How appropiate is it 4 a Pastor to....

OK we are back now. I talked with my husband and we decided since the head elder wife is a good friend of mine, we would talk to her and him and see if they plan and dealing with it. We will wait for a phone call or letter to see if they will take this seriously and if not we will know they never will.

I think I mentioned before that my husband and I were never in counceling about our sexual relations in fact it was never brought up and isn't an area we had problems with. The pastor said if the only problem we had in our marriage was how to deal with our son and working outside together than we should be very thankful that was it.

as far as the attention I would say I found it interesting that he would say such things and felt maybe since we (my husband and I) did have good relations I could help in that area understand his wife better. He said they had been to counceling but that it didn't work. I guess we felt sorry for the guy. We liked the church a lot and have friends there and felt if it went too far we would say something.

I have never been put in this situation before with a pastor although a few years back i had a friend who's husband tried to have sex with me while I slept over on the couch. I told her that night what he tried to do she admitted he was a dog and had done this to other friends, she went as far as calling him a rapist. It wasn't long before they both tried to play a Clinton on me and turn it around to be my fault. (I was sleeping on the couch minding my own business, am NOT the flirting type, am actually very conservative and dress very modestly if not tomboyish) Anyway I left and when I tried to call her she suggested we never talk again she is still with that dog to this day all because he makes the money and they have two kids together.

I am afraid this will happen again. The church will stand by him no matter what, because of his personality (which by the way is very charming) and so will his wife.

 

For the women on this board who are suggesting I had something to do with it wait a minute.

My husband didn't know a lot of what he said till after he came home one day with having lunch with him and telling me he spent the first 15 minutes talking about me and what he said about when they have sex his wife just lays there etc. That is when i shared some of the things he said to me that I could remember.

We were in counceling with some serious issues we really wanted to work on and to us that was MUCH more important and we felt we were adult enough and strong enough and smart enough to not allow him to take advantage of me. My husband and I have a very strong relationship when it comes to TRUST neither one of would ever cheat on the other we tell each other everything no matter what. My husband has seen through the years, 16 that is...that men in the church or in general are attracted to me, it happens often, not to this extent (except that one husband of my friends) but it does and he knows it. But again we do trust each other and would never do anything to hurt our marriage or our children. So I guess what I am saying is we didn't think it was that big of a deal. Now I realize it may not have been for us but MAY be for someone else, now or down the road.

It is hard to really judge someone unless you have gone through something like this. It's like saying how can a women be the victim of abuse or a child a victim of molestation (like his wife was) its called CONDITIONING and I believe those who do it know how to do it well.

Consider this information on the subject of Pastors who abuses, read the part where it says it is never the womens fault but always the pastors becasue he is the one who SETS THE BOUNDRIES!

 

I do not know how to do the edit thing it isn't working
so here is the link

http://www.snapnetwork.org/psych_effects/soul_stealing_1.htm


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OK I figured out the edit thing. here is part of the article

Pastoral abuse--pastors engaging in sexual or romantic relationships with their parishioners or counsels--is much more prevalent than is commonly supposed. Estimates exceed the 10 percent figure Rutter ascribes to male psychotherapists. The abuse often is seen by parisioners and denominational executives as something else--a problem with alcohol, for example, or an emotional or relationship problem of the pastor or the parishioner, or a parish conflict. A single pastor relating inti- mately with a single parishioner is typically seen as an acceptable and time-honored practice. I argue, however, that such intimate relating is always an unethical boundary violation and that it is always the pastor's responsibly to maintain the appropriate boundaries. As with rape, a pastor's sexual or romantic involvement with a parishioner is not primarily a matter of sex or sexuality but of power and control. For this reason I call it pastoral sexual abuse rather than "pastor-parishioner relations" or, worse, a matter of private activity between consenting adults (which is almost always how the perpetrator will describe it). Even when adultery is involved, unfaithfullness is not the primary issue. I have found that ministers enter into romantic or sexual relationships with parishioners primarily because there is an imbalance of power between them at the outset and because they need to reinforce and heighten the intensity of that power dynamic. This is need is driven by internal forces and Is reinforced by societaly conditioned expectations that women will function as a nurturing, sexual servant class.

WHY SHOULD these relationships be considered abuse? If both the minister and the parishioner are single (usually not the case), what's wrong with their havinging a relationship?................

