How do you know (2)?

[DesiderioDomini]

once again, the Mormons have blind faith too.

Why are they not saved? What makes their faith not pleasing to God?

Because of the FACTS behind that faith. Once is true, and one isnt.

No one can have faith without facts.

 

[robycop3]

Faith without any basis of fact is guesswork and wishful thinking, nothing else. A person with BLIND faith will accept anything some eloquent speaker says. That's how many goofy theories about Christianity and worship have gotten started.

Remember, BIBLICAL faith is based upon SUBSTANCE AND EVIDENCE, as Scripture says, and not guesswork.

 

[mima]

If your faith depends on substance and evidence, you are not practicing faith at all but rather you are believing in a set of facts. Substance and evidence(such as presented in a courtroom) make up a set of facts not faith. Blind faith is correct faith but strangely I cannot command it ( bring about) this type of faith. Yes I have experienced this type of faith many times in the past yet it seems not to be mine to bring about as I will.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

None of you, I daresay, have seen Jesus face to face, yet you believe in Him. Why? Because the Bible attests that there is such a person?

Many books have been written about other gods and legendary creatures throughout history. Why not believe in them too? After all, it is written in books.

One accepts the Bible as truth by faith. It is by faith we accpept Christ. Call it what you will, but I have blind faith in the promises written in God's Holy Word.

One has faith they will enter God's Holy Kingdom. Pictures have been painted through John's eyewitness account in Revelation. We take John's account in faith that he wrote what Jesus Christ revealed. No other account is written. Yet God's Word says 'in the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established'. We have one account, so we must believe that one account on blind faith.

Faith is trusting that what is written in God's Word is true. Faith is trust. One cannot see trust Faith is the evidence and substance. You cannot see faith, you just have to believe.

Blind faith.

What about people who have no vision, such as myself? I cannot see. Is my faith that which I have seen? Or for a deaf person? Cannot hear the Word, but able to read. Is their faith something they have heard.

The hearing that produces faith is listening to the Spirit. Not what man says. Not what one can see. We walk by faith, not by sight.

 

[DeclareHim]

Originally posted by TCassidy:
Faith should never be blind. True faith should always be informed faith. Romans tells us that "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." If our faith is not solidly informed by the word of God, it is not faith, it is folly!

I would agree with this statement a lot. I don't think Modern Christians are informed enough. That's why the Mormons claim 120,000+ converts from Protestant Christianity.

 

[DesiderioDomini]

None of you, I daresay, have seen Jesus face to face, yet you believe in Him. Why? Because the Bible attests that there is such a person?

The bible is history, and history is supported by facts. Are you aware of the archeological and historical evidences supporting the bible? I think that makes it clear that our faith is supported by FACTS.

Many books have been written about other gods and legendary creatures throughout history. Why not believe in them too? After all, it is written in books.

because those books lack the emperical data supporting them in the way the bible does. Once again, faith is only useful if it is SUPPORTED by facts.

One accepts the Bible as truth by faith. It is by faith we accpept Christ. Call it what you will, but I have blind faith in the promises written in God's Holy Word.

Then you must be wholly ignorant of all the facts supporting the bible, a crime of which our forefathers were not guilty of, and would have laughed at. Such faith is not what God had in mind when he praised the Bereans for searching out the scriptures to see if what the apostles were saying was true. Why were they praised for doing this if God wanted blind faith?

One has faith they will enter God's Holy Kingdom. Pictures have been painted through John's eyewitness account in Revelation. We take John's account in faith that he wrote what Jesus Christ revealed. No other account is written. Yet God's Word says 'in the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established'. We have one account, so we must believe that one account on blind faith.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make here. Did Jesus not give us a picture of heaven several times?

Faith is trusting that what is written in God's Word is true. Faith is trust. One cannot see trust Faith is the evidence and substance. You cannot see faith, you just have to believe.

Blind faith.

Faith is trust, but if you had never seen any evidence for the faith you have, such as the bible, or at worst a changed life because of what it teaches, then you would have never had faith.
No one believes anything without SOME evidence. Even hearing about a certain thing is evidence in itself. It is one witness. The bible has many witnesses, and there is yet to be one peice of emperical data provided on this planet which disproves one thing spoken in scripture. That faith is backed up by FACTS.

What about people who have no vision, such as myself? I cannot see. Is my faith that which I have seen? Or for a deaf person? Cannot hear the Word, but able to read. Is their faith something they have heard.

No, but it is still from the evidences provided for them. Even the deaf-mute can still communicate, such as with Helen Keller. Those who have no way of communicating I feel are like babies, in that God has a special provision for their salvation.

The hearing that produces faith is listening to the Spirit. Not what man says. Not what one can see. We walk by faith, not by sight.

YES, but it is ALSO supplemented by FACTS. Otherwise, since the Mormon claims he hears from God, and has faith in it, we know that he is in fact NOT hearing from God because of the FACTS behind what he claims he hears. We know that it is in direct opposition to the FACTS we are given, namely in the bible and those found in opposition to the Book of Mormon, which substantiates our claim and debunks his.

Surely you understand this now.

 

[jshurley04]

So then where is the substance and evidence that tells us which manuscripts are those preseved by God? And which ones are fakes that should not be given the time of day?

Why do we blindly choose one version/translation/manuscript over others? If it is by blind faith then I believe that the Methodists produced a gospel according to Peanuts some years back. Why not follow blindly to the Charlie Brown sect?

While faith is our basis for trusting what we have, we have to have faith that God has preserved His Word in the way that He has choosen. Scripture teaches us to try the spirits and I believe that part of the application to this instruction would be to go to God. Am I going to agree with everything that each of you do in connection to serving God? NO. However, I have faith that you are following as God has lead you in your heart and are reaching people with what ever Bible He has given you peace about. We should not have faith in man or faith in facts or even faith in words, we should ONLY have faith in God and His leadership.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The only FACT one needs is God's Word. To delve in other places other than God's Word to find proof of Jesus Christ proves one does not truly believe in Jesus Christ. Jesus said except we come to Him as little children, we shall not enter heaven.

One does not have to tell a child well, if you look at this archaeological evidence, or this history book, you will find record that there was reference of a man named Jesus. You tell a child Jesus existed and that He loves all who will come to Him, and that child, unless living amongst people who have brainwashed them to refuse to believe in Christ, that child will believe. A child believes things on Blind Faith.

Oh, and btw, the Bible is not a history book. It contains history, it contains law, it contains prophecy, it contains poetry. It contains all these, but it is the Word of God.

Read it and accept it with blind faith instead of having to check every thing out with other men's writings.

 

[Sularis]

the methodists did that?

dang - maybe Im confused but the one Im thinking about was rather well done! albeit a little small

If the methodists can do something decent like that maybe they arent demon spawn - like the charismatics, calvinists, and the rest of ya

PS - sarcasm
PPS - the book im thinking about although small was very good

 

[robycop3]

Standingfirm, I believe you know I wasn't speaking of physically seeing. And Mima, without SUBSTANCE and EVIDENCE, all we have is GUESSWORK, wishful thinking, and imagination.

Did JESUS prove Himself to men or not? Did He not preform mighty miracles, always crediting HIS FATHER for the power?

Did not God say the proof of His existence is the creation? Was such a statement ever credited to Zeus, Odin, or Vishnu? Deep inside, befire you were saved, did you not realize GOD IS, and is in charge? Didn't something...its longevity, archaeological proof , seeing the fulfillment of prophecy, etc....tell you God's word is true, while no other "religious writings" are true? You didn't just believe from guesswork, hoping you were right.