How about a Bible study on Matthew 24/

[Ed Edwards]

What you said about Matthew 24:21-30
is EXACTLY what I could say about
Matthew 24:21-30.
In fact Matthew 24:15-20 about the
AoD = Abomination of Desolation has happened
before (twice) and will happen again once
at the middle of the Tribulation "of the
worshipers of Antichrist" Period.

Well, I wouldn't say snide stuff about
the PTR = Pretribulation Rapture2,
as you did, but the rest I agree with.
You see in my PTR theory there is also
a post-tribulation Resurrection1 just like
yours. But that is not the ONLY time
a rapture1 follows on the heals of a
resurrection1. So your post-tribulation
theory is a 'post-tribulation only theory'.

So Brother BobRyan - do you then think that
Matthew 24:31 is NOT "AFTER the tribulation
of those days"? Maybe you left out something
from you post?
I thought you taught like the SDA that
Matthew 24:31 is part of the stuff that
happens "AFTER the tribulation of those days"???

I think that Matthew 24:31-44 is the Answer
Jesus made to the question the disciples asked
in Matthew 24:3, "what is the sign ... of the
end of the world (KJV1611 Edition) or more
correct: "what will be the sign ... of the end
of the age? (TNIV).

It is the pretribulation rapture2 that sneaks up
on mankind like a thief in the night, not the
post-tribulation resurrection2. The post-tribualtion
resurrection2 can be timed as soon as one knows
the date of the pretribulation rapture2. There won't
be anybody here but Jews to sneak upon, but
they will be proteced by the hands of God.

//Is it really the PERFECT SEQUENCE presented for
the post-trib view OR is this the PERFECT SEQUENCE
for a pretrib "but immediately BEFORE THE TRIBULATION" model.//

You are fine until you get to Matthew 24:31 -
it is the perfect sequence for the post-trib view.
But I believe in a post-tribulation resurrection2
PLUS a pretribulatin rapture2 --
both are part of what Revelation 20:5 calls
the 'first resurrection'.

Matthew 24:31 starts talking about "before the Tribulation of the
lost under antichrist" period because it speaks of the gathering of
the SAVED.

 

[EdSutton]

When was it written?

Who wrote this book?

Who was it written to?

What do we know about the author of this book?

Oh,is this the right thread to post this title?

This should be an enjoyable study!

It would appear that the book was written sometime before the destruction of the Temple in 70, as were the other three gospels, as well.

While I tend to think the traditional authors of the gospels (and Acts) are, in fact, Mattthew, Mark, Luke, and John (with the obvious third gospel and Acts being written by the same individual), there is simply no mention in the Scriptures themselves, as to who wrote any of the Gospels or Acts. (This is also true of I, II, and III John, and to a slightly lesser degree, of Hebrews, to chase a rabbit, a bit.)

One bit of internal evidence, perhaps, is the downplaying of the supposed authors, when they speak of themselves, where they easily could merely mention their own names.

That said, I will go with the testimony of the great majority of the early church, as to Matthew writing the first Gospel.

It was apparently writen to the Jews, primarily, for it presents the emphasis of the Lord Jesus Christ as the Sovereign King of the Jews, the Son of David, and son of Abraham, heir to the throne, and the presentation of Jesus as "the royal branch of Jesse" (Isa. 11:1; Jer. 23:5; 33:15), with the Key verse of the book being the first verse of the book, as it opens with -

1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham: (Matt. 1:1 - NKJV)

and proceeds to establish his royal lineage.

However, this short 'intro' I have just given, is about the complete book of Matthew, not just chapter 24.

But you have made a good post, and it should be interesting to read it, as it develops.

Hope this helps a little.

[Edited to add this]

A very good book about this was written by a former pastor of mine of several years ago, Walter K. Price, titled Jesus' Prophetic Sermon. One who manages to acquire a copy of it, though it is probably a bit dated now, will have well invested a couple of bucks, IMO.

Ed

 

[jilphn1022]

Thanks for sharing

with the board for thoughts. I might add that I enjoyed reading your post.

Hopefully you can bring some thoughts from your reading and studying of this particular chapter.

