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How do Doctrinal Errors creep into the Church?

skypair

Active Member
BobRyan said:
Then those sheep "become leaders" and others start following "them".
Another parallel comes to mind ---- when the children of Israel asked God for a king. Seems they wanted someone to rule their secular lives the other 6 days of the week. A visible "man of God" to lead them in right living who would be more responsive on a daily basis (as Messiah would be).

But what happened? Saul apostacized! Though saved (I believe), he totally went over to the "dark side" in leading Israel. That's precisely like some men who have led these sects off into darkness.

Of course, in Saul's case, God had already "replaced" him with David. And David was after God's own heart in that David was under God's authority continuous (when he made mistakes, he immediately repented and sought God) so that he could be could legitimize his authority from God over God's people.

It is better to have a daily relationship with God (not just a Sabbath one) and be trusting in Him rather than men. Sabbath simply means "rest" and when we focus that rest on one day, we are as the children of Israel, we end up asking God for secular leadership because we don't relate with God often enough to get our own answers. You know, God really would have preferred the former -- no secular ruler but God Himself.

skypair
 
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trustitl

New Member
How do doctrinal errors creep in?

Alcott said:
How do doctrinal error "creep" into the church? I guess they come in tippytoe. But come off it, little Bobby. You are always leading up to one issue and I'm sure you're creeping it in here.

The bible says "privily" not "tippytoe".

PRIV'ILY, adv. [from privy.] Privately; secretly.

OK, I guess tippytoe does work :thumbs: . And it does seem both scripture and my experience supports that people get focused on one issue and lose sight of the truth.

However, the "little Bobby" statement is out of line even though THE issue does keep coming up.

Galations 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. 2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. 3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. 4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

I don't think the influence of Christ will get us to speak to ane another like that. Hope you don't mind the admonition, it is out of love :love2: .
 

skypair

Active Member
Bob Ryan,

I am surprised you haven't seen this yet. Been vacationing, have you? :saint:


skypair said:
Another parallel comes to mind ---- when the children of Israel asked God for a king. Seems they wanted someone to rule their secular lives the other 6 days of the week. A visible "man of God" to lead them in right living who would be more responsive on a daily basis (as Messiah would be).

But what happened? Saul apostacized! Though saved (I believe), he totally went over to the "dark side" in leading Israel. That's precisely like some men who have led these sects off into darkness.

Of course, in Saul's case, God had already "replaced" him with David. And David was after God's own heart in that David was under God's authority continuous (when he made mistakes, he immediately repented and sought God) so that he could be could legitimize his authority from God over God's people.

It is better to have a daily relationship with God (not just a Sabbath one) and be trusting in Him rather than men. Sabbath simply means "rest" and when we focus that rest on one day, we are as the children of Israel, we end up asking God for secular leadership because we don't relate with God often enough to get our own answers. You know, God really would have preferred the former -- no secular ruler but God Himself.

skypair
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
The Bible says that Saul received "A changed heart" the New Birth.

The Bible also says "God became Saul's enemy" BECAUSE his final act of rebellion was to resort to a spiritist medium and consult the dead saints as if communion with the dead would solve his problems.

Not sure how this helps your case or hurts mine.

Feel free to elaborate.

(Yes I have been in India for a while - but just got back ... However I was posting from there during off hours U.S time).

in Christ,

Bob
 

eightball

New Member
JFox1 said:
In a sermon, my pastor blamed the liberals for errors entering the church because they don't believe in biblical inerrancy, they believe in women pastors, and homoexuality is not wrong. But if that's the case, how do errors creep into more conservative churches?

Pride?

One can be so inbossed in mind and soul with inerrancy, that the enemy can even use that mind-set, and methodology to trip-up the alleged, "mature" saints.

The Bereans would immediately go to their scripture to make sure that Paul or others were not leading them astray.

The church, in it's desire to be "sola scriptura", can stumble over the block of stumbling, in it's desire to be "right" with God.

Some say "white", others say, "black" while others say "gray".

There is no "gray" in God's economy, though God in His incredible grace allows some to flail-away in the "in-between" of scripture, and man's liberalism in His wisdom, that goes beyond our finite minds.

Balance is needed in the Christian life...........Prayer must not be sacrificed or minimized to emphasize worship, and worship minimized to emphasize scriptural literacy, and scriptural literacy minimized to emphasize the before-mentioned.

Paul said that all the gifts were good, but they were also very "dead" and like clanging noisey bells, if they weren't under-girded with "LOVE"/"CHARITY".

This I believe can be applied both to the very liberal, and very conservative Christian. Both can become so enamoured in their view, that they lose contact or close relationship with the "founder" of their faith.

One quenches the H.S. through a cold, legalistic approach to their birthright in Christ, while the other, quenches the H.S. through their testing of the grace of God via their new found freedoms.

I think that the church suffers so much both on the corporate level and the individual believer level, because of a very skewed understanding of the nature of God.

We carry so much baggage of the world into our new life in Christ, and try so hard to apply it's principles and tools as a means of validating our faith.

We don't let God be who He is, but let Him be what we "expect" Him to be through "filtered" lenses formed by earthly parental experiences.

God becomes in some ways, that skewed and imperfect parental model of our earthly life's upbringing. If we were loved conditionally, we see God as this exacting, strict, omnipotent One, with a leather strap, or switch, that will bang us in the rump or slap us in the face if we falter in our perserverance. We end up calling this, "The Fear Of The Lord", erroneously.

