How did the various kind of humans (or "races??") come about?

[mr. messy]

A believer asked me that question this week. This believer (first name of Al) referred the unbeliever to the Tower of Babel. When God confused the languages, people separated and moved apart.

To me, it seems that the differences came about by heredity. Dictionary meaning=..."(1.) The process by which characteristics are passed on genetically from an animal or plant to its offspring. (2). all the characteristics passed on in this way."

I looked up Gregor Mendel in the dictionary. It shows "1822-1884, Austrian monk and botanist whose experiments in heredity were the foundation for the science of genetics."

Did the "whites, the yellows, the reds, the blacks" [and others] all come from Adam and Eve? I believe that the answer is "yes."

The next question is "how did the differences develop?"

I need a simple answer, please, to pass on to my brother "Al."

The Bible may just assume the differences and may not explain it to us.

If this is the case, then could you please tell how "genetics" worked for the different skin color, different facial features, etc.


Thanks for your help. "mr. messy."

 

[Bro. James]

The gene pool in the world today originates with Adam. The pool narrows somewhat at the flood of Noah. Then there are Shem, Ham, and Japheth. What we see today is a considerable mix of the original eight souls which survived The Flood.

To contend for purity of race after many generations of cross-breeding is an absurd notion. There just are not many "pedigreed humans" left--probably not any.

There is a spiritual segregation taught in the Scripture but ethnic cross breeding was practiced.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[just-want-peace]

Read the book "One Blood" by (I have no idea right now, ) but it give some real good thoughts on this topic!

 

[Dr. Bob]

All are humans, one race. All have exactly the same blood.

The genetic variations from heredity explain the ethnic diversity of our race.

 

[Paul of Eugene]

It would be interesting to see if the amount of genetic variation we currently have in the human race could have developed from two individuals 6000 years ago. Is that possible? What about 10000 years?

 

[Bro. James]

If God is possible--what He did is possible.

He could have done it in a femto second.

We are already in the woods--Do we need to be re-classifying celluloid cells? "The axe(of God) is laid at the base of the tree". "Time" is running out--where will we spend eternity, where there is no time? Heaven and hell are not options--they are realities.

More to the point: our common ancestors, Adam and Eve(not Adam and Steve, or "Homodanthropus" and Lucy) provided the gene pool which is existant on this globe--Adam also provided the depraved nature which we all exhibit on a daily basis most everywhere on the planet.

Jesus paid it all.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[Brownov]

mr. messy,

The differences would have developed because of the hidden attributes in Adam and Eve's DNA. Each person carries within their cells certain characteristics, which determine things like eye color, hair color, and all of the other details about your body. Your eyes may be black, but you may also have the genetic material for green eyes, but we distinguish between dominant and recessive genes. Your dominant genes say "black" while your recessive genes say "green". This causes you to have black eyes, but since you can have many children, you have the opportunity to pass on either black or green eyes to your kids. This is how genetic variation works in a very simplified form.

Adam and Eve would have started with all of the possible genetic variations in their genes. As their children reproduced, each generation recieves only a portion of the total from each parent (since the mother donates half and the father donates half). Since you can't pass on what you don't have, the child who did not recieve the green eye gene, cannot have children with green eyes.

With each successive generation, this process becomes more and more complex. God separates the languages, and people scatter into language groups. Then you factor in genetic mutations which destroy information and you lose some more options within each group.

There are also some environmental factors which contribute to the process. Say you are a fair skinned individual born near the equator. The likelihood that you (or your offspring) will suffer from skin cancer is extremely high. If you are dark skinned and you are born near the arctic, your skin will not recieve enough direct sunlight and you will die from a Vitamin D deficiency. Either way, you are much more likely to die because of your environment, therefore, dark skin genes become predominate near the equator and light skin becomes predominate near the poles

Hope this helps

 

[Brownov]

by the way, if you just compare black eye dominant genes to green eye recessive genes in an overly simplified formula you are conservatively looking at 548,397,397,200,000,000,000,000,000 possible combinations give or take a few trillion. And that is only comparing 2 choices (the human genome is extremely complex, offering thousands of possible variations within each person.

 

[Helen]

Popped in to see how things were going.