If you all would like to participate in a verse by verse study of Matthew 24 feel free to start and I and others will add our thoughts too.

 

[BobRyan]

Matt 24
21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
22 ""Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

27 "" For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

29 ""But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.

31 ""And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect[/b] from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

So Brother BobRyan - do you then think that
Matthew 24:31 is NOT "AFTER the tribulation
of those days"?

Maybe you left out something
from you post?
I thought you taught like the SDA that
Matthew 24:31 is part of the stuff that
happens "AFTER the tribulation of those days"???

Why wouldn't I want to allow vs 31 to follow vs 30?

Rather the sequence in Matt 24 is "perfect".

1. Great Tribulation (vs 21)
2. THEN AFTER the tribulation -- signs in the sun, moon (vs 29
3. AND THEN the sign of the Son of man APPEARING in the clouds of heaven --- all tribes of the earth mourn.
4. And then the saints GATHERED to Christ - raptured at that 2nd coming event AFTER Christ has appeared!



//Is it really the PERFECT SEQUENCE presented for
the post-trib view OR is this the PERFECT SEQUENCE
for a pretrib "but immediately BEFORE THE TRIBULATION" model.//

Ed said
Matthew 24:31 starts talking about "before the Tribulation" of the lost under antichrist" period because it speaks of the gathering of the SAVED.

It is left as an exercise for the reader to observe that there is no "BEFORE the Tribulation" subject matter in vs 31 of Matt 24.

Postrib pre-mill outline:

0. church age continues -- you are here
1. Tribulation time Matthew 24:21-28
2. Second Advent of Jesus event (1Thess 4, Rev 19, Matthew 24:29-30)
2.A The FIRST resurrection (Rev 20) event Matthew 24:31-44, Rev 20:4-5
of the blessed and holy at Christ's appearing in Rev 19 –
Is the same as the resurrection at Christ's return in 1Thess 4.
2.B. Saints raptured to heaven as promised in John 14 (1 Thess 4) Matt 24:31
3. literal millennium spent in heaven with Christ (Rev 20)
4. Second Resurrection (Rev 20)
5. Lake of Fire destruction of the wicked (Rev 20)
6. new heaven & new earth (Rev 21)
[/quote]

 

[BobRyan]

with the board for thoughts. I might add that I enjoyed reading your post.

Hopefully you can bring some thoughts from your reading and studying of this particular chapter.

If you all would like to participate in a verse by verse study of Matthew 24 feel free to start and I and others will add our thoughts too.

Ok - post 11 -- speaks to vs 1-13

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1129543&postcount=11

What are your thoughts on the first 13 verses of the chapter?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Ed Edwards]

So many errors to correct in what BobRyan is saying.

First, the world does NOT end when Jesus
comes (at the resurrection2) and sets up
his PHYSICAL Messanic & Millinnial Kingdom.

Second, the Messanic Millinnial Kingdom is
going to be physical:
a physical Jesus,
sitting on a physical throne of David,
in a physical Jerusalem,
over physical Jews,
over a physical world,
etc.

Third. the signs of Matthew 24:4-14 are signs
that THE CHURCH AGE CONTINUES
not signs of the 2ed coming of Jesus.

<insert 'church age' document
next post>

Fourth, 'the first resurrection' of Revelation 20:5
is in two parts (both described in Revelation 20:4)
one at the start of the Tribulation "of the bad
guys under the Antichrist" Period
and one at the end of the Tribulation "of the bad
guys under the Antichrist" Period

Etc. Etc.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Stars (*) below show my statements.
Otherwise all I'm doing is a word study
in the nKJV.

----------------------

"AGE" in the New King James Version (nKJV).

The KJV tends to confuse the Greek "aeon" /age/ and
Greek "cosmos" /world/ and calles them both "world".
So i'll use the nKJV for my word study on "age".
References to how old someone is (AKA: "age") have been eliminated.


Mt 12:32 (nKJV):
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man,
it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit,
it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Mt 13:39 (nKJV):
The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest
is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.

*souls shall be harvested at the end of this age

Mt 13:40 (nKJV):
Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire,
so it will be at the end of this age.

