How Do the Moral Commands of the Law and Those in the NT Mesh for Christians?

[Yeshua1]

The moral law is The Two Great Commandments. If you live according to this, you will slam dunk the Ten Commandments without trying.

Think of it this way. Which Law did Jesus fulfill on the cross? Did he not covet the soldier's sandals? Or not covet Pilate's wife? Did he not kill those who were killing him?

Or:

Did jesus keep the Two Great Commandments and thereby fulfill the Ten also? He loved God with all his Body, down to the last drop of blood his heart could beat. He loved his neighbor enemy asking for their forgiveness as they wrenched the last breath from him. He loved God and enemy with all of his strength, mind and soul as he said "thy will be done" leading up to the crucifixion.

Hopefully, this will reveal the difference in the Laws. When we do as Jesus did, walking in the Spirit, the Ten Commandments take care of themselves.

Do we live as we want to once saved, or do we seek to please God by obeying His Moral Law?

 

[1689Dave]

Do we live as we want to once saved, or do we seek to please God by obeying His Moral Law?

Without holiness no one will see the Lord. But wicked people keep the same laws contained in the Ten Commandments every day in every nation of the world. And if you think being a good citizen cuts it with God, look again. The Ten Commandments were primarily civil law for unregenerate people.

 

[Yeshua1]

Without holiness no one will see the Lord. But wicked people keep the same laws contained in the Ten Commandments every day in every nation of the world. And if you think being a good citizen cuts it with God, look again. The Ten Commandments were primarily civil law for unregenerate people.

NONE keep the 10 Commandments though!

 

[1689Dave]

NONE keep the 10 Commandments though!

This is what I'm saying. Keeping the Ten Commandments reluctantly is no different from being a good citizen because they reluctantly do not steal, or run stop signs or anything else "good citizens" do not do.

But Love does good things, it doesn't just not do bad things.

 

[Yeshua1]

This is what I'm saying. Keeping the Ten Commandments reluctantly is no different from being a good citizen because they reluctantly do not steal, or run stop signs or anything else "good citizens" do not do.

But Love does good things, it doesn't just not do bad things.

There is still a Moral law in operation, and you will reap from God what you sow, for both good and bad!

 

[1689Dave]

There is still a Moral law in operation, and you will reap from God what you sow, for both good and bad!

But,

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.” (Galatians 5:16–18)

 

[Yeshua1]

But,

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.” (Galatians 5:16–18)

Not under the law for salvation, but the law is still the moral standard to be aiming for in our behavior!

 

[1689Dave]

Not under the law for salvation, but the law is still the moral standard to be aiming for in our behavior!

True, but if you need God to tell you not to steal, you are not walking in the Spirit.

 

[Yeshua1]

True, but if you need God to tell you not to steal, you are not walking in the Spirit.

How so, as the Spirit Himself would have us to uphold the law of God!

 

[1689Dave]

How so, as the Spirit Himself would have us to uphold the law of God!

Bad people need laws. Good people do not. They don't want to break laws because they are good. You might think you are good for not stealing even though you want to. But good people do not want to steal.

Thus, “We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.” (1 John 5:18)

 

[Yeshua1]

Bad people need laws. Good people do not. They don't want to break laws because they are good. You might think you are good for not stealing even though you want to. But good people do not want to steal.

Thus, “We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.” (1 John 5:18)

David delighted himself in obeying the law of the Lord, and he was a man after God's own heart, correct?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Thanks for the time and effort. If you read this, let me make my understanding clear.

Some of this is so dreadfully wrong that I feel I must correct it.

The Two Great Commandments are eternal based on Love for God and people.

Correct, but so is the Decalogue, of which the Two Commandments are a summary.

The carnal Jews were incapable of this so God forced them to act like believers under threat of death. He gave them the Ten Commandments for this purpose.

Wrong understanding of the O.C., but I haven't time to correct it.

When God introduced the New Covenant, only believers remained Having a heart of love, they kept walking in the light of the Two Great Commandments. And dropped the Ten Commandments meant for unbelievers.

