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How do you identify yourself?

Benjamin

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
All of these different labels described Christ and who He is. How ever Arminian or Pelagan or Universalist do not describe me.
Pelagius did not believe man needed any divine intervention. I’m saved and I know better. With out the Holy Spirits intervention convicting me and convincing me of the gospel I never would have submitted to Christ.
Arminius has his own 5 point doctrine I do not believe as He did. I do not believe man can loose his Salvation or, that man is so totally depraved that he can’t come to Christ with out regeneration
Universalism is another I do not believe in. I do not believe all men and women will be saved eventually.
Calvinist on this board use these labels to insult those they disagree with.

Even when Calvinist call people freewillers while the term may be right they then redefine it to mean that those with free will are degrading God’s Sovereignty. When Sovereignty does not mean that we can’t have a choice with out God loosing His Sovereignty. A sovereign God can and does allow men certain freedoms. We do not live under a God who is totalitarian in His nature.
MB

You think of labels more in terms of what you are not; pretty much along the lines as I. It is more desirable, logically so, for me if i were to accept labels to use something like: Anti-Determinist, Anti-Any Moment Flyaway Escapist Theory, Anti-Dispeller of Divine Foreknowledge, :D etc., but as soon as I would take a positive label on, such as a Molinist for example, even though I basically agree to what they are grounded to, it seems attach me to all their reasoning, or premises, in how they are rooted to that grounding which sometimes I do not see the same way and thereby don't want to defend the label.

So positive labels of agreement can carry with them what I may perceive as some undesirable traits (premises) by suggesting how I would be in agreement with all the aspects (conclusions) which have been “established by others” systematic reasoning for "their" arguments, not mine. But negative labels which specify that which you are in disagreement with tend to not so easily follow with suggestions of how you must reason for what you are against. In others words it is much easier to be specific on the principles you stand against in your reasoning and to tear down a view you are opposed to and to label those things you are opposed to.

In any argument based on logic it takes 2 truth premises working together to be valid before a conclusion can be claimed to be true, but it only takes 1 false premise even if the other is true to end up carrying a conclusion to be false.

T + T = T
T + F = F
F + T = F
F + F = F

The odds are you can more easily prove and maintain your position on something false by claiming it to be false through labeling yourself as being in disagreement with it. If one is going to take on a label it is more fun to be on the side having the winning advantage. :smilewinkgrin:

And yes, to attempt to pin labels on others to gain such an advantge, well, ...this forced on unwanted baggage automatically place him at a disadvantage, so naturally one having that done on him would ...:( on that "messed up" idea if he realizes the logic to odds going on here even if the label holds and is true! See, that is like "Determinist" not wanting to be seen to have taken on a bunch of UGLY! baggage and whatever they want to label themselves to hold their position the premises they attempt to hold CAN be truthfully attached to them and easily maintained and defined as being true because of them having to logically rest all their premises to be rooted to pre-determination, thus my favorite and truly defined label for them: "Determinist". So, it can be ethical sometimes to label the other's position and take advantage of that if label acurately defines them and is unescapably maintained as being logically true, whether they like it or not. :cool:
 
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Herald

New Member
PinoyBaptist,

I have a great deal of respect for my Primitive Baptist brethren. We differ in some areas, but I am heartened by the fact that they preach the Gospel.
 

saturneptune

New Member
Too broad and undefined for me. Tells me nothing, because it leaves me wondering how you define Radical. Are you some kind of right-wng nut-case, or a flaming liberal? I may draw from the label that you are pretty intense about living out your beliefs. But it tells me nothing about what they are.
In case any have wondered, Tom is an old earth, pre trib, universal church, open communion, Arminian Christian. Also, as a side note, he is a loyal Democrat with a humble, wall flower type demeanor.
 

Tom Butler

New Member
In case any have wondered, Tom is an old earth, pre trib, universal church, open communion, Arminian Christian. Also, as a side note, he is a loyal Democrat with a humble, wall flower type demeanor.

And as you can tell by his posts, I taught SN all that he knows.
 

Herald

New Member
Someone asked to define myself. Okay. I'll give it a go.