Mt 13:49 (nKJV):
So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come
forth, separate the wicked from among the just,

Mt 24:3 (nKJV):
Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came
to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be?
And what will be the sign of Your coming,
and of the end of the age?"

Mt 28:20 (nKJV):
teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;
and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

*Jesus is with us completely to the end of the age.
*the age has an end

Mr 10:30 (nKJV):
who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time--houses
and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands,
with persecutions--and in the age to come, eternal life.

*people will have eternal life, in the age to come

Lu 18:30 (nKJV):
who shall not receive many times more in this present time,
and in the age to come eternal life."

Lu 20:34-35 (nKJV):
34. And Jesus answered and said to them, "The sons of this age marry
and are given in marriage.
35. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age,
and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;

*there is a future age when marriage is NOT, after resurrection from the dead

1Co 1:20 (nKJV):
Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer
of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

*this age has a disputer

1Co 2:6 (nKJV):
However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature,
yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age,
who are coming to nothing.

*the wisdom of this age will come to nothing
*the rules of this age will come to nothing

1Co 2:8 (nKJV):
which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known,
they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

1Co 3:18 (nKJV):
Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems
to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.

2Co 4:4 (nKJV):
whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe,
lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ,
who is the image of God, should shine on them.

*the god of this age is NOT Jesus, the Christ

Ga 1:4 (nKJV):
who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver
us from this present evil age, according to the will
of our God and Father,

*this age is evil

Eph 1:21 (nKJV):
far above all principality and power and might and dominion,
and every name that is named, not only in this age
but also in that which is to come.

*there is an age to follow this age

Eph 6:12 (nKJV):
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities,
against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,
against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

* this age is dark

1Ti 6:17 (nKJV):
Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty,
nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives
us richly all things to enjoy.

* this age has rich people in it

Tit 2:12 (nKJV):
teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts,
we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,

Heb 6:5 (nKJV):
and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

This great section on the Security of the Believer
speaks of an "age to come".
* there will be "good ... powers" in the age to come.

AGES in the KJV1769:

Eph 2:7 (KJV1769):
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches
of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

**There will be ages after this age.

Eph 3:5 (KJV1769):
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men,
as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Eph 3:21 (KJV1769):
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages,
world without end. Amen.

Col 1:26 (KJV1769):
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages
and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

*There were ages before this age.
*ages are similiar to generations

 

[Ed Edwards]

These are what i'm calling "the church age"
or Gentile Age:

Mt 12:32 (nKJV):
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man,
it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks
against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven
him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Mt 13:39 (nKJV):
The enemy who sowed them is the devil,
the harvest is the end of the age,
and the reapers are the angels.

Mt 13:40 (nKJV):
Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned
in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.

Mt 13:49 (nKJV):
So it will be at the end of the age.
The angels will come forth, separate the
wicked from among the just,

Mt 24:3 (nKJV):
Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives,
the disciples came to Him privately, saying,
"Tell us, when will these things be?
And what will be the sign of Your coming,
and of the end of the age?"

Mt 28:20 (nKJV):
teaching them to observe all things that I have
commanded you; and lo, I am with you always,
even to the end of the age." Amen.

Mr 10:30 (nKJV):
who shall not receive a hundredfold now
in this time--houses and brothers and sisters
and mothers and children and lands,
with persecutions--and in the age to come, eternal life.

Lu 18:30 (nKJV):
who shall not receive many times more in this present time,
and in the age to come eternal life."

Lu 20:34-35 (nKJV):
And Jesus answered and said to them, "The sons of this age
marry and are given in marriage.
But those who are counted worthy to attain that age,
and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry
nor are given in marriage;

1Co 1:20 (nKJV):
Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the
disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish
the wisdom of this world?

1Co 2:6 (nKJV):
However, we speak wisdom among those who
are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age,
nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.

1Co 2:8 (nKJV):
which none of the rulers ofthis age knew;
for had they known, they would not have crucified
the Lord of glory.


1Co 3:18 (nKJV):
Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems
to be wise in this age, let him become a fool
that he may become wise.

2Co 4:4 (nKJV):
whose minds the god of this age has blinded,
who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel
of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God,
should shine on them.