So, God removed the Ten Commandments (Old Covenant) along with all of the unbelievers from Israel (aka the Church).[/QUOTE]
Wrong. Matthew 5:19; 1 Corinthians 7:19. Believers who break the Commandments need to confess and repent.

The Church uses 9 of the Ten Commandments (sabbath excluded) for commentary and instruction purposes throughout the NT.

I am glad that you agree that the Decalogue is for instruction, but if Jesus is your Lord, please note that He is also Lord of the Sabbath and if you study the Bible you will find that nowhere has He resigned that office.

But the NT warns, that if you try to keep the Ten Commandments as the unbelievers did, you must return to all of the Old Covenant including the daily sacrifices and you will end up rejecting Christ as they did.

This is what is so dreadfully, wickedly false that I have to teply. NOWHERE in the New Testament are Christians told not to keep the Ten Commandments. The reverse is true, e.g. 1 Corinthians 7:19. You need to retract this immediately. 'Indeed, I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law' (Galatians 5:2-3).

Circumcision is part of the ceremonial law which pointed to Christ as the seed of the woman and the Seed of Abraham. With the coming of Christ, circumcision is fulfilled and to continue with it is to deny Christ. Paul says that if one became circumcised one would be bound to the whole ceremonial law. This says nothing about the Moral law which preceded the law of Moses. It was NEVER OK to have other gods before Yahweh; it was NEVER OK to make and worship idols and so forth. The Ten Commandments remain, not to condemn born-again believers, but to guide them in the paths of righteousness.

 

[1689Dave]

Correct, but so is the Decalogue, of which the Two Commandments are a summary.

How can the Ten Commandments be a summary of the Two when the Ten were suspended from the Two? The Two were here first and apprehended by faith. Did the saints even need the Ten? Laws are for bad people, not good people who do not need them.

Wrong understanding of the O.C., but I haven't time to correct it.

Here's what Paul says:

“as knowing this, that law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and unruly, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for abusers of themselves with men, for menstealers, for liars, for false swearers, and if there be any other thing contrary to the sound doctrine;” (1 Timothy 1:9–10)

Did Abel, Job, Abraham and the rest of the faithful need this?

Wrong. Matthew 5:19; 1 Corinthians 7:19. Believers who break the Commandments need to confess and repent.

This is true, but they do not sacrifice bulls or keep any of the Law since the New Covenant replaced it. Unregenerate institutional church membership needs the Ten Commandments just as the wicked unbelieving Jews did. But the church is not a man made institution. the Church IS Christ's body, made up of believers only. Believers use the Ten Commandments for commentary, witnessing to unbelievers, and instruction. But again, good people do not need laws written for bad people.

I am glad that you agree that the Decalogue is for instruction, but if Jesus is your Lord, please note that He is also Lord of the Sabbath and if you study the Bible you will find that nowhere has He resigned that office.

The New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant:

““Indeed, a time is coming,” says the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah.It will not be like the old covenant that I made with their ancestors when I delivered them from Egypt. For they violated that covenant, even though I was like a faithful husband to them,” says the Lord.” (Jeremiah 31:31–32)

The Sabbath was the sign of the Old Covenant now abolished. If you keep the Sabbath, you must reject Christ and keep the entire law, civil. ceremonial and moral.

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts 15:5)

“Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.” (Acts 15:10–11)

“But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.” (Acts 15:20) (all of which preceded the Ten Commandments).

This is what is so dreadfully, wickedly false that I have to teply. NOWHERE in the New Testament are Christians told not to keep the Ten Commandments. The reverse is true, e.g. 1 Corinthians 7:19. You need to retract this immediately. 'Indeed, I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law' (Galatians 5:2-3).

Do you keep God's Commandments? Of course not. If you did, you would sign over all of your possessions to the needy. Just as Jesus told the rich young ruler. Do you think you are keeping the Ten Commandments by not stealing? If your neighbor is your equal, you are stealing when you withhold from him (enemies too). Do you think you are keeping the Ten Commandments by not coveting what is your neighbor's? If you want to keep them, work as hard to make him as successful as you do your own self. And if you do all of this, where do you wind up?

You wind up with the Two Great Commandments that Jesus fulfilled for you on the cross so that you would not have to.

