All Bob Ryan has been doing for the past ten years on BB—to the detriment of the cause of the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD—was to illegitimately and farcically refer to SUNDAY-keeping and SUNDAY-'sabbath' believing Christian men on behalf of the Seventh Day Sabbath.
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How do the SDA Regard Col 2:15/16 and hebrews 4?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
Eliyahu said:
It CANNOT!
Not according to NEW Testament, CHRISTIAN, Greek of the THEN and THUS USED, Greek IDIOM.
If one apply the literal Greek as here, everywhere else, it would give off a pretty great MESS that would infect and defect the whole New Testament.
This 'idea' is not even a proper idea, but the whims of the imagination Greek non con poops dream up and think they are prophets for their nightmarish knowledge and understanding of the Greek.
When a real Greek scholar -- like Calvin -- translates this passage literally, he does not give his INTERPRETATION or the actual hermeneutic of it; he does what he does solely: he gives the literal.
Yes, Christians have been so brainwashed and mesmerised by the biggest FAKE this world has ever seen, it is hardly possible they would ever again come to the correct understanding of Matthew 28:1 as found in English translations until the nineteenth century but was ROBBED FROM IT'S "SABBATH'S-TIME", VANDALIZED, THEN STOLEN AND SMUGGLED into Sunday-resurrection faith.
... the shameful and scandalous doing of quasi-translators who are no more translators than they are honest Christians! And this process comes over centuries, there's NO MORE doubt about its underhandedness.
Seventh-day Adventist and COG gibberish!
The ‘subject of Colossians 2', is, that Paul “would … that their hearts might be COMFORTED / ASSURED being knit together in love … lest any man should beguile you with enticing words … of your reward”—which is Jesus Christ “in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands … by the circumcision OF CHRIST, (being) buried with Him in his baptism wherein also ye are CO-RAISED WITH HIM … you being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh having been QUICKENED TOGETHER WITH HIM, all trespasses having been FORGIVEN you … Christ having TRIUMPHED over … the handwriting in ordinances against us … and (over) principalities and powers [and] the authority of darkness [the “world”] … in the body of his flesh through death … THEREFORE THEN [‘oun’] don’t you let yourselves be judged or condemned or incriminated or intimidated or bullied in eating and drinking in respect OF FEAST, month’s or SABBATHS’-FEAST WHICH THINGS ARE FAST NEAR SHADOWING FORTH THE SUBSTANCE OF CHRIST : Let no one condemn you were he so meek he worshipped angels—practices he sunk into, vainly being puffed up by his fleshly mind and NOT HOLDING TO THE HEAD … CHRIST GIVEN TO THE CHURCH … FROM WHOM ALL THE BODY … having NOURISHMENT (EATING AND DRINKING] ministered, closely joined together, GROW with the GROWTH of God.”
HERE—in the passage ITSELF—is found the meaning of the Church’s “eating and drinking OF FEAST, WHETHER OF MONTH’S OR SABBATHS’”—it is the spiritual "SABBATHS' FEAST ... in eating and drinking" through FAITH of “CHRIST THE SUBSTANCE” or “NOURISHMENT”, “ministered” to the “Body of Christ’s Own” in the present and of the present, Christian age and “ministration” or “dispensation”. It never has had anything to do with the Old Testament “shadow-sabbaths” or with “animal sacrifices … the prediction of a future event to be fulfilled by Christ”, but WAS, “CHRIST”, “the ALL in all fulfilling FULLNESS OF GOD”.
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If you read the corrupted and mutilated 'Matthew 28:1', you have the one lonely text in the whole of the Bible (supposed to be) that >>will answer all your questions about the day we set aside to honor Jesus Christ<< WITH FRAUD AS SUNDAY—as it never in all the Bible was INTENDED and never in the life of the Body of Christ’s Own should have been.
When accusations are FALSE they are FALSE and the accuser is as FALSE as the accusations are FALSE.
Like Bob Ryan -- my opponent -- interpreted and rendered Hebrews 4 above is simply CORRECT, CONTEXTUAL and strictly taken literally, according to the writer's theology.
saturneptune cannot take the meaning of Hebrews 4 to saturneptune, and therefore dislikes Bob Ryan's exegesis that takes the meaning of Hebrews 4 at least literally to "the Seventh Day God thus concerning did speak" and the "keeping of the Sabbath Day" that "THEREFORE REMAINS VALID FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD". Pity saturneptune doesn't count himself one of this People of God for whom Keeping of the Sabbath Day remains valid. His loss, alas!
... but not to make worship on Sunday central to the Gospel of course ... that's vitally central to the Gospel, no legalism, let it be clear!
what did paul mean in colosians then?
we are now under grace, not the law as to salvation, would you be More saved in worshi is sat?
the lord is in covenant with one based yupon relationship thru Risen Christ, why add law/rules/regulations to not even the jews could fully keep?
Did you know that the early Church decided NOT to impose sabbath on gentiles to observe, right?
To be fair here, there are differences in calvinism, as there are reformed who hold to the confessions, and non like me, who do not see it quite that way!
Gues that truth that Chrsit fulfilled the law, is the end of the law unto them who believes means?
