do for a blind person is scream "NO!" when they see them about to step off into an abyss... The least loving thing they could do is encourage them to keep going for fear of offending their pride.
The scriptures are credible... whatever voice you claim to be hearing that just so happens to seem to agree with what you already want to believe... is not.
Is that supposed to be some sort of weighty charge? I am not KJVO nor are many or most here.
I find the remarkable agreement in substance of the versions and the evidence behind them as a strong affirmation that what we have is what the early church had... and based their beliefs on.
Love and permissiveness are not the same thing.
All worthy endeavors as long as you realize that the only way God has chosen to directly communicate with us in the church age is through the scriptures.
SuperBaptist
New Member
I'm sorry to differ from your well intended debate. But, I hear nothing but opinion supported by very old Dogma. God speaks to us every day if we listen. Interestingly, it does speak against many of the interpretations of the bible I hear people defend to their death (and killing).
Until We Baptists stand up for what is right and consistent with the teachings of Christ, we will be laughed at by those who know how contradictory our support of warmongers, financiers and egomaniacs, is to Christ.
I saw none of the loftiness and hate from Christ in his story, that I see from the people that most Baptists support today. Humility is lacking in many of our religious and political leaders today. Love is completely missing, yet all they have to say is, "I'm a Christian" and many believe them. Revelations speaks of this; those that follow the Beast in the name of God.
Oh, yes, I read the Bible but in the proper context and I realize it is NOT the only way God communicates with us.
Until We Baptists stand up for what is right and consistent with the teachings of Christ, we will be laughed at by those who know how contradictory our support of warmongers, financiers and egomaniacs, is to Christ.
I saw none of the loftiness and hate from Christ in his story, that I see from the people that most Baptists support today. Humility is lacking in many of our religious and political leaders today. Love is completely missing, yet all they have to say is, "I'm a Christian" and many believe them. Revelations speaks of this; those that follow the Beast in the name of God.
Oh, yes, I read the Bible but in the proper context and I realize it is NOT the only way God communicates with us.
Marcia
Active Member
SuperBaptist, meditating in the Bible does not mean listening to some inner voice, it means contemplating (as in pondering on and thinking on) and sometimes the word means to memorize God's word. The prophets could hear directly from God but that was before the completion of the canon.
The Holy Spirit speaks through scripture. I do believe the HS can lead us individually, but God's revelation to the church is finalized in scripture.
I agree that love is missing in many who call themselves Christians - this seems to be a burden of yours. I am wondering if you are in a church where love is not being shown. If this is so, I am truly sorry about that, but please don't judge all churches based on that.
Love does not do away with God's wrath on sin - a wrath that Christ has as well, and which he will show when He comes to judge. This does not mean we go around being hateful to people, of course, but we have to show love in the same way Jesus did -- love people but reject sin. Jesus told the adulteress to "go and sin no more." This is often left out when people tell this story.
The Holy Spirit speaks through scripture. I do believe the HS can lead us individually, but God's revelation to the church is finalized in scripture.
I agree that love is missing in many who call themselves Christians - this seems to be a burden of yours. I am wondering if you are in a church where love is not being shown. If this is so, I am truly sorry about that, but please don't judge all churches based on that.
Love does not do away with God's wrath on sin - a wrath that Christ has as well, and which he will show when He comes to judge. This does not mean we go around being hateful to people, of course, but we have to show love in the same way Jesus did -- love people but reject sin. Jesus told the adulteress to "go and sin no more." This is often left out when people tell this story.
SuperBaptist said:
I see many who have done what I did for many years, read and memorize the Holy Bible rather than truly having faith in the guidance by the Holy Spirit.
Since all evidence points to the fact that what you call the "Holy Spirit" is merely your own personal warm fuzzies . . . good for them.
Mine is to change MY religion back to one of love, faith, prayer and yes, listening--meditating.
So your particular brand of sanctimonious finger-wagging is "love"? Obviously Pharisaism doesn't just come in conservative flavours.
If they burn all the Bibles tomorrow, the Word shall still live on through the Alpha and Omega.
Outside of the written Word, there is no true, objective knowledge of the Alpha and Omega.
I see many who have done what I did for many years, read and memorize the Holy Bible rather than truly having faith in the guidance by the Holy Spirit.
Since all evidence points to the fact that what you call the "Holy Spirit" is merely your own personal warm fuzzies . . . good for them.
Mine is to change MY religion back to one of love, faith, prayer and yes, listening--meditating.
So your particular brand of sanctimonious finger-wagging is "love"? Obviously Pharisaism doesn't just come in conservative flavours.
If they burn all the Bibles tomorrow, the Word shall still live on through the Alpha and Omega.
Outside of the written Word, there is no true, objective knowledge of the Alpha and Omega.
Supermisguided,Superbaptist,
Sorry friend but you cannot claim Jesus Christ as your Savior and deny the truth of Scripture. Jesus Himself quoted from the OT at particular times. Not that that would matter to you since nothing is concrete or objective in your belief system.
Your not posting here to find truth your posting here to irritate etc.... I would be careful my friend any spirit that is guiding you to a place where the bible is mocked is not of God but of Satan. Of course you might know this if you read the Bible and took it at it's word.
You may share the way of Jesus with people and discount the bible at the same time. If that is what your doing then your being terribly deceived.
Your a blind leader of the blind.
I grew up in Asheville. Sounds to me like you let some of those New Age folk that have moved into our neck of the woods mess with your head.
I will warn you if you haven't been born again according to Scripture you will spend eternity in hell.
Sorry friend but you cannot claim Jesus Christ as your Savior and deny the truth of Scripture. Jesus Himself quoted from the OT at particular times. Not that that would matter to you since nothing is concrete or objective in your belief system.
Your not posting here to find truth your posting here to irritate etc.... I would be careful my friend any spirit that is guiding you to a place where the bible is mocked is not of God but of Satan. Of course you might know this if you read the Bible and took it at it's word.
You may share the way of Jesus with people and discount the bible at the same time. If that is what your doing then your being terribly deceived.
Your a blind leader of the blind.
I grew up in Asheville. Sounds to me like you let some of those New Age folk that have moved into our neck of the woods mess with your head.
I will warn you if you haven't been born again according to Scripture you will spend eternity in hell.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Amen, ShannonL!
The only standard of truth that we have is God's Word, i.e., the Bible. Apart from that we don't know who the Holy Spirit is, and who Jesus Christ is. Since in your mind, you have burned and done away with the Bible, then there is a good chance that the Holy Spirit and the Jesus Christ that you worship is not the same Christ and the same H.S. of the Bible, or of the triune Godhead that the Bible reveals to us. The only standard of truth that we have is the inspired Word of God.
You claim to have knowledge apart from the Word of God. You claim you can be led by the Holy Spirit apart from the Word of God. That is gnosticism, one of the earliest heresies of the church. The first epistle of John was written to counter the gnostics. That is why one of the key words of that epistle is "know" or one of its derivatives. John was saying that he could know Christ from an objective source. He was an eyewitness. There was nothing secretive about his knowledge.
DHK