I was raised an Italian-American Roman Catholic near Newark, NJ. At 17 I said the sinners prayer at an Assembly of God church. I became involved in the Catholic Charismatic movement. I then went through a four year period of practical atheism. IMHO I truly came to faith in Christ after that period and joined a CBA church in northern NJ. A few years later saw me enroll in Bible college. I married, had a child, and ministered in a local church. At that time I was a card carrying DTS type dispensationalist and a self-described LFW guy. In the 1980's I began a study through Romans. That study lead me to Ephesians, Colossians, and Jeremiah. After a three year period of denial I finally had to admit that I no longer believed in LFW. I kept my new mongeristic convictions quiet for a few months just to make sure I wasn't over reacting. When I came clean I encountered further doubts. Dispensationalism fell by the wayside, but I was of yet ignorant of Covenant Theology. I began to study CT comparatively vs. Disp. Eventually I embraced CT.

I was not an ignorant LFW'er or dispensationalist. I thought those things with a passion. I considered monergism (aka Calvinism and DoG) error, but not damnable heresy. To be honest I accepted the caricature of monergism as taught by my profs without any serious study of my own. Today I serve in a Reformed Baptist Church. I preach, teach, and counsel.

Okay. That's my story with all its attached labels.
 
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Herald

New Member
Contrary to other monergists on this board who disagree with me, I do consider myself to be Reformed, although not in the vein of Presbyterian Reformed. I consider myself a Protestant. I concur with the Reformers on confessionalism and the means of grace contained in the Lord's Supper and baptism (although believers-only baptism). I believe in, and practice, the Regulative Principle, and consider myself a Sabbatarian (although I'm still being sanctified in this area). I do not believe that I am better than other Christians who hold to different convictions. I am simply being true to what I believe.
 

pinoybaptist

Active Member
Site Supporter
I too was glad to hear that. It is good to see you around again. Merry Christmas to you and your family. I see you sleep about as well as I do.

lifted me up, brother.
i thought you were one of those glad to see me not posting anymore. lol.
just kidding.
I make do with whatever sleep the Lord grants this creaking old house.
Merry Christmas to you, and yours, as well.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
All of these different labels described Christ and who He is. How ever Arminian or Pelagan or Universalist do not describe me.
Pelagius did not believe man needed any divine intervention. I’m saved and I know better. With out the Holy Spirits intervention convicting me and convincing me of the gospel I never would have submitted to Christ.
Arminius has his own 5 point doctrine I do not believe as He did. I do not believe man can loose his Salvation or, that man is so totally depraved that he can’t come to Christ with out regeneration
Universalism is another I do not believe in. I do not believe all men and women will be saved eventually.
Calvinist on this board use these labels to insult those they disagree with.

Even when Calvinist call people freewillers while the term may be right they then redefine it to mean that those with free will are degrading God’s Sovereignty. When Sovereignty does not mean that we can’t have a choice with out God loosing His Sovereignty. A sovereign God can and does allow men certain freedoms. We do not live under a God who is totalitarian in His nature.
MB

And what "Calvinist" / Your label, not mine.....do you suppose believes that? Again these are your presumptions (ones I fear you cannot get over). FYI, the "Calvinist" does not live under a God who is totalitarian in His nature.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
In case any have wondered, Tom is an old earth, pre trib, universal church, open communion, Arminian Christian. Also, as a side note, he is a loyal Democrat with a humble, wall flower type demeanor.

I know he is a geezer...... :love2:.....I do love him though. Been taught to respect my elders.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Someone asked to define myself. Okay. I'll give it a go.

I was raised an Italian-American Roman Catholic near Newark, NJ. At 17 I said the sinners prayer at an Assembly of God church. I became involved in the Catholic Charismatic movement. I then went through a four year period of practical atheism. IMHO I truly came to faith in Christ after that period and joined a CBA church in northern NJ. A few years later saw me enroll in Bible college. I married, had a child, and ministered in a local church. At that time I was a card carrying DTS type dispensationalist and a self-described LFW guy. In the 1980's I began a study through Romans. That study lead me to Ephesians, Colossians, and Jeremiah. After a three year period of denial I finally had to admit that I no longer believed in LFW. I kept my new mongeristic convictions quiet for a few months just to make sure I wasn't over reacting. When I came clean I encountered further doubts. Dispensationalism fell by the wayside, but I was of yet ignorant of Covenant Theology. I began to study CT comparatively vs. Disp. Eventually I embraced CT.

I was not an ignorant LFW'er or dispensationalist. I thought those things with a passion. I considered monergism (aka Calvinism and DoG) error, but not damnable heresy. To be honest I accepted the caricature of monergism as taught by my profs without any serious study of my own. Today I serve in a Reformed Baptist Church. I preach, teach, and counsel.

