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How did David Kill Goliath?
- Thread starter Reynolds
- Start date
Joseph shall add
Member
David did not need a sword to kill the enemy. As he was very skilled with the sling. He had killed all his life with the sling, remember the bear and the lion. The removal of the head was to bring shame on the enemy and terror into there hearts. This not a question of weather David killed him with the stone or a sword. This is why you do not read just the part of the bible you are reading. You read all and then compare. David declared he would kill Goliath in the name of the Lord. He invoked Gods name covenant the stone them meet its target. So the Lord was with David in defeating the enemy.
Garrett20
Member
I agree with Reynolds.
The NKJV, ESV, and NIV all clearly state that the stone KILLED Goliath, then he proceeded to lop off his head with his own sword. (See 1 Samuel 17:50). The ESV and WEB even state that there "was no sword in the hand of David."
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
The King James does not say the stone killed him in 1 Samuel 17 . It says the stone "sunk" in his forehead and he fell face first. but if Mr. Goliath was laying there breathing, he was likely not long for this world; ever heard of what "bleeding on the brain" does? At any rate, the King James says that it was "the sword" that "slew" Goliath, but the "stone" was step#1 in the process and made it all possible. Actually God made it possible.
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
You're right; I see that now. Hmmm. Well, like I said, with a rock sunk in his skull, he wasn't likely to survive for long. Maybe it just means he "finished him off" 
Well duh! I am aware of every startling revelation you thought I was too ignorant to know. It still does not change the fact that a legitimate question was asked.
The KJV says "So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David."
Yes, but the KJV and ESV also clearly state that Goliath was killed with the sword.
"Therefore David ran and stood over the Philistine, took his sword and drew it out of its sheath and killed him, and cut off his head with it. ..." NKJV
"Then David ran and stood over the Philistine and took his sword and drew it out of its sheath and killed him and cut off his head with it. ... " ESV
The NIV fudges, allowing the possibility that the sword did not deal the death blow:
"David ran and stood over him. He took hold of the Philistine’s sword and drew it from the sheath. After he killed him, he cut off his head with the sword. ... "
Actually, that's a prime question because it relates to the theological thrust of the story.
Barnone
New Member
I have enjoyed all the comments. The KJV says: 1Sa 17:51 Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled. Note my bold "stood upon the Philistine..." My opinion is that he didn't stand over him as some have said, but rather "climbed" up on him and pulled out the sword and "off with the head." I have to picture that in my mind that young David, not that big, evidently, climbing up on the giant and maybe looking around like "king of the hill" and then pull that sword out etc.
I think there is more to this though: The giants in our lives can be knocked down with stones but if we don't cut their heads off they will come back and give us trouble. It is a biblical principle that I have applied often to people who have had issues they struggled with, and yes, they knock down the giant but left alone it will come back to life. Kill it and it won't. How you kill it is the spiritual issue of using the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God to claim the victory.
I think there is more to this though: The giants in our lives can be knocked down with stones but if we don't cut their heads off they will come back and give us trouble. It is a biblical principle that I have applied often to people who have had issues they struggled with, and yes, they knock down the giant but left alone it will come back to life. Kill it and it won't. How you kill it is the spiritual issue of using the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God to claim the victory.
Isn't it amazing what a simple question from a child can bring about? You have to love the simplicity of our children that causes us to dig deeper for not just their benefit, but ours as well. It almost becomes an obsession doesn't it? Staying with the topic, has anyone ever done research or discovered the technique used in the sling and the actual velocity of such a stone in this act? It's an interesting little study for kids when going through the life of David.
I saw the sling analyzed on a television show about ancient weapons. They were smashing pig skulls with it. What surprised me was that it does not launch small stones. It launches rocks a lot bigger than golf balls.
KJV = correct translation
KJV only can find its way into anything.
David and Goliath, Galleria Borghese, Rome by Michelangelo (1573-1610)
The painting found itself on the cover of Paul Borgman's excellent book, David, Saul, & God, Rediscovering an Ancient Story [LINK]
Paul Borgman has exceptional observational insights in the study of these characters.
