trainbrainmommy
New Member
Shiloh said:
Imprecatory prayers! :tonofbricks:
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How do you handle a pastor who has been lying about you?
- Thread starter doodlebug
- Start date
Imprecatory prayers! :tonofbricks:
Has anyone else noticed how these situations discussed on this thread were so horribly excacerbated by gossip? "So-and-so came and told me the pastor was lying", "so-and-so said he did this", "so-and-so told me "a" happened when really "b, c, d, and e happened."
People, we have to stop listening to the gossipers, too! If someone comes to you and tells you something (an accusation of an elder), take THEM with you, and go TO the elder! Ask the elder about it, and if he has an explanation the BIBLE says we are not to hear an accusation against an elder unless it is in the mouth of two or three witnesses.
I know that in the cases discussed on here they had ample witnesses, so Im not saying that the OPer or anyone else who gave their example was wrong.......but it seems like there was alot of going around trying to gather info, or going around and trying to gather people to one side or the other. Im more speaking of the instances when posters here mentioned someone else coming to them to bring stories about the pastor.
Deacons are not the only people who can do things in a church besides the pastor. Just because the deacons won't "stand up and say something" doesn't mean that you can't. However, what you do say should be said to the pastor (or elder being accused), and/or to the person in authority over him.
Go look up your church constitution and find out what is in place there to deal with "pastoral issues".
People, we have to stop listening to the gossipers, too! If someone comes to you and tells you something (an accusation of an elder), take THEM with you, and go TO the elder! Ask the elder about it, and if he has an explanation the BIBLE says we are not to hear an accusation against an elder unless it is in the mouth of two or three witnesses.
I know that in the cases discussed on here they had ample witnesses, so Im not saying that the OPer or anyone else who gave their example was wrong.......but it seems like there was alot of going around trying to gather info, or going around and trying to gather people to one side or the other. Im more speaking of the instances when posters here mentioned someone else coming to them to bring stories about the pastor.
Deacons are not the only people who can do things in a church besides the pastor. Just because the deacons won't "stand up and say something" doesn't mean that you can't. However, what you do say should be said to the pastor (or elder being accused), and/or to the person in authority over him.
Go look up your church constitution and find out what is in place there to deal with "pastoral issues".
Joshua Rhodes
<img src=/jrhodes.jpg>
Shiloh said:
Maybe he's not a member of the BB.
trainbrainmommy
New Member
Shiloh said:
Maybe it's because he's posting in the pastoral ministries thread about horrible churches.
It is very hard to resist hearing the latest news. I eventually realized that it did not do any good for me to hear the latest rumor going around our old church. I have confronted my former pastor both scripturally and otherwise. And I have asked his forgiveness for when my unscriptural confrontation. However, niether my confrontation, nor confronting with witnesses, nor going through any appropriate channel at the church brought about his repentence. I am satisifed that I have done all I can and should according to scripture. God has blessed my family and I tremendously through the process.
As for prayer, I pray for my former pastor daily. He was my pastor and trusted friend for many years. In ministry together there were many times that I know his heart was sincere. Many circumstances changed in his life and I perhaps this lead to some of his problems. As a pastor, I pray for God's grace and mercy that the things I have seen in him do not become something others see in me.
As for prayer, I pray for my former pastor daily. He was my pastor and trusted friend for many years. In ministry together there were many times that I know his heart was sincere. Many circumstances changed in his life and I perhaps this lead to some of his problems. As a pastor, I pray for God's grace and mercy that the things I have seen in him do not become something others see in me.
trainbrainmommy said:Maybe it's because he's posting in the pastoral ministries thread about horrible churches.
Hey...I posted my story in both!!! :tonofbricks:
How does wind up dealing with a church that eats you alive and a pastor that lies to you?
In hindsight...there were a million red flags that I missed.
Which might lead to a more positive thread. What are some signs of a healthy church?
2 Timothy2:1-4
New Member
1Ti 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses
Your story has not met this criteria. Each individaul lie must have the witness of two or three. To ignore this passage in handling this is sinnful. If there are not two or more witnesses to this accusation then let it go.
Your story has not met this criteria. Each individaul lie must have the witness of two or three. To ignore this passage in handling this is sinnful. If there are not two or more witnesses to this accusation then let it go.
2 Timothy2:1-4 said:
About 15 years ago, in my home church, an accusation of adultery came against the pastor. A person who only rarely attended the church came forward sayign that they had seen the pastor check in to a hotel (where they worked) under an assumed name, ordered dinner for two, and they knew a woman had been in the room.
The pastor had a story to account for these things, and as far fetched as it was, the deacons were wise and followed this verse. Without witnesses they would not act. IT was not 6 months that another situation arose, and the pastor had to resign. IT was rough, but the church is much, much, stronger for it now. Had the deacons tried to act on the first charge, it would have been ugly and damaging to the church.
So again, the answer to the OP is follow scripture.
Gayla said:
perhaps you've already thought of this, but maybe your unease comes from the new pastor wanting to change some things? Change isn't always bad, as long as it isn't unBiblical, but change can often make us feel uncomfortable.