Ga 1:4 (nKJV):
who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver
us from this present evil age,
according to the will of our God and Father,

Eph 1:21 (nKJV):
far above all principality and power and might
and dominion, and every name that is named,
not only in this age but also in that which is to come.

Eph 6:12 (nKJV):
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood,
but against principalities, against powers,
against the rulers of the darkness of this age,
against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

1Ti 6:17 (nKJV):
Command those who are rich in this present age
not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain
riches but in the living God, who gives us
richly all things to enjoy.

Tit 2:12 (nKJV):
teaching us that, denying ungodliness and
worldly lusts, we should live soberly,
righteously, and godly in the present age,

Gentile Age:

Luke 21:24 (nKJV):
24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword,
and be led away captive into all nations.
And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles
until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

This excerpt from the Mount Olivet Discourse
parallels Matthew 24-25, Mark 13, and Luke 21.
All are the MOD speaking of Jesus, when
He predicted what would happen in the future.

 

[BobRyan]

So many errors to correct in what BobRyan is saying.

First, the world does NOT end when Jesus
comes (at the resurrection2) and sets up
his PHYSICAL Messanic & Millinnial Kingdom.

Second, the Messanic Millinnial Kingdom is
going to be physical:
a physical Jesus,
sitting on a physical throne of David,
in a physical Jerusalem,
over physical Jews,
over a physical world,
etc.

Third. the signs of Matthew 24:4-14 are signs
that THE CHURCH AGE CONTINUES
not signs of the 2ed coming of Jesus.

All good claims Ed -- the trick is showing that any of them are actually correct.

Hence the whole point of posting on these threads -- eh?

BTW -- did we ever see a response from you on Matt 24:31??

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Ed Edwards]

humor break :tonofbricks:

Pretribulation rapture2 reading:
Mt 13:40 (nKJV):
Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned
in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.

Post-tribulation resurrection2 only reading:
Mt 13:40 (nKJV + ADDITION):
Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned
in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age
AND SO IT WILL BE IN ONE AND
ONLY ONE DAY.

Pretribulation rapture2 reading:
1Co 3:18 (nKJV):
Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems
to be wise in this age, let him become a fool
that he may become wise.

[I'd have to be a fool for JESUS to
read Matthew 24 with this def in my mind:
polysyndeton = a retorical device using
literally 'many and's (used in Hebrew and
Greek - lacking Microsoft Word - instead
of outlines) ].

Post-tribulation resurrection2 only reading:
1Co 3:18 (nKJV +change):
Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems
to be wise in this age,
LET HER START A NEW DENOMINATION
that (s)he may become wise.

 

[Ed Edwards]

All good claims Ed -- the trick is showing that any of them are actually correct.

Hence the whole point of posting on these threads -- eh?

BTW -- did we ever see a response from you on Matt 24:31??

...

Yes, on 'hence' sentence.

I'm going to get in trouble reposting two very long posts
about Matthew 24 -- there is a largely unwritten rule
around here: don't double post - that is posting the same
post on multiple places [the "don't post the same new
topic OP (opening post)" is written around somewhere]

 

[Ed Edwards]

Scripture is from the KJV1611 Edition

IMHO the questions the disciples asked in Matt 24:3
were answered by Jesus, but not in the order
asked:

Mat 24:3 And as he sate vpon the mount of Oliues,
the Disciples came vnto him priuately, saying,
I Tell vs, when shall these things be?
II And what shall be the signe of thy coming,
III and (what shall be the signe) of the end of the world?

That was the order in which the questions were asked.

Here is the time order of the fullfillment of these events:

I Tell vs, when shall these things be?
III and(what shall be the signe) of the end of the world?
II And what shall be the signe of thy coming,

Here is the question & the scripture in the order events come down:

I Tell vs, when shall these things be?

