How can One be Hyper Calvinist IF people perish w/o the Gospel?

[JesusFan]

Exactly. A few months back someone asked me what I thought a hyper-Calvinist is, and I answered a Calvinist who is consistent with his doctrine. I answered that a Calvinist is someone who is inconsistent with his own doctrine and embarrassed by it. They came after me like a swarm of bees, all claiming to be consistent, and yet all denying that the logical conclusion of Calvinism makes God the author of sin.

But it is true, hyper- Calvinism is simply consistent Calvinism and was even called such in the past. Google "consistent Calvinism" without quotes and see for yourself.

Nope...

Hyper Cal is what Universalism is to Armenion Theology...

Both are extremes, doctrine pushed to stretching point...

I am a "moderate" calvinist, so know Hyper NOT "real" version of it!

 

[Winman]

Nope...

Hyper Cal is what Universalism is to Armenion Theology...

Both are extremes, doctrine pushed to stretching point...

I am a "moderate" calvinist, so know Hyper NOT "real" version of it!

First, Universalism came out of Calvinist theology, not Arminian. The belief is that if a sovereign God wills that all men be saved, then all men will be saved.

You don't have to believe me, simply Google "Consistent Calvinism" and you will find dozens of articles by both Calvinists and non-Calvinists. I just read three or four articles in the last 30 minutes. And you will find that Consistent Calvinism almost always applies to hyper-Calvinism. Many hyper- Calvinists were called consistent Calvinists, especially in the 19th century. Why were they called this? Because they were truly consistent with the doctrines of Calvinism and carried it to it's logical conclusions.
I just read a forum by Calvinists who were discussing Vincent Cheung's "The Author of Sin" where Cheung openly writes that God is the author of sin. Some Calvinists disagreed, but said they admired him for his CONSISTENCY.

Now, what does that tell you? That tells you that Calvinists themselves recognize hyper-Calvinism as being consistent with the 5 points of Calvinism.

I am not making this up, read for yourself, there are numerous articles easily found on this.

 

[Rippon]

...because if you take calvinism to it's logical conclusion you arrive at hyper-calvinism.

So,do you wish to admit that Arminianism,taken to its logical extremes would be Pelagianism?

 

[Luke2427]

While I might label Luke and Aaron as being overly aggressive in their Calvinism they are not hyper. Both, as far as I know, do not ignore the clear teaching of the Word to witness to the lost.

Thanks... I think.

I figure "over agressive" really translates to forth-coming and unapologetic and willing to address the hard issues related to Calvinism.

But you are correct. Most people who toss around the ad hominem "hyper-cal" do not know what they are talking about.

Rarely does anyone with any real theological training call anyone on bb hyper-cal.

It's always these guys who have no nameable theology and no real idea what terms like these mean.

I believe in "duty faith". All men everywhere are commanded to repent and responsible to repent.

I am a compatabalist.

I am aggressively and passionately evangelistic. We baptize regularly at our place and give thousands to missions each year.

I preach the Gospel and compel men to come to Christ today.

No one who believes and practices these things can be called a hyper-cal by any intelligent person.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Thanks... I think.

I figure "over agressive" really translates to forth-coming and unapologetic and willing to address the hard issues related to Calvinism.

But you are correct. Most people who toss around the ad hominem "hyper-cal" do not know what they are talking about.

Rarely does anyone with any real theological training call anyone on bb hyper-cal.

It's always these guys who have no nameable theology and no real idea what terms like these mean.

I believe in "duty faith". All men everywhere are commanded to repent and responsible to repent.

I am a compatabalist.

I am aggressively and passionately evangelistic. We baptize regularly at our place and give thousands to missions each year.

I preach the Gospel and compel men to come to Christ today.

No one who believes and practices these things can be called a hyper-cal by any intelligent person.

Well said Brother Luke, well said:thumbs:

 

[webdog]

So,do you wish to admit that Arminianism,taken to its logical extremes would be Pelagianism?

No as they are unrelated. The logical conclusion to arminianism is works based salvation, not man's condition. Surely you can do better.

 

[webdog]

Thanks... I think.

I figure "over agressive" really translates to forth-coming and unapologetic and willing to address the hard issues related to Calvinism.

But you are correct. Most people who toss around the ad hominem "hyper-cal" do not know what they are talking about.

Rarely does anyone with any real theological training call anyone on bb hyper-cal.

It's always these guys who have no nameable theology and no real idea what terms like these mean.

I believe in "duty faith". All men everywhere are commanded to repent and responsible to repent.

I am a compatabalist.

I am aggressively and passionately evangelistic. We baptize regularly at our place and give thousands to missions each year.

I preach the Gospel and compel men to come to Christ today.

No one who believes and practices these things can be called a hyper-cal by any intelligent person.

hyper-cal is now an ad hominem...yet your many labels you like to apply are not? Hypocrite.

Rarely does anyone with any real theological training put sin squarely on God's shoulder as you do. Those in your own camp separate from you with equally "real theological training" and intelligence...while realizing what it is, hyper-calvinism. Me thinks you hold to an awful high view of your education compared to everyone else.

 

[Rippon]

hyper-cal is now an ad hominem...yet your many labels you like to apply are not? Hypocrite.

Rarely does anyone with any real theological training put sin squarely on God's shoulder as you do. Those in your own camp separate from you with equally "real theological training" and intelligence...while realizing what it is, hyper-calvinism. Me thinks you hold to an awful high view of your education compared to everyone else.

Webdog,what in Luke's post #24 do you disagree with? I don't get your anger.

 

[psalms109:31]

Gospel

What Gospel is preached the same we here on the BB?

Surgeon tells us that Calvinism is the Gospel, what did he mean by that. I know he isn't a hyper-cal?

Universalism want nothing to do with Armenian belief, because Armenian believe you have to hear the Gospel and believe to be regenerate to have life. Jesus words provides two doors believe in Jesus,with Jesus being the door and be saved or not and and continue to condemnation no universalism. Universalism believe men are totally depraved and can't make a move toward God, so God will have to intervene for all men so they can be saved.

 

[psalms109:31]

Universalism

Nope...

Hyper Cal is what Universalism is to Armenion Theology...

Both are extremes, doctrine pushed to stretching point...

I am a "moderate" calvinist, so know Hyper NOT "real" version of it!

Here is an example of an universalist and his beliefs

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=66821&highlight=universalism

 

[Calv1]

IF the Bible, specifically the Gospel, is the power of God unto salavation...
IF "faith comes by hearing, hearing of the Bible"

HOW can a person biblically speaking consider themselves being a hyper Calvinist?
if by that term, means God saves his own, no need to evangelise/have missions?

You are starting with a erroneous notion. We clearly are to evangelize.

The gospel is the power of God unto salvation, but how so? Are you saying all who hear the gospel are saved? Doesn't the bible clearly teach that some are "Granted Repentance"? Doesn't Jesus say "You are UNABLE to come to Me unless the Father draws", doesn't the bible say "I will have mercy on who I will have mercy, and I will HARDEN whom I will harden"

And yes, the Greek word is HARDEN. People assume Harden means God activally creating evil in a heart, but that is not it at all. God hardens mens hearts by simply removing His grace, something He is not obligated to give any.

When we see that God spared not the angels when they sinned, and when we see that a sinner deserves Hell, we should wonder not why God saves some, but why He saves any.

By the way, I'm not a "Hyper" Calvinist.