The flip-side, is the believer that takes liberty to such a point, that they are constantly testing the bounds and limits of God's grace. They justify their actions or inactions based on a freedom in Christ, that is also a skewed understanding of the "peace, rest, and security" side of God's promises.

God has expectations, yet He also knows that we are but leaky, clay vessels.

If we are to be a vessel of grandeur, or a common vessel, it is God's perfect wisdom being applied.

I think that the very conservative church and the liberal end of the Christian church have much to learn from each other, and also need to start focusing on the relational part of the Christian life.

We've been given a birthright, from God. It is irrevocable. Awe and trembling need to be part of this understanding. Why? We, are who we are because of the incredible grace of Who? Why God, and through His Son's life, and that alone, and nothing else.

I used to be so critical of music in the church, how often communion was done, modes of baptism, and so many different things, that were just the periphery, of the Christian life or relationship with God.

The more that a church focuses on their totally inability to "please" God, the more that church starts to rely on God's truth to compass their way in this world of so many abhorrent teachings, both covert, and openly taught. The more that the believer relys on God, with the Berean attitude of testing, the more that doctrinal error will not make enroads.

It is very dangerous to believe that a church that sticks to 1950's and older hymns, and follows a particular mode of worship, that goes back to early times is the "safe" church. Doctrinal, is important and a "must", but if the doctrinal church lacks the undergirding of "LOVE", then there is an insidious sickness within that body.

Remember that the Pharisees and Scribes fastidiously followed myriad of laws from the time of Moses, yet lacked, "life". They were white washed and clean on the outside, yet they lacked substance/life on the inside. Their eyes darkened, their inner man, a shallow grave, of self-deceived piousness.

Liberality breeds liberty that pushes the envelope of grace, and leads to sin. Super conservatism, pushes the envelope of grace to the other extreme, and replaces freedom in Christ with exacting, legalism, and judgementalism.

There is a happy medium that isn't gray, but is doctrinal, and doesn't throw out the Spirit of the Word, with the bath water of man's invented ideology, both liberal and conservative.
 
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BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by JFox1
In a sermon, my pastor blamed the liberals for errors entering the church because they don't believe in biblical inerrancy, they believe in women pastors, and homoexuality is not wrong. But if that's the case, how do errors creep into more conservative churches?

Step 1 - the "conservative church" adopts a few traditions/practices that are not backed up in scripture with a "you must do this and this as well".

(just to be on the "safe" side).

2. The members of the "conservative" church already have doctrinal agreement and pretty soon they get lazy - no more checking up on whether the sermon is "accurate" just checking to see if 'the story sounds about right". God's word becomes more of a relic and less of a life-rope.

3. Membership starts to decline and the focus ceases to be on doctrinally pure evangelism. More "in-reach" than "out-reach"


4. Someone "from among your own selves" (Acts 22) steps up and proposes a somewhat off-beat idea that in fact is able to draw more people into the chruch. Membership starts to go up but the "older timers" object based on Bible arguments that nobody can seriously follow any more. Being "serious" about the bible is not popular in the group any more. A split occurs with about 35% of the members leaving.

Now the "old church" is the "new Church". And who knows - maybe it is growing by leaps and bounds compared to the old church.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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skypair

Active Member
BobRyan said:
(Yes I have been in India for a while - but just got back ... However I was posting from there during off hours U.S time).
Sounds like your church got "infected" by the Rick Warren movement as well, eh? (Just kidding :laugh: )

The Bible says that Saul received "A changed heart" the New Birth.
Changed heart but no new birth. New birth is new covenant. His was the old covenant times.

The Bible also says "God became Saul's enemy" BECAUSE his final act of rebellion was to resort to a spiritist medium and consult the dead saints as if communion with the dead would solve his problems.

Not sure how this helps your case or hurts mine.
Yeah, you did miss the point. The point is that the law governs the secular, the flesh, in the absence of a spiritual "Governor" within. Law merely added another layer to the previous outside influences (human gov't, family, the presence of God Himself in the Garden, etc.).

But the new covenant teaches us to "live by the Spirit" whereby we are not in bondage to the law and the flesh. It's like this, Ryan --- our bodies are just a "prison"and everything that is accomplished in the flesh fails by virtue of the weakness of the flesh. What allows us to "master" the flesh and be free of that "prison" is the Spirit.

So my point was that the separation of king from priest in Saul showed us that external government in spiritual matters will always be inadequate. Even in the MK when Jesus "law" (Mt 5-7) is in place and enforced, the spirit not in subjection will rebel and die (Rev 20:7-8).

And you serve the law, according to your own testimony.

skypair
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Rom 3:31 -- "Do we then make void the Law of God our faith?? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God".

I see you are struggling with this -- let me help you and maybe then you can see the point Paul is making clearly.

in Christ,

Bob
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
WHY is it that Paul writes

Rom 3:31 NASB
"Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we Establish the Law"[/b] Rom 3:31 NASB

Rom 3:31 NKJV
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Rom 3:31 NIV
31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Rom 3:31 KJV
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 3:31 YLT
31 Law then do we make useless through the faith? let it not be! yea, we do establish law.



The Post-cross teaching of the apostles CONTINUES to support that importance of God’s Word – God’s Commandments – and obedience rather than rebellion.

I Jn 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Rev 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14
14[b] Blessed are they that do his commandments,[/b] that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

I Jn 2:3-4
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but
what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
The point is - these texts and others need to be kept in mind to avoid doctrinal error. Sometimes it is not popular to do so -- but then that is how it all get's started isn't it?
 
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