House Votes to Extend Patriot Act: Permanently!

[JGrubbs]

The House voted Thursday to extend the USA Patriot Act, the nation's main anti-terrorism tool, just hours after televisions in the Capitol beamed images of a new attack in London.

As similar legislation worked its way through the Senate, House Republicans generally cast the law as a valuable asset in the war on terror. Most Democrats echoed that support but said they were concerned the law could allow citizens' civil liberties to be infringed.

After more than nine hours of debate, the House approved the measure 257-171. Forty-three Democrats joined 214 Republicans in voting to renew key provisions of the Patriot Act that were set to expire at the end of the year.

The bulk of the back-and-forth centered on language making permanent 14 of 16 provisions that had four-year sunset provisions under the original law, which Congress passed overwhelmingly after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

The bill also includes 10-year extensions to the two other provisions set to expire on Dec. 31, one allowing roving wiretaps and another allowing searches of library and medical records.

<snip>

"Periodically revisiting the Patriot Act is a good thing," said Rep. Martin Meehan, D-Mass. "The Patriot Act was an effort to answer the most difficult question a democracy faces: How much freedom are we willing to give up to feel safe?"

Source: Associated Press

 

[JGrubbs]

"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither safety nor liberty." --Benjamin Franklin

 

[TexasSky]

I'm not surprised. The Patriot Act was originally written by Joseph Libermann.

I think this is a tragedy, but I'm not surprised.

 

[JGrubbs]

You can't blame the Dems 100%...

"President Bush hailed the vote."

When I called my GOP Congressman's office, they acted shocked that I would be asking him to vote against these provisions in the "Patriot Act".

 

[carpro]

What really amazes me is most of the fuss has been over accessing library records. Out of all of the provisions of the Patriot Act, this one seems to be the most often mentioned.

I could care less who knows what I read!

 

[OldRegular]

What we better understand is that the enemy lives among us [and they are not all Muslims but include some leftists]. I just heard on Fox News that some Muslem students at Georgia Tech cheered when the Twin Towers fell. Too bad there wasn't a Lester Maddox around to wade in on them with a ball bat!

 

[Plain Old Bill]

To bad the buildings did'nt fall on them.

 

[JamesBell]

This isn't an assault on anyone's rights. Show me any provision in the Constitution that would prevent any of these things from being OK. There is a ban against unreasonable searches and seizuers. I do not believe it is unreasonable to investigate what a person is reading. Much trouble has began by reading a book. The bombing in Oklahoma City can be traced to the pages of The Turner Diaries. How many people have been injured as a direct result of the Anarchist's Cookbook?
A wiretap provision is necessary in these times. It should be remembered that the police must still obtain a warrent from a judge to listen to your phone calls, to search your records, or to search your home. A judge is not going to give permission for them to search your records unless there is proper reason to do so.

It isn't as if this is new. Some of the methods have changed, but that is about it. They could always search your home. Now, they just don't have to tell you that they did so. This is important, as it keeps terrorists from warning their "friends" that the police are on to them. Again, there must be probable cause to search. If you don't give anyone cause to search, you have nothing to worry about.

Personally, I thank God for the men and women that had the courage to stand up and vote yes. They knew that this had been turned into an unpopular political position... and they still had the courage to stand up and do the right thing.

 

[JGrubbs]

Under the Patriot Act, the FBI can secretly conduct a physical search or wiretap on American citizens to obtain evidence of crime without proving probable cause, as the Fourth Amendment explicitly requires.

It allows the FBI to access your records without a warrant or probably cause. It forces any third party, including doctors, libraries, bookstores, universities, and Internet service providers- to turn over records on their clients or customers, and forbids disclosure of their seizures. The FBI no longer has to show reasonable suspicion that the records are related to criminal activity, much less the requirement to show "probable cause" that is listed in the Fourth Amendment.

Source: Patriot Act Fact Sheet

USA PATRIOT Act
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Much of the backlash against the USA PATRIOT Act has been directed at the provisions for Sneak-and-Peek searches. Critics argue that Provision 213 authorizes "surreptitious search warrants and seizures upon a showing of reasonable necessity and eliminates the requirement of Rule 41 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure that immediate notification of seized items be provided."

In special cases covered by FISA (incorporated in the USA PATRIOT Act), the warrants may come from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) instead of a common Federal or State Court. FISC warrants are not public record and therefore are not required to be released. Other warrants must be released, especially to the person under investigation.

A second complaint against Sneak-and-Peek searches is that the owner of the property (or person identified in business/library records) does not have to be told about the search. There is a special clause that allows the Director of the FBI to request phone records for a person without ever notifying the person. For all other searches, the person must be notified, but not necessarily before the search. The judge providing the warrant may allow a delay in notification when there is risk of:

* endangering the life or physical safety of an individual;
* flight from prosecution;
* destruction of or tampering with evidence;
* intimidation of potential witnesses; or
* otherwise seriously jeopardizing an investigation or unduly delaying a trial.

The delays are on average 7 days, but have been as long as 90 days.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act

What happens when the government uses The Patriot Act to go after it's own citizens for what ever reason. In light of the "war on terror" there are those that support The Patriot Act to try to stop Islamic terrorist, but you have to look at the big picture, how will The Patriot Act be used in the future. The Patriot Act II is even worse!

