How Do you feel About "Full Gospel" baptist churches?

[righteousdude2]

How did you come to ANOTHER rash conclusion???

righteousdude


Dude ...you finally confirm what I have said....you are not a baptist.What you are teaching is not baptist teaching.
So why this whole charade? You are on BB , not teaching baptist teaching.Then you get upset when we question you on it?

If you are a charismatic believer thats who you are.Both teachings do not really mesh. You see that here.

You are convinced you get messages from outside the bible, the rest of us stay in the bible:thumbsup: Case closed:thumbsup:

I clearly stated that I worked as a Southern Baptist church as youth pastor for several years. I then moved to another Southern Baptist church and served there for two years as a music minister and associate pastor.

During my time there, I went through the course work with the pastor, who taught at California Baptist College (at the time), met with the church elders, and was finally approved for ordination.

How does that not make me a Baptist? You are really good at reading between the lines. Let's hope that this is not how you are interpreting the Bible, or you're in trouble :laugh:

How many pastors in the Baptist denomination started out as a Baptist, or even grew up Baptist? And where does it say that a man can't be ordained as a Southern Baptist pastor, because he once served in another denomination?

Are you and your creeds so squeaky tight that I am not accepted into the fellowship because you said so???

And besides, when I reach the narrow gate at the end of the narrow path, I will not be granted eternal life based upon being a Baptist, Cathoolic, Methodist, Lutheran, or whatever else.

I will be admitted to glory by the stripes of my Lord and Savior.

Isaiah 53:5 - But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.
1 Peter 2:24 - ...who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.


You have shown just how shallow a person you really are. Let's hope you don't practice your squeaky clean routine on others, who are more susceptible to your strong-armed tactics, or when they leave the church because of you and your interpretation of the Bible, their blood will be on your hands.

I run into people every day who have come across two types of people in this world. One is the WOF people. They have been turned off by the WOF creeds and beliefs and fallen by the wayside.

The other type of persons I come across are those who have been soured on the church by small-minded people who have this perfect box that people have to fit into, or they are not good enough to go to where they proclaim they are going.

Well, if the heaven you preach is as you preach it, then I doubt there will many people going there. In truth, I don't know if I'd even want to go to a place that is so rigid and hypocritical that only the top 1% think the house Jesus is preparing is specifically for them?

Again, I am totally surprised that the moderators have not rebuked you for your condemnation of another brother.

First you question my salvation...then my ordination...and now I'm NOT Baptist enough to be on this board. What a farce!

In some circles that would be called bigotry. However, I am hesitant to fall into the same pit as you [judgment of others], because I know I have a toothpick in my eye. I just don't know if you realize there is a 100-year-old pine tree in your eye? :laugh:

Your views loudly echo those of a sad, pathetic little man. I will be praying for you, as after this last round of words, I can see you need prayer as much as you think I need to understand your narrow-minded theology.

Nothing you say can or will change the fact that I first and foremost, I have been born again; that I am a child of the King; that his blood has made me whole by way of my confession and acceptance of His Grace; and then, and maybe then and of course the least of all these things, I happened to have been ordained a Baptist pastor.

 

[Iconoclast]

I clearly stated that I worked as a Southern Baptist church as youth pastor for several years. I then moved to another Southern Baptist church and served there for two years as a music minister and associate pastor.

During my time there, I went through the course work with the pastor, who taught at California Baptist College (at the time), met with the church elders, and was finally approved for ordination.

How does that not make me a Baptist? You are really good at reading between the lines. Let's hope that this is not how you are interpreting the Bible, or you're in trouble :laugh:

How many pastors in the Baptist denomination started out as a Baptist, or even grew up Baptist? And where does it say that a man can't be ordained as a Southern Baptist pastor, because he once served in another denomination?

Are you and your creeds so squeaky tight that I am not accepted into the fellowship because you said so???

