How Did Your Denomination Improve a Country

[JarJo]

Hi,
We all know a lot about how Catholicism changed countries when the people converted to Catholicism. There are lots of examples in areas like latin america, Phillipines, Ireland, etc. I would like to get a better understanding of other denominations by comparing what they do to a country when they convert the people and the country becomes predominately their own denomination, so we can see the real practical differences in how people live our their specific interpretation of Christianity.
I'll start with an example of a country that converted to Catholicism, and show how I believe it affected that country, for better or for worse, and how that country then lived out its new faith.

I would suggest the following format:

1. Name of the country that was converted
2. Name of the denomination that the majority of the country was converted to
3. Description of the country's practices and culture before the conversion
4. Description of the country's practices and culture after the conversion

I'll post my example in the next post, and look forward to reading posts from others.

 

[The Biblicist]

Hi,
We all know a lot about how Catholicism changed countries when the people converted to Catholicism. There are lots of examples in areas like latin america, Phillipines, Ireland, etc. I would like to get a better understanding of other denominations by comparing what they do to a country when they convert the people and the country becomes predominately their own denomination, so we can see the real practical differences in how people live our their specific interpretation of Christianity.
I'll start with an example of a country that converted to Catholicism, and show how I believe it affected that country, for better or for worse, and how that country then lived out its new faith.

I would suggest the following format:

1. Name of the country that was converted
2. Name of the denomination that the majority of the country was converted to
3. Description of the country's practices and culture before the conversion
4. Description of the country's practices and culture after the conversion

I'll post my example in the next post, and look forward to reading posts from others.

Did you mention that the major means of Catholic conversion was the "sword" rather than the Bible?

America was transformed by Baptists. Baptists introduced the very first colony where there was LIBERTY of consience for all to worship according to your conscience.

Orange county Virigina sent a man to represent the Baptists in the Contentiial congregess that was instrumental in including the bill of rights and particular the right of religious liberty.

Thomas Jefferson's view of the a proper government was by attending a Baptist business meeting and seeing demoncracy under law (bible).

America's liberty of conscience is tracable to the influence of Baptist making it the greatest nation upon the face of the earth.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

.......and if that is not enough, it was the Baptists that went on to create the internet. Top that!:thumbs:

 

[JarJo]

Did you mention that the major means of Catholic conversion was the "sword" rather than the Bible?

America was transformed by Baptists. Baptists introduced the very first colony where there was LIBERTY of consience for all to worship according to your conscience.

Orange county Virigina sent a man to represent the Baptists in the Contentiial congregess that was instrumental in including the bill of rights and particular the right of religious liberty.

Thomas Jefferson's view of the a proper government was by attending a Baptist business meeting and seeing demoncracy under law (bible).

America's liberty of conscience is tracable to the influence of Baptist making it the greatest nation upon the face of the earth.

That's really awesome. I didn't know that Virginia had converted to Baptist. I found this nice quote on wikipedia:

Helped by the First Great Awakening and numerous itinerant self-proclaimed missionaries, by the 1760s Baptists were drawing Virginians, especially poor white farmers, into a new, much more democratic religion. Slaves were welcome at the services and many became Baptists at this time. Baptist services were highly emotional; the only ritual was baptism, which was applied by immersion (not sprinkling like the Anglicans) only to adults. Opposed to the low moral standards prevalent in the colony, the Baptists strictly enforced their own high standards of personal morality, with special concern for sexual misconduct, heavy drinking, frivolous spending, missing services, cursing, and revelry. Church trials were held frequently and members who did not submit to disciple were expelled.[32]

Historians have debated the implications of the religious rivalries for the American Revolution. The Baptist farmers did introduce a new egalitarian ethic that largely displaced the semi-aristocratic ethic of the Anglican planters. However, both groups supported the Revolution.

:thumbs: Thanks for the edifying post!

 

[JarJo]

1. Name of the country that was converted
2. Name of the denomination that the majority of the country was converted to
3. Description of the country's practices and culture before the conversion
4. Description of the country's practices and culture after the conversion

1. Mexico
2. Catholic
3. The Aztec practiced human sacrifice on an unusually large scale; a sacrifice would be made every day to aid the sun in rising, the dedication of the great temple at Tenochtitlán was reportedly marked with the sacrificing of thousands.
4. After conversion to catholicism, the Aztecs worshipped Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who died for their sins. The human sacrifices ended and they began to live lives of Christian virtue, thereby glorifying God. Churches were built where every native could go to hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ preached in their own language.