By the Blood and Death of Jesus Christ the whole Law was blotted out to the letter of the Old Law because HE, is, "The Word" the LAW-of-God, IN PERSON : HIMSELF. Jesus was the One KILLED and IN HIM, THE LAW OF GOD was KILLED, annihilated and abolished.
"... having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 He ABOLISHED THE HANDWRITTEN LAW OF ORDINANCES consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; He took it out of the way and nailed it to the cross disarming the rulers and authorities and publicly humiliating them, thus triumphing over them IN IT" --- "IN IT" : in ABOLISHING THE HANDWRITTEN LAW OF ORDINANCES consisting of decrees against us, in TAKING IT OUT OF THE WAY AND NAILING it to the cross, Christ "IN IT", disarmed the rulers and authorities and publicly humiliated them and "TRIUMPHED".
Yes, God >through Him< triumphed; but CHRIST through or in having done THESE THINGS with regard to the Law and WITH THE LAW, "IN IT, triumphed".
You said “through Him” so that it would appear Christ did not “triumph” in having ABOLISHED THE LAW. Well, that is corrupting the Scriptures which actually shows contempt for the Law instead of respect for the Law.
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he fulfilled the Law, as we could not, and because he did, he abolished the law as the means to getting right with God, as now we are under grace!
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by BobRyan
That quote above is not a quote of Matt 28:1.
Nor does Matt 28:1 say that we should keep week-day-1 holy
1John 3:4 John says that SIN is STILL defined as "transgression of the Law" and Paul says that "what matters" for the saints is STILL "Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19.
And in Romans 6 Paul asks the question about SIN "What then shall we SIN because we are not under law but under grace?" - and then Paul points out that if you do that - you don't go to heaven.
That is pretty interesting all by itself - even if we did not know about 1Cor 6 where Paul says "do not be deceived".
In Col 2:13-14 Paul points out that instead of nailing His Word to the Cross - Christ nailed the "certificate of debt" that we owe to the cross.
in Christ,
Bob
Context!
John/paul/james adressing how we should behave AFTER being saved, that we will present evidence to support us saying that we are chrsitians, but those fruit NOT what got us saved, nor keep us saved, as salvation is the work of the lord towards us!
IF you wish to observe sat sabbath, go ahead, as to you that is your day to worship, but also allow for Sun for me, as God does NOT care the Day, but that we honor Him in our herats that day!
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
God does not argue that the lost must keep the Ten Commandments in order to get saved.
But Paul does speak to the Commandments of God in the life of the saved.
And his view is that for the saints "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19 just as John argues in 1John 5:2.
No wonder then that your own Baptist Confession argues this point. They were on good Bible grounds to do so - as it turns out.
For the saved saint - the born-again experience writes the "Law of God on the heart and mind" Heb 8 (Jer 31:31-33). It is the same law that the Baptist Confession and the Westminster confession speak about - the moral law - the TEN Commandments - but it is written on the heart.
The Law external only on tables of stone - can only condemn the lost. But that Jer 31:31-33 Law of God - internal written on the heart of the born-again saint will cause that saint to do as Paul stated in Romans 6 - to reject sin (and John says in 1John 3:4 that sin IS transgression of the Law).
In Romans 8 Paul insists that the born again saints will "By the Spirit put to death the deeds of the flesh".
And in Rev 14:12 the saints "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus".
Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath" in the New Earth - "ALL mankind will come before ME to worship".
Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God"
in Christ,
Bob
we are NOT under obligation to keeping a certain day, to keeping rituals, but ARE under obligation to submit and walk to an the Holy spirit of God, THAt is the key to living for god, NOT keeping the Sabbath, nor keeping the law!
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
God said "Remember the Sabbath day to Keep it Holy" Ex 20:8
God said "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23
God said that to nullify the Commandments of God with the traditions of man - is to seek to invalidate the "Word of God" in Mark 7:6-13.
But you said
you seem to be willing to take big risks in the face of the Word of God to the contrary.
"Do we then make VOID the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we Establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
"What matters is KEEPING the Commandments" 1Cor 7:19
"What then shall we SIN because we are under grace and not under law? God forbid!" Romans 6.
The saints "KEEP the Commandments of God" and the "Commandments of God are not a burden" 1John 5:2-3.
Under the NEW Covenant - of Jer 31:31-33 the "LAW of God is written on the mind and on the heart" Hebrews 8.
The Holy Spirit "Convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" John 16:8-16 instead of tossing the Word of God - the TEN Commandments out the window.
in Christ,
Bob
God said "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23
God said that to nullify the Commandments of God with the traditions of man - is to seek to invalidate the "Word of God" in Mark 7:6-13.
But you said
you seem to be willing to take big risks in the face of the Word of God to the contrary.
"Do we then make VOID the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we Establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
"What matters is KEEPING the Commandments" 1Cor 7:19
"What then shall we SIN because we are under grace and not under law? God forbid!" Romans 6.
The saints "KEEP the Commandments of God" and the "Commandments of God are not a burden" 1John 5:2-3.
Under the NEW Covenant - of Jer 31:31-33 the "LAW of God is written on the mind and on the heart" Hebrews 8.
The Holy Spirit "Convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" John 16:8-16 instead of tossing the Word of God - the TEN Commandments out the window.
in Christ,
Bob