37818
Well-Known Member
We are talking about the resurrection, not merely the historical nature of Christianity. Tacitus is believed to not been born until about 56 A.D..
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How do you know anything?
- Thread starter 37818
- Start date
So a historian born in 1985 could not talk credibly about JFK? Or how do you know that there was a Sir Francis Drake?
37818
Well-Known Member
The text explicitly speaks of God's faith. God's absolute omniscience is in no way at issue. We are instructed to obtain God's faith for answered prayer. Meaning to know God's will in what we ask. Then the answer is absolutly certain.
37818
Well-Known Member
The witness of others. We either believe their witness or we do not. The Bible is the witness of others. It is also something else - the word from God, and self authenticating because it is the word of God.
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
OK, with that definition, belief is axiomatic, and as a noun synonymous. That is, knowledge is a belief.
From there, especially when it comes to God, we could complicate things considerably, even necessarily.
One could believe someone attributed the declaration to God, yet not believe God said it, or even believe in God. One could also believe God said it, yet not internalize it, or even get its significance.
I think I might switch to talking about realization at this point. But I won't try to go farther here. I'd only get lost.
I think the faith you speak of needs to be put into the context I presented and addressed in that light. You've taken a very small clip from my post and side tracked several issues I've raised concerning the origin of knowledge, influence and response, desires coming from human reasoning and God acting upon these desires wherein the cause of His blessings are seen as a relational response rather than a pre-determined cause and effect.
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
In this case, knowledge is belief in something that is true, or belief in something that is related to what is true. So, for example, I can believe that all of scripture is true, if some of it has been objectively proved. It does not mean that I believe it all, or even understand it all, or have even read it all. But again, belief is axiomatic, even synonymous with knowledge here. Much of the belief/knowledge requires only indirect support, and one can grow in it in several ways.
37818
Well-Known Member
You conflate God's omniscience with what He does not do in regards to evil. Evil cannot exist without good. And God, the infinite good God, did created evil only in that He created finite good which can be deprived (Isaiah 45:7, ". . . create evil: I the LORD do . . . ." The knowledge of good and evil that man obtained is God's knowledge (Genesis 3:22). And God is the infinite good.
37818
Well-Known Member
God after He created man good (Genesis 1:31) gave man one command, ". . . the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. . . ." -- Genesis 2:17. And in finite good man's disobedience obtained, causing finite good to become sinful by way of the knowledge of evil.
37818
Well-Known Member
God's omniscience of what is caused and its effect does not mean that God causes the thing. (James 1:13) God is infinitely good and cannot not be infinitely good.
It is the Determinist who conflates God’s Omniscience with evil, not I. Not in a million years would you hear me attribute evil to God, no evil can be said to be from God, zero, zilch, nada despite your proof-text, Isaiah 45:7, which you apparently believes proves otherwise. FYI, I would and most certainly do argue against the Classical Theological view that puts God’s knowledge in a box while claiming since God is Omniscient he must have pre-determined all things.
In no way does Gen 3:22 declare that man has obtained God’s knowledge. God’s knowledge is perfect as is His judgment, do you really think God is saying man has obtained this?! Quite the opposite, the message here is man being made in the image and likeness of God, who believed the lie of the Devil and wanted to be as God, IS NOT GOD, his knowledge do not compare to God's, and NOW with his knowledge of good and evil, which he gained of his own volitional will, man falls short of the perfectly good state in which God designed him. Man who was designed with sense, reason and intellect and willfully gained knowledge must NOW put his new gained judgment aside, because there is Only One God who determines/judges good from evil in the Kingdom of Heaven, and man must now just as freely take again the action of putting forth his hand to eat of the tree of life to live.
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
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37818
Well-Known Member
God knows but is not perpetrator every evil. God did cause the flood in which He spared Noah and his family and the distruction of Sodom and Gomorrah in which He spared Lot and of his family.
37818
Well-Known Member
Such an historian would rely on the witness of others just as we do on many issues and topics.
Exactly, and that is what Tacitus is credible along with many others from the ancient secular world.
37818
Well-Known Member
But the sole evidence of the resurrection of Christ is the Christian New Testament.
What link do you have about that?
37818
Well-Known Member
Here is the deal. Can you provide anyone evidence of the resurrection of Christ without making any direct or indirect reference to the New Testament claims? As far as I know there is none.
My position is Christianity stands and falls with the New Testament. It is a witness of others -- includeng God Himself, the New Testament being God's written word along with the OT.
Now Christianity stands and falls with OT Judaism. The Jewish Temple was destoryed in 70 A.D.. Either God of israel failed or Jesus is the Christ.
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What I am objecting to is that you are asking me to disprove one of your own unsubstantiated claims off the top of my head when I would have to do research to answer the question for which you have not provided any substantiation. It could be that one of the ancients said that Christians claimed that Jesus rose from the dead, certainly Josephus said that but it is disputed.
37818
Well-Known Member
The Baptist position as I know it, is that the sole Apostolic authority is the Christian New Testament.
That is not the issue at all. For example, it is often noted that all over the earth people have some sort of legend or fable that has to refer to Noah's Flood because it talks about how only a few people survived a flood. So if we can prove from history that there is a Pontius Pilate, for example, then we have more evidence for the foundation of Christianity as based upon historical fact.