Mr. Messy, the genetic differences giving rise to 'races' are so incredibly small that there is more diversity genetically within a 'race' than between two of them.

It is important to note that most characteristics in both humans and animals are NOT a matter of simple genetics. This is a field of ongoing reseach and it is becoming apparent that there is something within the cell membrane or possibly one of the organelles which contributes to the genetics. It is also important to note that it is not a matter of one gene per characteristic as was thought some time ago. We are understanding that there are a variety of genes involved in most characteristics, and thus their relative numbers, the timing, and other factors play a great deal to do with how much melanin is expressed in the skin, whether the nose is a great honking thing or a tiny little squished thing, whether the front teeth have ridges or not, whether the ears fold this way or that way, how long the fingers and toes are, how thick or thin the lips are. These, and many more seen characteristics are a mix and match game. For instance Ethiopians have almost pitch black skin and thin noses, thin lips, and generally long fingers and toes. Compare this to many American blacks who can be very light in color, or dark, have thick lips, or thin, straight noses, or flat...you see?

There is one race -- the human race. Skin color probably varied almost from the beginning. We know that, linguistically, the word Ham (Noah's son) meant 'burnt.' Was he quite dark? Possibly. However there are those descended from the Hamite line who are quite light and those descended from either of the other lines who are quite dark.

In other words, there is no genetic or scientific basis for designating 'races' of human beings in terms of descent.

That being said, the fact that the various shades and shapes have traditionally chosen to interbreed within themselves has produced some characteristics which are prevalent within their group, such as sickle cell among blacks. This however, is a matter of degeneration via mutation that gets passed on within a group, not a matter of original differences.

I hope that helps a bit.

I'm almost never here anymore, but feel free to email me or PM me if you have questions.

Helen

 

[just-want-peace]

I'm almost never here anymore, --

Been missing you Helen; need someone with the background to stand up to the "Science is god" crowd.

If I didn't trust the Word, their arguments just may be compelling; but I'm taking God's word over their "education". Afraid some, that aren't believers, may be led astray!

 

[UTEOTW]

Originally posted by Brownov:
Adam and Eve would have started with all of the possible genetic variations in their genes. As their children reproduced, each generation recieves only a portion of the total from each parent (since the mother donates half and the father donates half). Since you can't pass on what you don't have, the child who did not recieve the green eye gene, cannot have children with green eyes.

There has to be more to it than this.

If you assume that Eve's DNA was rather different than Adam's, then you still only have a total of four possible variants of of each gene (each allele). There is quite a bit more variation than this.

 

[Bro. James]

More to it than this--for sure.

Whence the DNA from dirt?

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[UTEOTW]

Originally posted by Bro. James:
More to it than this--for sure.

Whence the DNA from dirt?

I think you know what I meant but let me give an example just in case.

There is a gene known as CYP2D6. It makes a protein known as cytochrome P450-2D6. There are 43 known variations (or alleles) of this gene.** Now, you could not have started with more than 4 variations. Maybe fewer. So there must be a mechanism for generating useful DNA variations to produce the other 39 or more variants.

This is just one example using just one gene. There are large numbers of variants of many, many genes.

** Ingelman-Sundberg M, Daly AK, Nebert DW. Homepage of the Human Cytochrome P450 (CYP) Allele Nomenclature Committee. http://www.imm.ki.se/CYPalleles

 

[Baptist Vine]

Originally posted by mr. messy:
A believer asked me that question this week. This believer (first name of Al) referred the unbeliever to the Tower of Babel. When God confused the languages, people separated and moved apart.

To me, it seems that the differences came about by heredity. Dictionary meaning=..."(1.) The process by which characteristics are passed on genetically from an animal or plant to its offspring. (2). all the characteristics passed on in this way."

I looked up Gregor Mendel in the dictionary. It shows "1822-1884, Austrian monk and botanist whose experiments in heredity were the foundation for the science of genetics."

Did the "whites, the yellows, the reds, the blacks" [and others] all come from Adam and Eve? I believe that the answer is "yes."

The next question is "how did the differences develop?"

I need a simple answer, please, to pass on to my brother "Al."

The Bible may just assume the differences and may not explain it to us.

If this is the case, then could you please tell how "genetics" worked for the different skin color, different facial features, etc.