And besides, when I reach the narrow gate at the end of the narrow path, I will not be granted eternal life based upon being a Baptist, Cathoolic, Methodist, Lutheran, or whatever else.

I will be admitted to glory by the stripes of my Lord and Savior.

Isaiah 53:5 - But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.
1 Peter 2:24 - ...who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.


You have shown just how shallow a person you really are. Let's hope you don't practice your squeaky clean routine on others, who are more susceptible to your strong-armed tactics, or when they leave the church because of you and your interpretation of the Bible, their blood will be on your hands.

I run into people every day who have come across two types of people in this world. One is the WOF people. They have been turned off by the WOF creeds and beliefs and fallen by the wayside.

The other type of persons I come across are those who have been soured on the church by small-minded people who have this perfect box that people have to fit into, or they are not good enough to go to where they proclaim they are going.

Well, if the heaven you preach is as you preach it, then I doubt there will many people going there. In truth, I don't know if I'd even want to go to a place that is so rigid and hypocritical that only the top 1% think the house Jesus is preparing is specifically for them?

Again, I am totally surprised that the moderators have not rebuked you for your condemnation of another brother.

First you question my salvation...then my ordination...and now I'm NOT Baptist enough to be on this board. What a farce!

In some circles that would be called bigotry. However, I am hesitant to fall into the same pit as you [judgment of others], because I know I have a toothpick in my eye. I just don't know if you realize there is a 100-year-old pine tree in your eye? :laugh:

Your views loudly echo those of a sad, pathetic little man. I will be praying for you, as after this last round of words, I can see you need prayer as much as you think I need to understand your narrow-minded theology.

Nothing you say can or will change the fact that I first and foremost, I have been born again; that I am a child of the King; that his blood has made me whole by way of my confession and acceptance of His Grace; and then, and maybe then and of course the least of all these things, I happened to have been ordained a Baptist pastor.

Dude,

By your own words you said you were ordained to ministry without the HolyGhost...here is what you said;

I hooked as music minister and associate pastor at another Baptist church, and two years later I was ordained.

I still hadn't come in contact with the Holy Ghost, and the gifts until I had a life-changing event. The event involved me being in the wrong place at the right time. I ran into a prophet, and let's just say that God revealed Himself in a mighty way. I could no longer deny that God still gave out gifts to His people. And even though I argued with God for a while longer, God began to show me that if I insisted on preaching in my own intellect, I was on my own.

You wrote it Dude...not me. In other posts when you wrote your "book' thorndaze.....you then speak of walking away fromGod for 14 years..a denial of sanctification....
You can say what you want,that is between you and God.You can claim being baptist all you want, Someone who starts as a baptist who becomes convinced of infant baptism...goes to a Presbyterian or christian reformed church.....does not say he is a baptist any longer.
Your theology is off.You are welcome to it,no one says you are not. Do not twist my words now because you are out of answers.
You believe my theology is off.I would expect as much so it does not bother me. Any moderator reading this would throw you out of the baptist section or why should there be one at all? I will not report you or your post because I do not believe in censorship.
You can call me names if you like

You have shown just how shallow a person you really are. Let's hope you don't practice your squeaky clean routine on others, who are more susceptible to your strong-armed tactics, or when they leave the church because of you and your interpretation of the Bible, their blood will be on your hands

We each will answer to God ,I will stay in the bible with my baptist friends who you say have a small God in the box theology.You can run outside the bible with your extrabiblical theology, rhyming noises,"Prophets", words of knowledge....yes you are "moving in the spirit" with your 5 fold ministry...yes for sure.

You told the other poster to buy your book.maybe he should look in the fiction section with the other outer body experiences.To liken yourself to the Apostle Paul is ludicrous. The theology you put forth is dangerous and in error. Like I maintain you are welcome to it.I will stick with what you call narrow, and small minded , the confessional faith that has been believed historically.:wavey: have a nice day:thumbsup:

 

[Alive in Christ]

How Do you feel About "Full Gospel" baptist churches?