Mat 24:4 And Iesus answered, and said
vnto them, Take heed that no man deceiue you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ: and shall deceiue many.
Mat 24:6 And yee shall heare of warres, and rumors of warres: See that yee be not troubled: for all these things must come to passe, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdome against kingdome, and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes in diuers places.
Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrowes.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliuer you vp to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and yee shall bee hated of all nations for my names sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false Prophets shall rise, and shall deceiue many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquitie shal abound, the loue of many shall waxe cold.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure vnto the end, the same shall be saued.
Mat 24:14 And this Gospell of the kingdome shall be preached in all the world,
for a witnesse vnto al nations, and then shall the end come.

III and (what shall be the signe) of the end of the world? ('world' should be 'age')

Mat 24:31 And hee shall send his Angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall
gather together his Elect from the foure windes, from one end of heauen to the other.
Mat 24:32 Now learne a parable of the figtree: when his branch is yet tender, and putteth
foorth leaues, yee know that Summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise yee, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is neere, euen at the doores.
Mat 24:34 Uerely I say vnto you, this generation shall not passe, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:35 Heauen and earth shall passe away, but my wordes shall not passe away.
Mat 24:36 But of that day and houre knoweth no man, no, not the Angels of heauen, but my Father onely.
Mat 24:37 But as the dayes of Noe were, so shall also the comming of the Sonne of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the dayes that were before the Flood, they were eating, and drinking,
marrying, and giuing in mariage, vntill the day that Noe entred into the Arke,
Mat 24:39 And knew not vntill the Flood came, and tooke them all away: so shall also
the comming of the Sonne of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field, the one shalbe taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill: the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therfore, for ye know not what houre your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the good man of the house had knowen in what
watch the thiefe would come, he would haue watched, and would not haue suffered his house to be broken vp.
Mat 24:44 Therefore be yee also ready: for in such an houre as you thinke not, the sonne of man commeth.

II And what shall be the signe of thy coming,

Mat 24:15 When yee therefore
shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken
of by Daniel the Prophet, stand in the holy place,
(who so readeth, let him vnderstand.)
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Iudea, flee into the mountaines.
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the house top,
not come downe, to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field,
returne backe to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And wòe vnto them that are with child,
and to them that giue sucke in those dayes.
Mat 24:20 But pray yee that your flight bee
not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation,
such as was not since the beginning
of the world to this time, no, nor euer shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those dayes should be shortned, there should
no flesh be saued: but for the elects sake, those dayes shall be shortned.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say vnto you, Loe, heere is Christ, or there: beleeue it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shal shew great
signes and wonders: insomuch that (if it were possible,) they shall deceiue the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I haue told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore, if they shall say vnto you, Behold, he is in the desert,
goe not foorth: Behold, he is in the secret chambers, beleeue it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightening commeth out of the East, and shineth euen vnto
the West: so shall also the coming of the Sonne of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoeuer the carkeise is, there will the Eagles bee gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those dayes, shall the Sunne
be darkned, and the Moone shall not giue her light, and the starres shall fall from
heauen, and the powers of the heauens shall be shaken.
Mat 24:30 And then shall appeare the signe of the Sonne of man in heauen: and
then shall all the Tribes of the earth mourne, and they shall see the Sonne
of man coming in the clouds
of heauen, with power and great glory.

 

[BobRyan]

the problem is that Vs 30 and 31 fit in sequence perfectly -- yet you want to separate them. Can't be done.

For other great Bible commentators who agree with this Post Trib view -- who are in some cases also well accepted Baptist authors -- here is one... the FIRST Baptist to author a well accepted well known Bible commentary

Post Trib view of John Gill


John Gill Rev 14:15
the reasons follow: for the time is come for thee to reap;
the time of the end of the world, and of the judgment of it, which is fixed by God; and of Christ's coming to judge both quick and dead, and of the first resurrection, or the resurrection of the saints: for the harvest of the earth is ripe:
the measure of the sins of wicked men will now be filled up, and the afflictions of the saints will be accomplished in them, and the number of God's elect will be completed in the effectual calling; they will be all called, and so things will be ripe for the second coming of Christ. There seems to be some reference to (Joel 3:13) "put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe": the Jewish doctors ask F2, to whom is this said? R. Phineas, in the name of R. Hilkiah, says, (Mykalml) , "to the angels"; so the mighty ones, in (Revelation 14:11) are by Kimchi interpreted of the angels.
http://www.studylight.org/com/geb/view.cgi?book=re&chapter=014&verse=015

