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How different are Versions?

How different is the KJV1769 from the KJV1611?

  • Total voters
    25
E

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
How different is the KJV1769 from the KJV1611?

KJV1769 = the King James Version finalized
in 1769, the 1762 edition, the 1769 edition,
and American unauthorized rip-offs fo the
1762 edition and the 1769 edition.
KJV1611 = the Authorized Version as printed
in 1611

How different is the KJV1769 from the nKJV?

KJV1769 is as above (it is the unually unmarked
KJV that sells most in the USAofA)
nKJV = New King James Version of 1985.

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E

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
How do you count changes?
If two words in one are said by three different
words in the other - how many changes?

1 - one change, a source language word
was translated as two English words in one
Bible and three English words in the other

5 - five changes, two words were dropped
and three were added.
2+3=5 God said it, i believe it, and &lt;snipped&gt;

2 - two changes, two words were dropped

3 - three chages, three words were added

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Marcia

Marcia

Active Member
I marked "can't tell" for question 1 as I really have little idea how the 1611 and 1768 KJV are different. I know there are differences but not how much. Will you be giving us the answer eventually? I'd like to know.

I guessed 8% on question #2. That was just a guess.

Are you giving us the answer to that as well later on?
 
E

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
Originally posted by Marcia:
Are you giving us the answer to that as well later on?
Click to expand...
No. It is
a matter of opinion, there is no "right"
answer. If someone makes a study of how
different two things are, they need to
establish before the study what the criteria
will be for the difference.

My personal opinion is that there is
just under 2% difference between the KJV1769
and the earlier "as translated" edtion:
the KJV1611. But that isn't an opinion
shared by others, obviously (see the poll)


My personal opinion is that there is
just a tad over 4% difference between the
KJV1769 and the a so called "Modern Version"
made from the Alexandrian texts.
Not everyone will get the same mileage.

Strangely, two malcontents have already
voted "200%" :( These are the people we
are trying to reach with the truth:
what definition of "change" would allow
for double everything changed?

Did you 200%ers realise that the original
Greek in the New Testament has NO punctuation?
All the punctuation has been added by the
translators (in the KJV1769 also known
as "respellers").

Did youy 200%ers realise that the original
Greek sources of the New Testament have
no VERSE NUMBERS?
All the verse numbers were added (most in
the 1300s, i think i recall) -- very few
differences here, the next groups of
translators put in the same numbers (usually)
as earlier non-Greek "sources".

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P

Pastor KevinR

New Member
Ed, since you mentioned chapter and verse, when I was a KJVO some Onlyist teachers taught even these were inspired!
I'm going back to my pea brain and it seems to tell me that a Cardinal Hugo divided the Bible into chapters and verses around the 10th Century...anyhow, I can't verify it at this time.
 
Dr. Bob

Dr. Bob

Administrator
Administrator
5000 major spelling changes from 1611 to the 1769 revision I have, and that does not include the u/v, s/f or extra e changes that came with the evolution of the language in 150 years.

Then major changes or words and phrases that actually change the meaning of the passage - list of more than 100!

http://members.aol.com/pilgrimpub/revision.htm
 
E

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
5000 major spelling changes from 1611 to the 1769 revision I have, and that does not include the u/v, s/f or extra e changes that came with the evolution of the language in 150 years.

Then major changes or words and phrases that actually change the meaning of the passage - list of more than 100!
Click to expand...
But how many words in
the KJV1769?
 
E

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
Originally posted by Pastor KevinR:
Ed, since you mentioned chapter and verse, when I was a KJVO some Onlyist teachers taught even these were inspired!
I'm going back to my pea brain and it seems to tell me that a Cardinal Hugo divided the Bible into chapters and verses around the 10th Century...anyhow, I can't verify it at this time.
Click to expand...
This place:
http://www.heritagebbc.com/archive3/0144.html
says:


Were the Chapter and Verse Divisions Always in the Bible?

By Dr. Max D. Younce

Question
Are the chapter and verse divisions, as we have them today in our Bibles, the same as in the original manuscripts?

Answer
The answer is, “No.” The books which compose our Bible were, when written, not broken up into chapters and verses as they are today. The modern chapter divisions were probably made by one Stephen Langton, Archbishop of Canterbury, England, who died in 1228 A.D.; although, they are sometimes attributed to Cardinal Hugo (died in 1263), who used them in the preparation of a concordance to the Latin Vulgate. They are used in the English versions, from the Wycliffe’s Version (1382) to the present day.

The modern verse divisions were first made by Robert Stephanus (Stevens) of Paris, a printer, for his Greek New Testament published in 1551 A.D.

The first entire Bible where these chapter and verse divisions were used was Stephen’s edition of the Latin Vulgate in 1555. The first English New Testament to have both chapter and verse divisions was the Geneva Bible in 1560.

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N

natters

New Member
To add to Ed's post, there were a few earlier translations in various languages in the 1550s (i.e. before the 1560 Geneva, but after Stephanus' 1551 NT) that contained both chapter and verse numbers, but they were only the NT.

Also, not all chapter and verse divisions are equal - there are some variation between older translations, especially once you start comparing things like the Septuagint.
 
TC

TC

Active Member
Site Supporter
For question 1, I said 33% because the KJV's we buy today are missing the letter to the reader and the books called apocrapha and those wonderful translator sidenotes that the original 1611 edition had.

For question 2, I said 4% because for the most part, they read identical. IMHO, the differences just don't add up to all that some people would tell us.
 
E

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
The best figure i can come up with for words in the Bible
is 788,258. That figure was deduced from the KJV1769 edition.
Counting words in places like the Psalms are tricky, many Psalms
having words before verse 1.

Anyway, if there are 788,258 words, it would take
a change in 78,826 words to constitute a 1% change.

The best figure i can come up with for words in the Bible
is 788,258. That figure was deduced from the KJV1769 edition.
Counting words in places like the Psalms are tricky, many Psalms
having words before verse 1.

Anyway, if there are 788,258 words, it would take
a change in 78,826 words to constitute a 1% change.

I wonder how many periods, colons,
and other puntuations are in the Bibles?
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E

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
Oops, typo:

Anyway, if there are 788,258 words, it would take
a change in 78,826 words to constitute a 10% change
 
P

Phillip

<b>Moderator</b>
Hi folks,

In my opinion, like Doc Bob said, there are quite a few changes, but most that I have studied are simple corrections for errors to the original translation.

I cannot say that doctrine has changed or not though because of the difficulty (or lack of enthusiasm or drive to read the 1611 English).

Doctor Bob can you comment on this, since you seem very familiar with the 1611?

I do feel that the later version is more true to the original manuscripts that were used for the KJ version.

Does this ring true to others on this thread?
 
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