I am generally fine with them so long as the are not propagating that hellish "name it and claim it" word of faith heresy.

 

[righteousdude2]

You Got Me....

Dude,

By your own words you said you were ordained to ministry without the HolyGhost...here is what you said;


You wrote it Dude...not me. In other posts when you wrote your "book' thorndaze.....you then speak of walking away fromGod for 14 years..a denial of sanctification....

And for anyone that thinks different, the title of my second book is "Thorn Daze: The PAINFUL Truth About Prosperity Teaching! " It looks like I may have burned bridges at both ends??? :laugh: And this book has nothing to do with what Icon is speaking about. He should have purchased the book as it would have made his claims more credible


Let's hope Icon doesn't interpret Scripture like he's interprets my books
You can say what you want,that is between you and God.You can claim being baptist all you want, Someone who starts as a baptist who becomes convinced of infant baptism...goes to a Presbyterian or christian reformed church.....does not say he is a baptist any longer.
Your theology is off.You are welcome to it,no one says you are not. Do not twist my words now because you are out of answers.
You believe my theology is off.I would expect as much so it does not bother me. Any moderator reading this would throw you out of the baptist section or why should there be one at all? I will not report you or your post because I do not believe in censorship.
You can call me names if you like


We each will answer to God ,I will stay in the bible with my baptist friends who you say have a small God in the box theology.You can run outside the bible with your extrabiblical theology, rhyming noises,"Prophets", words of knowledge....yes you are "moving in the spirit" with your 5 fold ministry...yes for sure.

You told the other poster to buy your book.maybe he should look in the fiction section with the other outer body experiences.To liken yourself to the Apostle Paul is ludicrous. The theology you put forth is dangerous and in error. Like I maintain you are welcome to it.I will stick with what you call narrow, and small minded , the confessional faith that has been believed historically. have a nice day

What can I say. You got me. You have done a bang up cut and paste and drawing conclusions job, that I can't run away from it any longer. I give up. :sleep:

BTW - I hear you are being considered for a NASA deep space exploration position? You should be a natural at that job. I'll send them a letter of referrence using all of the assumptions you have used to corner and expose me.

Oh, you have a nice forever, too :tear:

 

[righteousdude2]

Thanks....

I am generally fine with them so long as the are not propagating that hellish "name it and claim it" word of faith heresy.

I'm on your side as I'm 110% against those NICI/WOF people. They are dangerous to anyone who really loves the Lord. I appreciate your honesty, and I truly agree that NICI is heresy.

And for anyone that thinks different, the title of my second book is "Thorn Daze: The PAINFUL Truth About Prosperity Teaching! "

 

[Baptist4life]

Righteousdude, I just finished reading this entire thread and Iconoclast is right. I don't know what you are, but BAPTIST, you are not.

 

[righteousdude2]

Is this...

Righteousdude, I just finished reading this entire thread and Iconoclast is right. I don't know what you are, but BAPTIST, you are not.

....another moniker [BB site] for Iconoclast? :laugh:

 

[Iconoclast]

righteousdude2

BTW - I hear you are being considered for a NASA deep space exploration position? You should be a natural at that job. I'll send them a letter of referrence using all of the assumptions you have used to corner and expose me.

:wavey:
Good one dude:thumbsup:
Although if some one at nasa reads this thread they might just call on you to perform one of your out of body experiences......go green...think of all the fuel you will save them:laugh:

Also take note.....Baptist 4 life has almost never agreed with me on doctrinal issues,however he is objective enough to know what he is reading...

Dude....you might not accept it from me.....but I would urge you to stay in the safety of the scripture,like Noah stayed in the safety of the Ark.....

 

[righteousdude2]

Does Anyone Know What Iconoclast Means?

For starters it is a heretic, dissenter, malcontent, skeptic, rebel, subversive and mutineer. :wavey:

 

[righteousdude2]

Great Example....

righteousdude2

I would urge you to stay in the safety of the scripture,like Noah stayed in the safety of the Ark.....