 

I guess you are right in a way, but he started with the fact his wife had been abused by her father so my heart went out right then and there.

Lets not forget the grooming process. I guess every abused women and child in your eyes is alos at fault right? Did you read the article...guess not.

Does anyone else find it interesting that the men see my side and the abuse and the women do not? You'd think it would be the other way around. i wonder what that is all about?

 

While some of this is true in my case not all of it is. But here is what the article had to say about why women allow this to happen.

No one type of woman is predisposed to victimization, however. In battered women's work, we know from experience that, contrary to prevailing myths and stereotypes, because of the way both women and men are socialized, any woman can be bartered. There are some learned susceptibilities that incline women to overlook, forgive and tolerate a pastor's sexual exploitation: women's socialization to be polite, nonconfrontational and accepting of men's behavior; their training and design to heal men's wounds (these men often present themselves to women as needing their special love and healing); the sense of submissiveness as a Christian value, especially ingrained in churchwomen; and having one's identity defined by society as primarily sexual.

Particular situations add to a woman's vulnerabiiity, and the typical clergy perpetrator has an uncanny knack-some woman call it almost psychic in intensity-for zeroing in on women with these vulnerabilities. (partly because the intimate details are being shared with them in counseling): divorce, marital conflict or abuse; a husband who shows indifference or is frequently absent; a time of career confusion (his encouragement can be very important) decade passages (a powerful man can validate her attractiveness a new, young or problem child; a particular dedication to the church-she may be a lay minister, a member of church committees, a church employee or a seminary intern (this makes for additional potential loss if she confronts him or says no a personal history of family boundary violations--sexual. physical or psychological (this makes it harder for her to be clear i about what is inappropriate on his part power differentials such as a large age difference or his prominence in the community or denomination. Just about any life change that brings a woman in to talk with her pastor can be exploited as a gateway to satisfying his own pow er needs.

Many woman neither stop nor report pastoral abuse, for several reasons. First, they usually feel responsible. But as Fortune has written, even if a woman initiated the sexual contact out of her own need or vulnerability, the pastor, like a therapist, has the responsibility to maintain the appropriate boundary. It was not her fault. Society blames women for attracting men--rape survivors usually feel that they are the ones on trial. "She must have done something to provoke it." This is further compounded by myths and stereotypes portraying male pastors as sitting ducks for the seductive maneuvers of female parishioners.

Victim-blaming, however, can also take the more sophisticated guise of clinical diagnosis of the women. Such "diagnoses" can range from masochism and personality disorder to "co-dependency" to woman blaming once-removed: blaming the perpetrator's mother for poor bonding and causing narcissistic wounds. Such strategies divert attention from the only appropriate focus: holding the abuser accountable for the abuse.

Second, the woman may fail initially to stop or report abuse because she feels validated by it on some level. It's flattering; it makes her feel special. At vulnerable times especially, this is compelling. Third, over time her self-esteem is seriously battered down by this relationship. fourth, once the sexual relationship is begun, the men frequently engage in confusing behavior. Women have consistently reported extreme highs and lows in the relationship and an on-again, off-again quality. Promises of marriage are proffered and then withdrawn. Fifth, she may be sworn, with a religious intensity, to secrecy "The parish would never understand our kind of love." In the wont cases this opens the door for multiple relationships with several parishioners at once.

The woman may not want to hurt his career. She may love him and believe he needs her. She may feel that the good times make the bad times worth it--or that the good times represent the "real him." She may be unwilling to hurt his wife and family or the church's reputation.

Once a certain determination to think about leaving has taken hold in her, however, fear keeps her stuck. She fears that no one will believe her when it's her word against his. She fears that she will be the one held respon- sible. She fears losing her church, community, her personal reputation and, if she is employed by the church, her professional reputation. She fears his retaliation-- sometimes within the sphere of personal and church life, but also sometimes in the form of physical violence, rape, or threats of violence.

Most chilling, she fears his retaliation on the spiritual level. This aspect became increasingly clear to me in work with the survivors' group. It is difficult for others to comprehend the sheer terror that accompanies this form

of abuse. But often because of the image of charismatic spiritual power that these men have asserted and fostered. the women's terror is akin to actually being cursed or damned. Sometimes this kind of threat is made explicit by the abuser. Its power is clearly demonic in nature and intensity-victims fear that their very souls will be stolen...........................http://www.snapnetwork.org/psych_effects/soul_stealing_2.htm