 

[JarJo]

So far we have

1. Mexico, converted to Catholicism, stopped human sacrifice
2. Virginia, converted to Baptist, produced the Bill of Rights

There must be some more examples?

 

[The Biblicist]

So far we have

1. Mexico, converted to Catholicism, stopped human sacrifice
2. Virginia, converted to Baptist, produced the Bill of Rights

There must be some more examples?

In 1640 England for the first time allowed independents the freedom to express their views legally through print. Baptist flooded the media with many of their views for the first time, especially their view of freedom to worship according to the dictates of their own conscience. This freedom lasted from 1640 to 1660 when Catholocism took control of the government and Baptists and Presbyterians became objects of severe persecution by the Roman Catholic Government. However, in 1688 the Presbyterians gained control of government and the Baptists put forth the London Confession of faith purposely formatted after the Westminister Confession of faith to demonstrate their orthodoxy and then made a direct appeal to the new Presbyterian form of Government for freedom to worship according to the dictates of one's own conscience. For the first time in English history the government responded by enacting a "bill of rights" one of which secured the freedom of religious expression. Baptists in Virgina used this bill of rights in England to further their argument for the same in the constitutional congress held in Virgina. Baptists were the first to enact such rights as part of a charter for a colony (Rhode Island) far ealier than it was enacted in the mother country of England (1643). Rhode Island was the first government to grant religious freedom to all of its citizens.

Much earlier the King of Holland appointed Dr. J.J. Dermout and Dr. Ypieg of the Reformed Church to investigate to see what was the earliest form of Christianity and they concluded that the Baptists were the earliest form of Christianity and based upon that study the King of Holland offered the Dutch Baptists the opportunity to become the official State Church. The Dutch Baptists refused this offer based upon their historic belief of freedom of all men to worship according to the dictates of their own conscience.

Roman Catholicism has always been the enemy of freedom to worship according to the dictates of one's own conscience. Every country that Roman Catholicism has first conquerored by the sword they have used the sword to deny religious liberty.

 

[Walter]

In 1640 England for the first time allowed independents the freedom to express their views legally through print. Baptist flooded the media with many of their views for the first time, especially their view of freedom to worship according to the dictates of their own conscience. This freedom lasted from 1640 to 1660 when Catholocism took control of the government and Baptists and Presbyterians became objects of severe persecution by the Roman Catholic Government. However, in 1688 the Presbyterians gained control of government and the Baptists put forth the London Confession of faith purposely formatted after the Westminister Confession of faith to demonstrate their orthodoxy and then made a direct appeal to the new Presbyterian form of Government for freedom to worship according to the dictates of one's own conscience. For the first time in English history the government responded by enacting a "bill of rights" one of which secured the freedom of religious expression. Baptists in Virgina used this bill of rights in England to further their argument for the same in the constitutional congress held in Virgina. Baptists were the first to enact such rights as part of a charter for a colony (Rhode Island) far ealier than it was enacted in the mother country of England (1643). Rhode Island was the first government to grant religious freedom to all of its citizens.

Much earlier the King of Holland appointed Dr. J.J. Dermout and Dr. Ypieg of the Reformed Church to investigate to see what was the earliest form of Christianity and they concluded that the Baptists were the earliest form of Christianity and based upon that study the King of Holland offered the Dutch Baptists the opportunity to become the official State Church. The Dutch Baptists refused this offer based upon their historic belief of freedom of all men to worship according to the dictates of their own conscience.

Roman Catholicism has always been the enemy of freedom to worship according to the dictates of one's own conscience. Every country that Roman Catholicism has first conquerored by the sword they have used the sword to deny religious liberty.

There was also a time in England when Catholic priests were 'hung in their popish vestments' if they were caught saying mass. Lets not forget the 'not so charitable' behavior of non-Catholic Christians either.

 

[The Biblicist]

There was also a time in England when Catholic priests were 'hung in their popish vestments' if they were caught saying mass. Lets not forget the 'not so charitable' behavior of non-Catholic Christians either.

Yes, the war between Presbyterian, Catholics and Episcopalians raged in England. When each came to power all others were the objects of their wrath. However, all came from the same source (Rome) and all believed in power of persecution through the State and proved it each time they came to power.