Who are you to say that I am not within the realms of Scripture? After all, what Noah did was considered strange, and he claimed that God's spirit told him to build that thing. How would you have judged him had you lived in those days, with hardly any Scripture to support his claims??? I guess you would have drowned in your suppositions.

If you want me to be kin to Noah, so be it. Just don't look for an invitation when the day of judgment comes :laugh:

 

[Iconoclast]

For starters it is a heretic, dissenter, malcontent, skeptic, rebel, subversive and mutineer. :

1.
a person who attacks cherished beliefs, traditional institutions, etc., as being based on error or superstition.
2.
a breaker or destroyer of images, especially those set up for religious veneration

The false RC church described the iconoclasts in that way.....nice try Dude
:laugh::laugh::wavey:.

 

[righteousdude2]

Well...

1.
a person who attacks cherished beliefs [can't believe that you'd refer to my beliefs as "Cherished and traditional." Unless you are finally accepting the things you are accusing me of as being cherished and traditional???], traditional institutions, etc., as being based on error or superstition.
2.
a breaker or destroyer [where in the Scripture does God call any of us to "Destroy one another?] of images, especially those set up for religious veneration [and you are boasting in the fact that you go around DESTROYING others? How interesting? Your mama, friends on the BB and God must be very proud of your accomplishments, all in the name of the Baptist denomination. Which ever sect of the denomination you are coming from???]

The false RC church described the iconoclasts in that way.....nice try Dude

:tear::tear::tear:

 

[Iconoclast]

Who are you to say that I am not within the realms of Scripture? After all, what Noah did was considered strange, and he claimed that God's spirit told him to build that thing. How would you have judged him had you lived in those days, with hardly any Scripture to support his claims??? I guess you would have drowned in your suppositions.

If you want me to be kin to Noah, so be it. Just don't look for an invitation when the day of judgment comes :laugh:

Dude,

The point was Noah being warned of God....moved with fear..preparing the Ark....he then stayed in it's safety.....he did not wander outside the ark , looking for a prophet, or outer body experience. He stayed in the place of safety.i urge you to do the same......

Well Dude ....nice to chat with you but i must return to work now....will check back in about 5 hours, or 290 miles...whichever happens first:wavey:

[where in the Scripture does God call any of us to "Destroy one another?]

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

The scripture alone illuminated by the Spirit is our source of truth, not anecdotal stories and ideas.

 

[righteousdude2]

Enough is Enough!

I am not going to respond to any more accusations on behalf of those who stand behind the half-baked suppositions of Iconoclast.

Also, I apologise if at anytime I demonstrated my flesh in responding to Icon. It wasn't on purpose. I am still a human, not perfect, just forgiven, and I am still trying to grow in my walk.

I am through trying to explain myself, only to have more cut and paste assumptions made.

As I said, I am saved, filled with the Holy Ghost, and I have proven myself to the Southern Baptist Conference. I am in good standing, and hold my ordination papers with the conference, and having proven myself before those on the examination committee are all I need to do.

If certain people are not happy with that, so be it. I will be in eternity with you all, like it or not, and you may be surprised at what heaven will actually be like, just as I'm sure I will be surprised too!

It is not for man to pass judgment on one another, so, "Enough is enough!"

Peace to Icon, and B4h! If you want to believe you have the answers to who and what I am, so be it. More power to you, because I am still trying to figure out things about my salvation and the Lord, who called me to the ministry. There is a greater number of mysteries to uncover than whether or not I am a Baptist.

I appreciate all the interest, and the free advertisements for my books. However, I am ready to move on, and I hope you [who are setting themselves up as judge and jury] are ready to find more interesting things to discuss than ME??? :wavey:

 

[righteousdude2]

That Explains it...

