How did you discover the Bible teaches a pre-trib rapture?

[Lodic]

Darby got his futurist teaching from Edward Irving who said in his morning watch magazine that he first preached on dispensationalism on Christmas Day in 1825 and next the same day the following year, The Irvinites taught the rapture would be in 1833. Irving's teaching was before Margaret McDonald made her so called prophecy.

Interesting. I'd never heard that, but certainly have no reason to doubt you. Then Irving was the first to preach any form of dispensationalism / the rapture?

 

[David Kent]

Interesting. I'd never heard that, but certainly have no reason to doubt you. Then Irving was the first to preach any form of dispensationalism / the rapture?

As far as I know. The Morning Watch Magazine is available on Google books. You will have to plough through them till you come to it, which is what I was doing when I found it. I was just looking through thre copies to see what they taught, not looking for anything in particular.

 

[David Kent]

The Irvingites ran annual conferences on prophecy at Albury in London.l Amongst those attending was Lady Powerscourt, who then ran similar conferences in Powerscout Ireland. Among thosae attemnding were Irving and Darby. I seem to remember reading that Darby once considered marrying Lady Powercourt.

 

[John of Japan]

Interesting. I'd never heard that, but certainly have no reason to doubt you. Then Irving was the first to preach any form of dispensationalism / the rapture?

No, that would be Isaac Watts (1674-1748). Here is a link to a scholarly article about that (also linked here for David): http://scottaniol.com/wp-content/uploads/Aniol2.pdf

That was not long after covenant theology was being invented by Kaspar Olevianus (1536-1587), making the charge irrelevant that dispensation theology is wrong simply because it is a recent invention.

The age of a theology is never a proof as to its falsity or truth. The doctrine of verbal-plenary inspiration was not fully developed until Gaussen's book in the 19th century, though Turretin, the Reformation writer, approached it. But I would say the great majority of us here on the BB would hold to verbal-plenary inspiration. God raises up theologians for certain doctrines when it is necessary in salvation history, not necessarily before then.

 

[John of Japan]

Mauro was not an enemy of anyone. He says he is not attacking anyone, but just the teaching. That is not being an enemy.

Yes, but here is what he wrote about Scofield (from your quote):

And among those who heard and were captivated by it (for truly there is some strange fascination inherent in it) was the late Dr. C. I. Scofield, who was so infatuated with it that he proceeded forthwith to bring out a new edition of the entire Bible, having for its distinctive feature that the peculiar doctrines of this new dispensationalism are woven into the very warp and woof thereof, in the form of notes, headings, subheadings and summaries. There is no doubt whatever that it is mainly to this cleverly executed work that dispensationalism owes its present vogue. For without that aid it doubtless would be clearly seen by all who give close attention to the doctrine, that it is a humanly contrived system that has been imposed upon the Bible, and not a scheme of doctrine derived from it. Gospel of the Kindom 1927

Sounds like an enemy to me.

But at the most, this is just an opinion. Mauro gives no historical evidence for his charge that Scofield got his system from Darby: letters, books, articles, direct quotes, etc. And I've shown how different Scofield's system was from Darby's. It's easy to make charges without proof. For example: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is from outer space. I'll get the proof later, but trust me; just listen to her.

 

[John of Japan]

I have read a number of times that Isaac Watts was a dispensationalist but I have never seen any quotes. Does anyone have any?
PLEASE.

Here is a link to a scholarly journal article that proves it:
http://scottaniol.com/wp-content/uploads/Aniol2.pdf

Also in the article it mentions the dispensational theologies of Pierre Poiret (1646–1719) and John Edwards (1637–1716). So, in a word, it is contrary to history that Darby started the whole thing.

 

[Lodic]

No, that would be Isaac Watts.

Thank you.

 

[John of Japan]

I did write a lengthy answer to this but it seems to have disappeard.

Yes if you read that page, it gives four different views, it seems you havn't read it.

Granted. But I wasn't talking about just the book of Revelation. (And I did skim the article.)

 

[John of Japan]

If anyone wants to study the scholarly views of the pre-trib, pre-wrath and post-trib views, some well-known scholars weigh in with this book: Three Views on the Rapture (2nd ed.), with contributors Craig Blaising, Alan Hultberg, and Douglas Moo.

Here is the Amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/Three-Views-Rapture-Pretribulation-Posttribulation/dp/0310277205

 

[John of Japan]

Thank you.

Any time. I like your style.

 

[Lodic]

Any time. I like your style.

Likewise. BTW - I must confess that I just ran across your earlier response with the link to the PDF "Watts" article. I saved it to my PC, and plan to read it later today. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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