 

[JarJo]

Much earlier the King of Holland appointed Dr. J.J. Dermout and Dr. Ypieg of the Reformed Church to investigate to see what was the earliest form of Christianity and they concluded that the Baptists were the earliest form of Christianity and based upon that study the King of Holland offered the Dutch Baptists the opportunity to become the official State Church. The Dutch Baptists refused this offer based upon their historic belief of freedom of all men to worship according to the dictates of their own conscience.

I would love to read more about this, if it is true. Google said "No results found for Dermout and Ypieg and Holland". Do you have a reference for it?

 

[The Biblicist]

I would love to read more about this, if it is true. Google said "No results found for Dermout and Ypieg and Holland". Do you have a reference for it?

Ypeij en Dermout, Gerschiedenis Der nederandsche Hervormde Kerk (Breda 1819) quoted by J.T. Christian, A History of Baptists (Texarkana, AR; Bogard Press, 1922) vol. 1, pp. 95-96

 

[glfredrick]

I wish I had the time to flesh this out...

Sub-Saharan Africa
China
Central America
South America
Russia

And recently, a new move into the Middle East and India.

What are the changes? A move from pagan animistic syncretism to authentic believers in Christ.

Who did that? Largely Baptists or baptistic peoples who have (almost) always been missionally minded above all other groups (save the Catholics, but they missionalized for the land holdings and the increased revenues instead of the souls of the people and a better life while awaiting glorification.

Luther also made drastic changes to Germany and the surrounding areas (we probably would not be Baptists today if not for Luther) as did Calvin for the West of France and Switzerland, Scotland, etc.

 

[JarJo]

Luther also made drastic changes to Germany

Wow that's interesting, but is it really fair to blame the two World Wars on the conversion to Lutheranism?

 

[The Biblicist]

(we probably would not be Baptists today if not for Luther) QUOTE]

Nothing could be further from the truth. The anabaptists did not begin with Luther but John T. Christian and Ludwig Van Keller both trace Anabaptist ministers to previous Waldenese Ministers.

 

[JarJo]

(we probably would not be Baptists today if not for Luther) QUOTE]

Nothing could be further from the truth. The anabaptists did not begin with Luther but John T. Christian and Ludwig Van Keller both trace Anabaptist ministers to previous Waldenese Ministers.

According to mainstream history, Baptists started during the reformation. Just saying what I found on Wikipedia. I know you referenced an obscure baptist history with all sorts of alternative information, but just saying what i found on normal history.

 

[mandym]

According to mainstream history, Baptists started during the reformation. Just saying what I found on Wikipedia. I know you referenced an obscure baptist history with all sorts of alternative information, but just saying what i found on normal history.

Wikipedia is not normal history nor is it a reliable source.

 

[glfredrick]

Wow that's interesting, but is it really fair to blame the two World Wars on the conversion to Lutheranism?

Imagine how much worse it would have been had Germany supported the RCC Emperor!

Besides, the ones who foisted WWI and WWII on the world were not good "Lu-terns" (up nort' say of sayin' dat), they were pagans who were trying to usher in utopia through socialism.

 

[The Biblicist]

Imagine how much worse it would have been had Germany supported the RCC Emperor!

Besides, the ones who foisted WWI and WWII on the world were not good "Lu-terns" (up nort' say of sayin' dat), they were pagans who were trying to usher in utopia through socialism.

Yes, that is a fair point!

 

[Doubting Thomas]

My 'denomination' brought to the world the Authorized Version of the Bible and the Book of Common Prayer.

 

[Matt Black]

Hi,
We all know a lot about how Catholicism changed countries when the people converted to Catholicism. There are lots of examples in areas like latin america, Phillipines, Ireland, etc. I would like to get a better understanding of other denominations by comparing what they do to a country when they convert the people and the country becomes predominately their own denomination, so we can see the real practical differences in how people live our their specific interpretation of Christianity.
I'll start with an example of a country that converted to Catholicism, and show how I believe it affected that country, for better or for worse, and how that country then lived out its new faith.

I would suggest the following format:

1. Name of the country that was converted
2. Name of the denomination that the majority of the country was converted to
3. Description of the country's practices and culture before the conversion
4. Description of the country's practices and culture after the conversion

I'll post my example in the next post, and look forward to reading posts from others.

Hmmm... I always thought it was individuals who were converted, not countries.