Dude,

Well Dude ....nice to chat with you but i must return to work now....will check back in about 5 hours, or 290 miles...whichever happens first:wavey:

Maybe you'd better pull off the road before you try texting a response. It is dangerous to you, and especially others, to drive and text. And if you weren't so rushed in trying to counter punch me, while driving and doing your job, maybe you'd get more things correct. :laugh:

Be safe.

 

[righteousdude2]

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

That's your response? That's what you base all this hyperbole upon? Wow, that is really stretching Scripture to fit your own desires. What a shame! I do feel badly for you. but, as I said above, I've enjoyed all the exposure. It doesn't hurt to be the center of attention once in a while :wavey:

 

[TCGreek]

We're not heretic hunters.

 

[righteousdude2]

We're not heretic hunters.

It would seem that this is a true statement. However, there are those who are hunters and destroyers, and that makes this board an interesting yet a difficult place to be.

I know that I try to be transparent in order to help others see that they are not alone in some of the things they go through in this life and in their walk.

HOWEVER, transparency seems to be biting me in the backside, w\especially when some on the board use what I say to make me look like something I'm not.

I've been told not to be so transparent, but my book, Prodigal Daze and Thorn Daze have truly helped a great many folks [from the letters, and feedback received] so I'll have to risk the attacks from some who are heretic hunters, judge and jury and looking to be King of the hill!

Personally, I prefer to be a witness. It is more than enough of a challenge; after all, I've witnessed the spiritual damage that WOF folks have done on those who left the church because they were told they had lacked something, weren't born-again [or they'd be healed when prayed for, etc.], or were judged for not giving enough money to the church.

I guess every denomination has its judges, even the OT has a book titled, Judges? :laugh:

Self prclaimed judges within denominations are more dangerous than spirited filled Baptist, IMHO!

 

[righteousdude2]

An Apology to Icon?

According to the following "By your own words you said you were ordained to ministry without the HolyGhost...here is what you said; Quote:
I hooked on as music minister and associate pastor at another Baptist church, and two years later I was ordained.

I still hadn't come in contact with the Holy Ghost, and the gifts until I had a life-changing event."

YOu are right, after re reading the texts I clearly mis-spoke. What I meant was that until that service where a prophet was present, I hadn't seen or heard that side of the Holy Ghost. In no way did I mean that I had never received the infilling of the Holy Ghost. I had the Holy Ghost when I was ordained. I just never experienced the use of these gifts in a way that manifested that night. And while I wanted to question everything that was taking place, God was so real during that event in my life, that to deny what I observed would have been a kin to calling God a liar.

I did purchase a copy of the incident/event, and the more I listened to it, the more convinced I was that God could and still did things in the supernatural that we didn't understand or always have an explanation for. It wasn't outside the Scripture, in fact; it was similar to what happened on Pentecost, as I observed the presence of the Spirit descend on the place, and especially in my life, heart and soul.

As I said in an earlier post, if we proclaim that God can do miracles, why can't God still talk to His children and manifest Hmself in supernatural ways? To believe in miracles but not in the equipping of the saints with gifts that were used throughout both the OT and the NT, would be wrong. And after years of believing just that [that the gifts of Pentecost ended at Pentecost] I could no longer deny or argue the point. Like I said, you'd have to have been there and to have been in my shoes. Had you were, I am sure you'd be on the other side of the topic.

The difference between me and others in the charismatic movement is that I have never once preached that what God gave me was something that everyone was supposed to have as a sign of their holiness.

I didn't believe then, and I still don't believe that one gift is superior or inferior to another. I just believe that God is not limited by what scholar on one side of this issue claim God is limited to.

He is a supernatural God [I don't think anyone here can say He isn't? After all, the Bible is filled from Genesis to Revelations with supernatural events. Even Paul told us to put on the supernatural equipment and take up the supernatural weapons of faith - which is supernatural too - to fight the supernatural enemy]. He has always done things that are out of the norm. Noah was questioned as to his being told to build the ark. Jonah knew what he was to do, and he ran until God prepared a fish for him. Daniel did some extraordinary things. And who was willing to believe Jonah wneh he told them of the fish swallowing him?