John Gill on Rev 14:16 reaping of the earth at then end of time – at the 2nd coming.

though it seems best to understand it of the Lord's wheat harvest at the end of the world, when the wheat of the earth shall be reaped, and gathered into Christ's barn, or garner, or into his and his Father's kingdom; this reaping of the earth is the removing of the saints out of it, not by death, but by the resurrection of them from the dead; for when Christ shall come in the clouds of heaven, and sit on the white cloud, or throne, the dead in him will rise first, and the living saints will be changed, and both will be caught up together, to meet the Lord in the air; so that the earth will be reaped, and be clear of them, and there will be none left in it but the wicked of the world; and what will become of them is declared in the following verses, under the representation of a vintage.
http://www.studylight.org/com/geb/view.cgi?book=re&chapter=014&verse=016

 

[BobRyan]

Albert Barnes –

Matt 24:31
They shall gather together his elect. Elect. See Barnes "Matthew 24:22". The word means Christians--the chosen of God. If this refers to the destruction of Jerusalem, it means, God shall send forth his messengers--whatever he may choose to employ for that purpose--signs, wonders, human messengers, or the angels themselves--and gather Christians into a place of safety, so that they shall not be destroyed with the Jews. If it refers to the last judgment, as it doubtless in a primary or secondary sense does, then it means that he will send his angels to gather his chosen, his elect, together from all places, Matthew 13:39,41-43. This shall be done before the living shall be changed, 1 Corinthians 15:51,52; 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17.

http://www.studylight.org/com/bnn/view.cgi?book=mt&chapter=024


Albert Barns – Rev 14:14-15
Verse 15. And another angel. The fourth in order, Revelation 14:6,8-9.
Came out of the temple. See Barnes "Revelation 11:19". Came, as it were, from the immediate presence of God; for the temple was regarded as his peculiar dwelling-place.
Crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud. To the Messiah, Revelation 14:14. That is, the command was borne directly from God by the angel to the Messiah, to go forth and reap the great harvest of the world. It is not a command of the angel, but a command from God the Father to the Son. This is in accordance with all the representations in the New Testament, that the Son as Messiah or Redeemer is subordinate to the Father, and performs the work which has been given him to do. See John 3:16-17; 5:19; 10:18; John 12:49; 14:31. Compare See Barnes "Revelation 1:1".
Thrust in thy sickle, and reap. Into the great harvest of the world.
For the time is come for thee to reap. That is, "the harvest which thou art to reap is ripe; the seed which thou hast sown has grown up; the earth which thou hast cultivated has produced this golden grain, and it is fit that thou shouldst now gather it in." This language is appropriately addressed to the Son of God, for all the fruits of righteousness on the earth may be regarded as the result of his culture.
For the harvest of the earth is ripe. The "harvest" in reference to the righteous--the fruit of the good seed sown by the Saviour and his apostles and ministers. The time alluded to here is the end of the world, when the affairs of earth shall be about to be wound up. The design is to state that the Redeemer will then gather in a great and glorious harvest, and by this assurance to sustain the hearts of his people in times of trial and persecution.
{b} "Thrust in" Joel 3:13
{c} "harvest" Jeremiah 51:33; Matthew 13:39
{1} "ripe" "dried"
Verse 16. And he that sat on the cloud. The Saviour, Revelation 14:14.
Thrust in his sickle on the earth. To cut down the harvest; that is, to gather his people to himself.
And the earth was reaped. So far as the righteous were concerned. The end had come; the church was redeemed; the work contemplated was accomplished; and the results of the work of the Saviour were like a glorious harvest.
http://www.studylight.org/com/bnn/view.cgi?book=re&chapter=014

The point here is not -- "If Barnes agrees and John Gill agrees it must be right".

the point is that this IS the classic view of well known Bible scholars in the 18th century -- even Baptist ones!

The point is that the post-trib rapture view is the best explanation not only because it accepts the natural language of Matt 24 in the sequence IT gives but also because it accepts Rev 14:14-16 just as it reads as well!