If you can't yet pinpoint any problem, than maybe there isn't one. I mean, we're talking about almost 3 years here.
Just a thought!
:saint:
This has been touched on, but here-goes again:
Use names when confronting your pastor. Make sure before listening to an evil report that the reporter understands you will use his name. "1 Cor 1:11, For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe . . ."
Use names when confronting your pastor. Make sure before listening to an evil report that the reporter understands you will use his name. "1 Cor 1:11, For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe . . ."
Joshua Rhodes
<img src=/jrhodes.jpg>
I hate hearing from someone who starts out with "I heard..." or "Someone said..." or my personal favorite "They told me..."
I'm really sorry if people think that I may be hearing gossip, that is something I have struggled with - what is gossip? Is telling the truth gossip? Is telling a prayer request gossip? I think when someone shares something with you, and you have facts or history with a person to back it up, it is not gossip. There is a lot more to this, as I've said. If you research my previous posts you will find that there is a lot of other problems in our church such as the treasurer/SS Secretary caught stealing money (the bank records were destroyed and no one was allowed to audit the account, btw, did I mention she is the sister-in-law of the head deacon), the youth director (who also substitute preached for our pastor) and his wife was accused (by his own admission) of child abuse and had to go to court but was allowed to remain in his position and allowed in the pulpit, and the list goes on. We have two deacons who don't agree, an independent pastor in a SB church, and no constitution (though we have by-laws- how is that possible?). In the past, we have attempted with one other couple to reconcile according to Matthew 18, and we were told by the head deacon that in the 30 years he's been a deacon at the church, he has never implemented Matthew 18, and he did not intend on starting now.
As for more of my particular situation right now, one person is willing to go before the pastor as our witness to what was said. This person is my husband's sister. She was a member of our church, and stopped speaking to us after we took a stand against the youth leader accused of abuse. We went to our pastor to ask if he would go with us to try and reconcile the relationship and he said "it wouldn't do any good". We went to our pastor to ask often how sis-in-law and her family were, and he would tell us they were having money problems, or that he was concerned that sis-in-law was having an affair with another married man in the church. The pastor's wife was counseling me, and shared that another couple wanted her and the pastor to come and spy on my sis-in-law when they all went camping one summer. Almost 2 years went by without much word from my sis-in-law, just usual courtesy chat. Then, she got sick, I guess got a new perspective on life, and my husband was having surgery, and she showed up to wait with me in the waiting area...this was the first time we really talked in almost 2 years. By the next few weeks, she and my husband started talking, and trying to figure out where it all went wrong. Sis-in-law shares what the pastor was telling her which was the same thing he was telling us - don't talk to them, it won't do any good. She told that when they were into church softball, the pastor told them we were against it (another lie). She told of an instance, just after she left the church, where the pastor came to her house and told her again, not to listen to anything her brother would tell her. She also told us what would happen when we left. So far, she has been exactly right.
There was another occasion when I inquired why I hadn't heard from a friend in the church, she told me that she was told not to speak to me by the pastor. You have to understand that the pastor always used to share "privilege" information with my husband (in defense of my husband, he did come to a point where he realized that others were being told the same information, and he did stop that kind of discussion). He spoke of a man who he was having problems with in the church. This man taught our children's class along with his wife, and my husband felt based on what the pastor said, it was best to remove our children from the class. We did so. A woman in our church started speaking out in a public manner about various things she heard about this same man. It was the same things that our pastor said he was confidently sharing with my husband. I confronted our pastor along with my husband, as I was the one who heard what the woman said, and he denied any knowledge where the woman would have heard these things, and said "who listens to her anyway?". My husband didn't call the pastor out on the lie even though he admitted he knew it was a lie. This goes round and round. When I compare what reason my sis-in-law would have to lie, and why the pastor would have to lie - I know my sis-in-law is telling the truth because of history. She might have stopped talking to us, but she has never lied us. The pastor has lied more times than I can count. If you look at what we have to work with, there is no choice but for us to leave quietly and without confronting the pastor - he will deny the truth, he will attempt to ruin our reputation, and he will say things about us, just as he did about our sis-in-law when they left the church. You have read what the Bible speak about in talking to a "fool"? Proof is when you walk into your church, and no one will talk to you. You sit in your usual spot, but when you sit down, all the people who normally sit by you, get up and move away. When you go to shake hands, only your closest friends will speak and shake your hand. I mean, really, when you go to shake someone's hand and they won't even respond, and they literally turn their back to you for no reason, you know something is wrong.