Okay. That's my story with all its attached labels.

OK, a Jersey Boy...... What type of Italian? Cant believe your mother at 17 would have allowed you access to "holy rollers". More importantly, do you have access to Pechters Sour Dough Rye Bread & Calandra's or Cucuzzella's Bakery for Italian Bread & Pastries? How can you live without good biscotti & cannoli? Jersey beckons....& there is no place like home for the Holidays! (Perry Como)
 
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Herald

New Member
EWF,

Calandra's bread made the best sub rolls. Pechter's of Harrison had pumpernickle that was fantastic. I grew up in Kearny and Sansone's market was the place we got all our Provolone and meats. The pizza from Pizzaland in North Arlington was my favorite.

I need some Taylor ham!
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
EWF,

Calandra's bread made the best sub rolls. Pechter's of Harrison had pumpernickle that was fantastic. I grew up in Kearny and Sansone's market was the place we got all our Provolone and meats. The pizza from Pizzaland in North Arlington was my favorite.

I need some Taylor ham!

And a pizza with anchovies......I will have to make a run to Calandras tomorrow in Fairfield on my way into Maywood for some Christmas stuff. Cannolies are my German/Scots wifes favorite LOL!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
And what "Calvinist" / Your label, not mine.....do you suppose believes that? Again these are your presumptions (ones I fear you cannot get over). FYI, the "Calvinist" does not live under a God who is totalitarian in His nature.

No, we 'calvinist" just agree with the biblical text that we are all spiritually dead in Adam, so we have now a "free will" that is limited by being a sin nature in choosing!
 

saturneptune

New Member
And a pizza with anchovies......I will have to make a run to Calandras tomorrow in Fairfield on my way into Maywood for some Christmas stuff. Cannolies are my German/Scots wifes favorite LOL!
Sounds good to me. If you need my address, you can mail me some. Anchovies though, are not something I can eat everyday, but every now and then.

Getting back to the name Calvin, there would be more honor in naming Doctrines of Grace after the comic strip Calvin than the long dead theologean Calvin.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sounds good to me. If you need my address, you can mail me some. Anchovies though, are not something I can eat everyday, but every now and then.

Getting back to the name Calvin, there would be more honor in naming Doctrines of Grace after the comic strip Calvin than the long dead theologean Calvin.

Why? John Calvin was one of the greatest non Apostolic authors to ever live!
 

MB

Well-Known Member
Someone asked to define myself. Okay. I'll give it a go.

I was raised an Italian-American Roman Catholic near Newark, NJ. At 17 I said the sinners prayer at an Assembly of God church. I became involved in the Catholic Charismatic movement. I then went through a four year period of practical atheism. IMHO I truly came to faith in Christ after that period and joined a CBA church in northern NJ. A few years later saw me enroll in Bible college. I married, had a child, and ministered in a local church. At that time I was a card carrying DTS type dispensationalist and a self-described LFW guy. In the 1980's I began a study through Romans. That study lead me to Ephesians, Colossians, and Jeremiah. After a three year period of denial I finally had to admit that I no longer believed in LFW. I kept my new mongeristic convictions quiet for a few months just to make sure I wasn't over reacting. When I came clean I encountered further doubts. Dispensationalism fell by the wayside, but I was of yet ignorant of Covenant Theology. I began to study CT comparatively vs. Disp. Eventually I embraced CT.

I was not an ignorant LFW'er or dispensationalist. I thought those things with a passion. I considered monergism (aka Calvinism and DoG) error, but not damnable heresy. To be honest I accepted the caricature of monergism as taught by my profs without any serious study of my own. Today I serve in a Reformed Baptist Church. I preach, teach, and counsel.

Okay. That's my story with all its attached labels.

Really and you call us "freewillers" inconsistent LOL ! when you waver back and forth like a reed in the wind.
MB
 

Jack Matthews

New Member
So much of this is essentially meaningless. The Reformation was a big step forward for Christ's church, but to get hung up on nuances of interpretation from that period of time, to the point where it affects how you look at other people and the sincerity of their faith is counterproductive to the mission and purpose of the church. Once individual identities get wrapped up in attempting to fill in the gaps in security in their own faith, fellowship gets broken when it shouldn't.
 
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