The point is that you can not simply spin this around as an "SDA" view -- it is in fact the classic historic Baptist view of well known authors like John Gill in the 18th century. Wanna know a "good baptist" position on the rapture? Accept the teaching of a good baptist like "John Gill" -- post-trib rapture.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Ed Edwards]

Here is the comentary of John Nelson Darby
on Matthew 24:

//The Lord's discourse is divided into
three parts:
-- 1. The general condition of the disciples and
of the world during the time of the testimony,
to the end of Mat_24:14;
--2. The period marked out by the fact that
the abomination of desolation stands
in the holy place (Mat_24:15);
-- 3. The Lord's coming and the gathering together
of the elect in Israel (Mat_24:29).//

In other words, post-tribs only folk
frequently claim that John Nelson
Darby invented pretrib rapture2 in 1820;
new age dispensationalism, and other
stuff. But he doesn't even thing,
as I do, that Matthew 24:31 is
the pretribualtion rapture2.

How about that, I've got one more
pretribulation rapture scripture
than even Darby could find

Of course, I was alive in 1964, the first
year mankind could do all the bad things that
people though only God could do to bring
His Wrath upon the unjust (AKA: Tribulation
"on the antichrist's people" Time Period).
Of course, the antichrist can't fake something
that only Messiah Jesus can pull of:
the pretribulation rapture2 of the Church Age
born-again, redeemed, elect saints!
AMEN & PRAISE THE LORD!!!

Caveat: This is NOT in response to BobRyan's
last post (#34). We cross posted.

 

[BobRyan]

If I said something about Darby - I did not mean to.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Obviously BobRyan and other post-trib only-ites
need some help. Here we go.

Ed, how can you say there are three questions
in Matthew 24 (Matthew's MoD /Mount Olivet Discourse)?
Don't you know that Mark 13:4 only has two questions
asked by the disciples at the MoD?
Don't 'you know that Luke21:7 only has one question
asked by the disciples at the Mod?

 

[Ed Edwards]

If I said something about Darby - I did not mean to.

I know.

That is why i said:
//post-tribs only folk
frequently claim that John Nelson
Darby invented pretrib rapture2 in 1820//

obviously some, like say 'BobRyan', don't
care so much how it got started, just read what
the Bible says..

Anyway, I studied my own eschatology
straight from a Bible* and didn't read a lot
of other works by other folks.

* it was frequently the KJV1769 Edition,
edited about 50 years before John Nelson's
writings which started about 1824.

It is the Baptist distinctive of
SOUL COMPETENCY all over again!

 

[BobRyan]

Obviously BobRyan and other post-trib only-ites
need some help. Here we go.

Ed, how can you say there are three questions
in Matthew 24 (Matthew's MoD /Mount Olivet Discourse)?
Don't you know that Mark 13:4 only has two questions
asked by the disciples at the MoD?
Don't 'you know that Luke21:7 only has one question
asked by the disciples at the Mod?

Well -- if it is a postTrib POV you are looking for then it is --
"Ed, don't you know that the disciples asked about the destruction of Jerusalem AND the coming of Christ which happens at THE END of the AGE" as Christ shows us in vs 27 through 31.

Now the disciples thought that the destruction of Jerusalem AND the end of the age AND the coming of Christ were all the same thing - for they could not imagine that God would have his temple destroyed again for anything but the end of the age - the coming of Christ. We know this because the thing that raises the question is JUST the comment about the destruction of the temple made by Christ.

Matt 24
Matthew 24
1 Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him.
2 And He said to them, ""Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.''


Here we see a clear reference to the future event in 70 A.D the destruction of Jerusalem.

Matt 24
3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, ""Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be [b]the sign of Your coming[/b], and of the end of the age[/b]?''

The disciples view the end of Jerusalem as “the end of all things” but to be certain they ask about specifics, the destruction of the temple, the signs of Christ’s coming AND the end of the age. (Not knowing if they are all the same event or not). However as we learn in Matt 24 the Coming of Christ IS the end of this age for that is exactly how John describes His Coming (Rev 19) and the END of all the wicked along with the resurrection of the saints (Rev 20).