We have peace, God has opened so many doors, and the good feeling is that several churches actually want us. We have received several phone calls from pastors in the area who know about my husband and about the work we have done over the last couple of years. They want us to come and visit their churches. This all happened when my husband decided to leave....we had not even told our church or anyone. How can that not be God working?:godisgood:
As for more of my particular situation right now, one person is willing to go before the pastor as our witness to what was said. This person is my husband's sister. She was a member of our church, and stopped speaking to us after we took a stand against the youth leader accused of abuse. We went to our pastor to ask if he would go with us to try and reconcile the relationship and he said "it wouldn't do any good". We went to our pastor to ask often how sis-in-law and her family were, and he would tell us they were having money problems, or that he was concerned that sis-in-law was having an affair with another married man in the church. The pastor's wife was counseling me, and shared that another couple wanted her and the pastor to come and spy on my sis-in-law when they all went camping one summer. Almost 2 years went by without much word from my sis-in-law, just usual courtesy chat. Then, she got sick, I guess got a new perspective on life, and my husband was having surgery, and she showed up to wait with me in the waiting area...this was the first time we really talked in almost 2 years. By the next few weeks, she and my husband started talking, and trying to figure out where it all went wrong. Sis-in-law shares what the pastor was telling her which was the same thing he was telling us - don't talk to them, it won't do any good. She told that when they were into church softball, the pastor told them we were against it (another lie). She told of an instance, just after she left the church, where the pastor came to her house and told her again, not to listen to anything her brother would tell her. She also told us what would happen when we left. So far, she has been exactly right.
There was another occasion when I inquired why I hadn't heard from a friend in the church, she told me that she was told not to speak to me by the pastor. You have to understand that the pastor always used to share "privilege" information with my husband (in defense of my husband, he did come to a point where he realized that others were being told the same information, and he did stop that kind of discussion). He spoke of a man who he was having problems with in the church. This man taught our children's class along with his wife, and my husband felt based on what the pastor said, it was best to remove our children from the class. We did so. A woman in our church started speaking out in a public manner about various things she heard about this same man. It was the same things that our pastor said he was confidently sharing with my husband. I confronted our pastor along with my husband, as I was the one who heard what the woman said, and he denied any knowledge where the woman would have heard these things, and said "who listens to her anyway?". My husband didn't call the pastor out on the lie even though he admitted he knew it was a lie. This goes round and round. When I compare what reason my sis-in-law would have to lie, and why the pastor would have to lie - I know my sis-in-law is telling the truth because of history. She might have stopped talking to us, but she has never lied us. The pastor has lied more times than I can count. If you look at what we have to work with, there is no choice but for us to leave quietly and without confronting the pastor - he will deny the truth, he will attempt to ruin our reputation, and he will say things about us, just as he did about our sis-in-law when they left the church. You have read what the Bible speak about in talking to a "fool"? Proof is when you walk into your church, and no one will talk to you. You sit in your usual spot, but when you sit down, all the people who normally sit by you, get up and move away. When you go to shake hands, only your closest friends will speak and shake your hand. I mean, really, when you go to shake someone's hand and they won't even respond, and they literally turn their back to you for no reason, you know something is wrong.
We have peace, God has opened so many doors, and the good feeling is that several churches actually want us. We have received several phone calls from pastors in the area who know about my husband and about the work we have done over the last couple of years. They want us to come and visit their churches. This all happened when my husband decided to leave....we had not even told our church or anyone. How can that not be God working?:godisgood:
dear doodlebug,
honestly, I feel such sympathy for you....I am not saying that in a condescending manner nor with anything but honest sincerity. From your posts there is alot of evidence that you and yours have been mistreated. I guess my post was more of a warning and pointing out that often we make our own mistreatment worse because we listen to the gossip that is going around.
and yes, telling the truth can still be gossip. A "prayer request" is OFTEN just a term someone will use in order to try and dress up the gossip they are about to spread to you. This can then take you completely by surprise! I know, Ive been there! And all of a sudden I know more than I had ever wanted to know about the situation!
All in all, your posts have most often amazed me at what the pastor was willing to "share" with you. This is not to say it was your fault, I know I would have been way too intimidated to ask a pastor to stop telling me gossip! But there you go, even pastors can fall into the trap of trying to get others to commiserate with him. Still, it astounds me that a pastor would go around telling people private things about others.
I think you are doing good to leave. After all you've written, I hope that you find a good solid church to really serve God in.
Make sure you go to the place God wants you in.
honestly, I feel such sympathy for you....I am not saying that in a condescending manner nor with anything but honest sincerity. From your posts there is alot of evidence that you and yours have been mistreated. I guess my post was more of a warning and pointing out that often we make our own mistreatment worse because we listen to the gossip that is going around.
and yes, telling the truth can still be gossip. A "prayer request" is OFTEN just a term someone will use in order to try and dress up the gossip they are about to spread to you. This can then take you completely by surprise! I know, Ive been there! And all of a sudden I know more than I had ever wanted to know about the situation!
All in all, your posts have most often amazed me at what the pastor was willing to "share" with you. This is not to say it was your fault, I know I would have been way too intimidated to ask a pastor to stop telling me gossip! But there you go, even pastors can fall into the trap of trying to get others to commiserate with him. Still, it astounds me that a pastor would go around telling people private things about others.
I think you are doing good to leave. After all you've written, I hope that you find a good solid church to really serve God in.
Make sure you go to the place God wants you in.