Of course we keep the shallow end of the Ten Commandments. What christian does not?

Circumcision is part of the ceremonial law which pointed to Christ as the seed of the woman and the Seed of Abraham. With the coming of Christ, circumcision is fulfilled and to continue with it is to deny Christ. Paul says that if one became circumcised one would be bound to the whole ceremonial law. This says nothing about the Moral law which preceded the law of Moses. It was NEVER OK to have other gods before Yahweh; it was NEVER OK to make and worship idols and so forth. The Ten Commandments remain, not to condemn born-again believers, but to guide them in the paths of righteousness.

You cannot divide the Law up. It all stands or falls together. If you keep the Sabbath, you must butcher cattle to atone for your sins. And you must stop heating your house on saturday in the winter. And stop eating pork chops and lobster.

 

[1689Dave]

David delighted himself in obeying the law of the Lord, and he was a man after God's own heart, correct?

Was David born again? Then he lived according to the Two Great Commandments and therein kept the Ten properly. But if he was not born again, he kept the shallow end of the Ten Commandments like all of the unbelieving Jews did. I know David was born again and fulfilled the Ten Commandments as Abel and Job did before ever hearing mention of them.

 

[Yeshua1]

Was David born again? Then he lived according to the Two Great Commandments and therein kept the Ten properly. But if he was not born again, he kept the shallow end of the Ten Commandments like all of the unbelieving Jews did. I know David was born again and fulfilled the Ten Commandments as Abel and Job did before ever hearing mention of them.

God said that david was a mn after His own heart, and David was aware of having the Holy Spirit upon Him, so do you see him as being a saved person?

 

[1689Dave]

God said that david was a mn after His own heart, and David was aware of having the Holy Spirit upon Him, so do you see him as being a saved person?

David was born again and had the Holy Spirit, else he would not have been a man after God's own heart.

 

[Yeshua1]

David was born again and had the Holy Spirit, else he would not have been a man after God's own heart.

And he delighted in the law of the Lord....

 

[1689Dave]

And he delighted in the law of the Lord....

Yes, and so do we. But, the Ten Commandments did not save anyone. They provided temporal material blessings for obedience and loss of material rewards for disobedience. They were the true "prosperity gospel" and still are.

“For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came about through Jesus Christ.” (John 1:17)

“For sin will have no mastery over you, because you are not under law but under grace.” (Romans 6:14)

Do you keep the Ten Commandments? Of course not. Because if you love your neighbor as yourself, you are stealing if you do not give half of what you own to him. This is why the rich young ruler went away in sorrow. Jesus said, if you want to keep the law, you must sell all that you have, give to the poor, take the cross and follow him. Which equals the Two Great Commandments that Jesus kept in our place on the cross.

And, Jesus kept the Law perfectly for us as our representative, because we cannot. And God considers us as perfect as Jesus, just as he once considered us as sinful as Adam who represented us in the garden.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, and so do we. But, the Ten Commandments did not save anyone. They provided temporal material blessings for obedience and loss of material rewards for disobedience. They were the true "prosperity gospel" and still are.

“For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came about through Jesus Christ.” (John 1:17)

“For sin will have no mastery over you, because you are not under law but under grace.” (Romans 6:14)

Do you keep the Ten Commandments? Of course not. Because if you love your neighbor as yourself, you are stealing if you do not give half of what you own to him. This is why the rich young ruler went away in sorrow. Jesus said, if you want to keep the law, you must sell all that you have, give to the poor, take the cross and follow him. Which equals the Two Great Commandments that Jesus kept in our place on the cross.

And, Jesus kept the Law perfectly for us as our representative, because we cannot. And God considers us as perfect as Jesus, just as he once considered us as sinful as Adam who represented us in the garden.

NONE of us are saying that we keep the Law in order to get saved, but that once saved, still are obligated to keep the moral aspect of the law of God!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Anyone who thinks that because they love God and their neighbour (or think they do) they get a free pass on any of the Ten Commandments, he is deceiving himself.

Those who are walking in the Spirit desire to keep all of God's righteous moral laws (Psalm 40:8).