And in case you forget, in Catholic circles, they teach that all the above a merely stories or parables to strengthen and challenge our faith?Catholic theologians still call these "stories" and not historical facts. In my Biblical Worldview, these are ALL historical facts.

If we begin to limit God to what we think He can and should do, we are in danger of limiting His ability to work with and through us.

So again, I see where Icon could get all excited over what I miss poke, and I apologize. My bad!

If you don't know what I am, let me say that maybe I'm just a progressive prototype of what God has in mind for the end of days.

To quote the Word:

New International Version (©1984)
"'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

New Living Translation (©2007)
In the last days,' God says, 'I will pour out my Spirit upon all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy. Your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams.

English Standard Version (©2001)
“‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
And it will be in the last days, says God, that I will pour out My Spirit on all humanity; then your sons and your daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams.

International Standard Version (©2012)
In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on everyone. Your sons and your daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams.

When this event took place, I was still rather young, so I'd like to think? :laugh:

 

[Iconoclast]

righteousdude2

I am not going to respond to any more accusations on behalf of those who stand behind the half-baked suppositions of Iconoclast.

You were quoted accurately and have made the claims you have....nothing half baked about it.

Also, I apologise if at anytime I demonstrated my flesh in responding to Icon. It wasn't on purpose. I am still a human, not perfect, just forgiven, and I am still trying to grow in my walk.

I came right up against what you posted so I expect some negative reaction most times . The twisting and false things you claim because you over-reacted do need to be apologized for. Everyone gets a bit heated in here for the most part.

I am through trying to explain myself, only to have more cut and paste assumptions made.

Your own words were quoted....people can see the previous posts and see it was so.

As I said, I am saved, filled with the Holy Ghost, and I have proven myself to the Southern Baptist Conference. I am in good standing, and hold my ordination papers with the conference, and having proven myself before those on the examination committee are all I need to do.

If certain people are not happy with that, so be it.

That was not called into question.....your other claims were.It is not a matter of being happy or not.

I will be in eternity with you all, like it or not, and you may be surprised at what heaven will actually be like, just as I'm sure I will be surprised too!

None of us understands what heaven will be like...we only are given a small glimpse.

It is not for man to pass judgment on one another,

We are to make righteous judgement...as posted previously Jn 7:24

so, "Enough is enough!"

Enough is enough...you made your claims, responses were offered about the content of your posts.

Peace to Icon, and B4h!

:wavey:

If you want to believe you have the answers to who and what I am, so be it. More power to you

,

We are responding to the ideas.stories and theology you offered.We have more things to look at as you say. Your ideas publically posted do not get a free pass because of this judge not line.
If I start posting in a baptist forum and start quoting from the book of nephi....then say ...but I am still a baptist...I should be called on it.

Lee Strobel was not allowed to post in the baptist forum because they said he was non denominational...why should you be immune?

because I am still trying to figure out things about my salvation and the Lord

,

Everyone here is.

Maybe you'd better pull off the road before you try texting a response. It is dangerous to you, and especially others, to drive and text. And if you weren't so rushed in trying to counter punch me, while driving and doing your job, maybe you'd get more things correct.

i was off the road at the truckstop for dinner break...I do not text and drive, that is illegal. Actually it winds up that over a year ago i had it right and you have finally acknowledged it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iconoclast View Post
(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
That's your response? That's what you base all this hyperbole upon? Wow, that is really stretching Scripture to fit your own desires. What a shame! I do feel badly for you.

i was trying to get back to work,so i offered one verse..If you want more...not a problem....
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Any supposed additional revelation would violate these verses..there are no apostles,no prophets on earth today. We have a complete revelation as Jesus promised that the APOSTLES would be guided into ALL TRUTH,jn 14,15,16---- you are not an apostle:smilewinkgrin:

12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds

there are many verses that show this...but I am confident you are not so interested in them.