David, 1: "the Lord does not save by sword and spear" (I, 17:45, 47; 17:39, 50-51)
Saul, 1: "Saul threw the spear" to kill David (I, 18:10-11; 19:9-10)
Saul, 2: "Saul threw the spear to kill his son Jonsthan (I, 20:33)
Saul, 3: Saul "put to the sword" Israelite priests (I, 21:1-6)
David, 2: Jonathan yields his sword (I, 17:50-51; 18:4)
David, 3: Three refusals to wield sword and spear against enemies (I, 24-26)
David, 4: Appropriate use of sword and spear (II, 30)
Saul, 4: Inappropriate use of sword: Saul's suicide (I, 31)
"... How remarkable, this victory: "David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, striking down the Philistine and killing him; there was no sword in David's hand" (I, 17:50).
Nonetheless, a sword "in the name of the Lord" can be useful" "David ran and stood over the Philistine; he grasped his sword, drew it out of its sheath, and killed him; them he cut off his head with it" (I, 17:45; 51). Goliath's weighty spear does him no good, while his sword is used by the sword-less and spear-less David to take Goliath's life and sever his head." (Borgman, P. pp. 65-66)
Rob
As a former USN corpsman & civilian paramedic, and, having seen what the type of sling used by David & other Israelis, especially Benjaminites, are capable of, I believe Goliath was dead when he hit the ground.
I've seen several shows on the old Military Channel which explored ancient weapons & their effectiveness, & here's what I learned about slings. On one show, there was a man who used the same type of sling Dave likely used, & he was quite accurate slinging 3/4" steel balls with it. He was easily able to penetrate plywood with it.
He and an archaeologist reviewed Dave's feat. They reminded us that david had even killed a lion with his sling & a club, his being only a lad at the time. He had selected his stones from the bed of Kidron Brook, likely carefully choosing smooth, rounded, heavy stones he could sling accurately, that were at least an inch in diameter. As for Dave's ability? Most likely, he practiced for hours while caring for the sheep, having nothing better to do. He was most likely as good as any other Israeli with a sling, & they had a reputation among their neighbors as being deadly with slings.
A stone of at least an inch in diameter striking one's forehead with enough force to sink in would certainly kill a person. And let's not forget about GOD, who guided Dave's aim. Most likely, G got quite close to Dave before Dave let fly, so his stone struck with full force.
My conclusion: Dave's slung stone killed Goliath.
BTW, "Goliath" is a HEBREW word which means "splendor", and was likely an Israeli handle for that giant. That explains, in part, why the giant that Elhanan killed years later was also called "Goliath" by some writers. Also, the other name Scripture calls this 2nd giant, "Lahmi", is also a Hebrew word beaning "my bread". (Perhaps Doc Cas can clarify the meanings of those Hebrew words.) Scripture & secular history are silent about the PHILISTINE names of those giants.
I've seen several shows on the old Military Channel which explored ancient weapons & their effectiveness, & here's what I learned about slings. On one show, there was a man who used the same type of sling Dave likely used, & he was quite accurate slinging 3/4" steel balls with it. He was easily able to penetrate plywood with it.
He and an archaeologist reviewed Dave's feat. They reminded us that david had even killed a lion with his sling & a club, his being only a lad at the time. He had selected his stones from the bed of Kidron Brook, likely carefully choosing smooth, rounded, heavy stones he could sling accurately, that were at least an inch in diameter. As for Dave's ability? Most likely, he practiced for hours while caring for the sheep, having nothing better to do. He was most likely as good as any other Israeli with a sling, & they had a reputation among their neighbors as being deadly with slings.
A stone of at least an inch in diameter striking one's forehead with enough force to sink in would certainly kill a person. And let's not forget about GOD, who guided Dave's aim. Most likely, G got quite close to Dave before Dave let fly, so his stone struck with full force.
My conclusion: Dave's slung stone killed Goliath.
BTW, "Goliath" is a HEBREW word which means "splendor", and was likely an Israeli handle for that giant. That explains, in part, why the giant that Elhanan killed years later was also called "Goliath" by some writers. Also, the other name Scripture calls this 2nd giant, "Lahmi", is also a Hebrew word beaning "my bread". (Perhaps Doc Cas can clarify the meanings of those Hebrew words.) Scripture & secular history are silent about the PHILISTINE names of those giants.