Thanks for your help. "mr. messy."

 

[Baptist Vine]

Originally posted by mr. messy:
A believer asked me that question this week. This believer (first name of Al) referred the unbeliever to the Tower of Babel. When God confused the languages, people separated and moved apart.

To me, it seems that the differences came about by heredity. Dictionary meaning=..."(1.) The process by which characteristics are passed on genetically from an animal or plant to its offspring. (2). all the characteristics passed on in this way."

I looked up Gregor Mendel in the dictionary. It shows "1822-1884, Austrian monk and botanist whose experiments in heredity were the foundation for the science of genetics."

Did the "whites, the yellows, the reds, the blacks" [and others] all come from Adam and Eve? I believe that the answer is "yes."

The next question is "how did the differences develop?"

I need a simple answer, please, to pass on to my brother "Al."

The Bible may just assume the differences and may not explain it to us.

If this is the case, then could you please tell how "genetics" worked for the different skin color, different facial features, etc.


Thanks for your help. "mr. messy."

The reason for the amount of human variation that does exist is explained by the same mechanism evolutionists use to explain speciation: mutations, adaptation in response to environmental factors. Except this mechanism, while valid for variation, cannot have created life, and cannot make new life, or kinds. It can create variation only. It's a natural mechanism.

Most Christians are probably reluctant to acknowledge this, since they probably believe that if they acknowledge mutations or adaptation in response to environmental factors, this is tantamount to admitting evolution, but really it is not.

It's true that all the so called racial differences in humans are not really genetically significant, ie there is only one race, the human race, but your question about why racial differences exist, superficial thought they may be, still deserves an answer, and the answer, I think, can be found in the mechanism that sees adaptations over time in response to environmental factors.

 

[UTEOTW]

Originally posted by Baptist Vine:
The reason for the amount of human variation that does exist is explained by the same mechanism evolutionists use to explain speciation: mutations, adaptation in response to environmental factors. Except this mechanism, while valid for variation, cannot have created life, and cannot make new life, or kinds. It can create variation only. It's a natural mechanism.

Most Christians are probably reluctant to acknowledge this, since they probably believe that if they acknowledge mutations or adaptation in response to environmental factors, this is tantamount to admitting evolution, but really it is not.

It's true that all the so called racial differences in humans are not really genetically significant, ie there is only one race, the human race, but your question about why racial differences exist, superficial thought they may be, still deserves an answer, and the answer, I think, can be found in the mechanism that sees adaptations over time in response to environmental factors.

What types of changes do you think are allowed by this type of genetic variation? How far can it go? Can the adaptations include novel genes and functions?

 

[Brownov]

UTEOTW,
I believe that I did say that I was oversimplifying things a bit, but Mr. Messy was asking for a non-technical answer. That is what I have tried to supply.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by UTEOTW:
What types of changes do you think are allowed by this type of genetic variation? How far can it go? Can the adaptations include novel genes and functions?

Yes. Genetic variation is happening all the time primarily in two well documented mechanisms.

1) Crossing of chromosomes in meiosis which is the process where sperm and eggs are generated.

2) Mutations in replication which is commonly caused by things like chemicals and radiation as well as naturally occurring situations.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by mr. messy:
Did the "whites, the yellows, the reds, the blacks" [and others] all come from Adam and Eve? I believe that the answer is "yes."

The next question is "how did the differences develop?"

Skin colour is largely a function of a pigment in our body called melanin. Its function is to absorb radiation from the sun to minimize mutations to our DNA which would cause things like cancer.

Those folks from climates with more sunshine have higher levels of melanin resulting in darker skin while folks from climates with less sunshine have lower levels of melanin resulting in lighter skin. When we tan in the sun, it is our body's natural production of melanin that darkens our skin.

Other cultural and physical differences are much more complicated in their development. Usually they have something to do with the type of food that grew well agriculturally in their region.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by Brownov:
Adam and Eve would have started with all of the possible genetic variations in their genes.

As Baptist Vine already pointed out, this is not true.

Every human only has two copies of any single gene, one from their mother and one from their father. Each of Adam and Eve's children recieved one copy of each gene from Adam and one copy of each gene from Eve.

The resulting variations were caused by the mechanisms I mentioned above.