It will allow the government to revoke the citizenship of natural born Americans, and the deportment to any country of citizens and non-citizens alike, to stand trial before a foreign court without any review from American courts.

 

[church mouse guy]

London needs a patriot act so that more can be done over there. American law just got modernized, as James Bell wrote above.

 

[JGrubbs]

The Antichrist will love this "modernized" law, known as The Patriot Act, it will make it so much easier to for him to find and persecute the Christians here in America in the end times!

 

[carpro]

Originally posted by JGrubbs:
The Antichrist will love this "modernized" law, known as The Patriot Act, it will make it so much easier to for him to find and persecute the Christians here in America in the end times!

You spend far too much energy contemplating the Antichrist. Do you believe there is anything you can do to change God's plan for mankind? You're not going to hide when it comes time to declare your allegiance to Christ, are you?

I really don't care who knows my medical history or who knows what books I read or what they think of the grades I made or what I studied in school or what I do over the internet.

What I do care about is providing as safe an environment as I can for my kids and grandkids to grow up in while we wait on the return of our Lord.

 

[JGrubbs]

How does one statement about the Antichrist on this thread translate into spending "far too much energy contemplating the Antichrist"? While I don't believe there is anything I can do to change God's plan for mankind, I also don't believe I should participate in helping those who will eventually persecute the Christians. I am also concerned about providing a safe environment for my kids and grandkids to grow up in, but I don't follow the escape mentality that we as Christians will be raptured before the Antichrist comes to power.

 

[carpro]

Originally posted by JGrubbs:
I don't follow the escape mentality that we as Christians will be raptured before the Antichrist comes to power.

Escape mentality!

To be at peace and comfortable with God's plan for me is an "escape mentality".

Here's hoping that I remain an escapist for the rest of my time here on earth.

 

[One View]

Some tend to confuse "inconveniences" with "liberties". The FBI can gladly read my email or look at my back account (perhaps they would feel sorry for me

).

I'll gladly be detained if I fit some profile!

In my opinion, the Patriot Act doesn't go far enough! We need a speedy and thorough deportation process and secure our borders. And we need more profiling!

 

[Kiffen]

The problem is that as time goes on the Government may change into something we never intended. Change does not occur overnight but gradual. We always assume the government is looking out for us with such Acts when in reality the Patriot Act in time could be used to spy on it's on citizens are even used against us in much the same way citizens in the Soviet Union were spied on.

A good example is, If you exchange emails with someone in China or Vietnam you and the person you email have to be careful what you and they write because their emails are monitored by their own Governments "Patriot Act" and a email that offends the government in those countries could end up getting your friend put in jail. Don't say it couldn't happen here!!

The USA is nowhere near those 2 countries but such things as the Patriot Act lay a foundation that within a generation or less we could have a more intrusive government more similar to Vietnam and China than that of Jefferson and Madison.


"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither safety nor liberty." --Benjamin Franklin

 

[TexasSky]

Amen Kiffen!

Someone wrote: "What really amazes me is most of the fuss has been over accessing library records. Out of all of the provisions of the Patriot Act, this one seems to be the most often mentioned. I could care less who knows what I read!"

My response is, always remember that today's law could be used by tomorrow's despot.

We've been warned by God's word that the world hates us, and that as we near the time of Christ's returns the world will persecute us.

In my lifetime I've seen the world go from almost everyone proclaiming to be Christian to the world mocking and laughing at Christians.
To Judges and Teachers losing their jobs because they stood up for their faith.

We always think it will never happen. In China people are hiding in closets to read their bibles. It can happen in America. I don't want my descendants to go to prison because they checked out a Christian Book from a library.

 

[TexasSky]

Just an illustration:

When Ronald Reagan was President - I was pretty high up in the Republican Party. The delegate convention I was at wanted, desperately, to pass a line-item-veto for the President.

I told the group, "Remember, if you give it to Reagan today, you could be giving it to Ted Kennedy tomorrow."

They laughed.
They were POSITIVE that whoever followed Reagan would be someone they loved and adored.

History tells you the rest of the story.
Imagine, if you will, a line item veto in the hands of Bill Clinton, or Al Gore, or George Bush.

You must look beyond today when you talk about taking away constitutional rights.

 

[just-want-peace]

You must look beyond today when you talk about taking away constitutional rights.

Don't limit this idea to Con. Rights.

I think EVERY law should be sunsetted at max 5 years. If proven to do what it was originally designed to do, then extend for another 5 years; otherwise let it die a natural death.

In fact sunset EVERY law on the federal level right now, and hopefully the legislature will be so busy trying to maintain the "legal" status of the country, they won't have time to wreak their havoc with new laws!?!? (I make this statement only partially sarcastically!)

 

[carpro]

Originally posted by TexasSky:
Just an illustration:

When Ronald Reagan was President - I was pretty high up in the Republican Party. The delegate convention I was at wanted, desperately, to pass a line-item-veto for the President.

I told the group, "Remember, if you give it to Reagan today, you could be giving it to Ted Kennedy tomorrow."

They laughed.
They were POSITIVE that whoever followed Reagan would be someone they loved and adored.

History tells you the rest of the story.
Imagine, if you will, a line item veto in the hands of Bill Clinton, or Al Gore, or George Bush.

You must look beyond today when you talk about taking away constitutional rights.

The "line item veto" was placed in the hands of Clinton. You must have forgotten.